Mini Normal 2141: The World of Tomorrow [Game over!]

[votato]

actually i dont know if a disloyal fruit vendor makes sense. unless you start asking from day 2 if people have fruit, then scum will kinda know something's up. thats a very strange role unless you know if the people got your fruit, in which case that is tantamount to a cop.

[votato]

Watcher isn't weak though

but if scum have a lot of power watcher and traffic analyst could work. if they dont have a lot of power voyeur still works.

[votato]

i dont like the way the claim was done. if i were a disloyal fruit vendor being forced to claim on day 3, id not reveal the disloyal portion, and ask the fruit recipients to claim whether they got fruit, and only reveal the disloyal portion after they said whether they had fruit.

[Quick]

i dont like the way the claim was done. if i were a disloyal fruit vendor being forced to claim on day 3, id not reveal the disloyal portion, and ask the fruit recipients to claim whether they got fruit, and only reveal the disloyal portion after they said whether they had fruit.

Again, it's sloppy because mav got nervous when Gamma got outed.

[votato]

yeah without claiming the disloyal part there was some utility in the role even after claiming. now the role is completely useless. mav is a good player right? theres no chance that he would mess up like that?

[votato]

i dont like the way the claim was done. if i were a disloyal fruit vendor being forced to claim on day 3, id not reveal the disloyal portion, and ask the fruit recipients to claim whether they got fruit, and only reveal the disloyal portion after they said whether they had fruit.

Again, it's sloppy because mav got nervous when Gamma got outed.

yeah this has got to be a fake claim

[Quick]

DID votato ever get fruit?

[Quick]

I’ll be honest, I had a slight scum read on Nauci. Anyone have a hypothesis on why it was her? Looking through her ISO she had votes on r2r and votato. She’s not the only suspecting those two. She also had 851 asking about GammaGooey that went unfulfilled before the hammer.

Looking at the votes on NPOM, I must think there was at least one scum voting there. (Yep, I was on that wagon too, I’m aware.) Quick’s case and post detailing his case I think is extremely hard for scum to fake and for him to learn hard on it, I can’t see him being scum. Blair piggybacks off this but has independent thoughts asking NPOM to scum hunt and town hunt which would suggest she was influenced by Quick’s case but did have her own reasons to suspect him. Atarashi had reason to suspect NPOM but that was very early in the game, so can’t say much about that as he’s disappeared. Dunnstral, R2R, and votato are the others and I’ve gotta think scum is most likely here.

Dunnstral

- I didn’t like the catch up and hammer. Read to me like a “sure, why not” vote. Reading the catch up, I couldn’t see conviction in a reason to hammer with the thought of NPOM flipping scum.

R2R

- I’ve gotta go back and reread the interaction between him and NPOM and see if I think this is TvT. I’m leaning a vote here right now with the flip of NPOM. The reason I won’t is cause I don’t trust my reads right now, speaking of which...

Votato

- so I was pretty vocal about reading votato as town. But with NPOM’s flip and looking through the ISOs of the voters’ this one I did have issue with, specifically the development of the NPOM vote. So 310 was awhile ago with the amount of posts this game has, but votato states here he feels strongly about Atarashi and won’t move his vote. He then flips to VP Baltar. Then again on NPOM. Seems like a drastic change from “not moving off Atarashi.” Of all the votes, this one seems to be the most hopping on a wagon. I still read the rest of his ISO as town, but the vote progression from resistance of moving his vote to willingly hopping on the NPOM wagon, I’m having serious doubts here and want a better read here.

VOTE: Vote: votato

Oh, didn't mean to quote Puppy in that post, but I did want to point out how awful that post was. Is anybody buying that first line?

im not buying any of it. who would want to vote for me

Me. But the Blair/R2R pairing makes waaaaay more sense than you/R2R.

UNVOTE: Votato

Blair’s wagon theory does make sense but I would pursue Puppy over GammaGooey here.

@VP Baltar: where does Puppy’s LAMIST post compare with mine?

Whoops, forgot to do this:
VOTE: ready2rock

Mav's vote progression D2...

[votato]

DID votato ever get fruit?

he already claimed that he gave fruit to dunnstral and midway. but didnt give them an opportunity to reveal whether they had fruit until they knew only scum would get fruit. so we have no clear whatsoever on either slot regardless of how mav flips (maybe a slight clear if mav!town = true, since neither of them picked up on the fruit crumbs)

[Dunnstral]

For various reasons, I think scum is EXCLUSIVELY within these spots:
Dunnstral
Hellbrooks
VP Baltar
puppy
Quick

Dunnstral

he was the first to hop onto the Gamma lynch right after Blair. I don’t think he has the grapes to bus his partner that early, but I’m not sure. So for now, he’s town in my book.

VP Baltar

he seems to actually be helping town out and trying to figure things out. Town read here. (And for what it’s worth, early game he asked for what abbreviations meant where if he was in a private chat, wouldn’t have done that? Sure, flimsy, but no reason real good reason why I think he’s scum).

As for the others....

Quick

he is almost impossible to read. He’s done massively scummy things but also pro town. His case on R2R I think is super hard to fake.

Puppy

he appeared to double down sorta on Gamma AFTER the hammer. I read Gamma as town as well, so I could see this.

And.....

hellbrooks

I think puppy/Quick, one is scum. I can’t see them both being scum. Hellbrooks of the Ayers I’ve narrowed down strikes me as most likely scum. He hasn’t offered much.

VOTE: hellbrooks

This post is kind of weird

You claim to have sent me disloyal fruit... which is kind of like an investigation result; why didn't you ask me if I received it at some point?

I see you saying grapes here though, which looks like another soft. Or was that you trying to get my attention?

[Quick]

@VP: I did lots of looking through Gamma’s posts as well. I feel pretty confident that R2R is absolutely town. The day 1 push of R2R does not strike me as a bus’ing of scum and then the day 2 pursuit of R2R absolves him in full for me.

Quick and Puppy coming up a lot and Gamma defends Puppy more than anyone I feel always reading him as town and seeming to defend him.

As for midway bear, 1190 is awkward right? The reads like a refusal to bus with the pedit section bus’ing as fast as possible. It reads almost too close to how Gamma was trying to form a fake claim to defend against Blair’s reveal. Thoughts on this?

VOTE: midway bear

UNVOTE: midway bear

For various reasons, I think scum is EXCLUSIVELY within these spots:
Dunnstral
Hellbrooks
VP Baltar
puppy
Quick

Dunnstral

he was the first to hop onto the Gamma lynch right after Blair. I don’t think he has the grapes to bus his partner that early, but I’m not sure. So for now, he’s town in my book.

VP Baltar

he seems to actually be helping town out and trying to figure things out. Town read here. (And for what it’s worth, early game he asked for what abbreviations meant where if he was in a private chat, wouldn’t have done that? Sure, flimsy, but no reason real good reason why I think he’s scum).

As for the others....

Quick

he is almost impossible to read. He’s done massively scummy things but also pro town. His case on R2R I think is super hard to fake.

Puppy

he appeared to double down sorta on Gamma AFTER the hammer. I read Gamma as town as well, so I could see this.

And.....

hellbrooks

I think puppy/Quick, one is scum. I can’t see them both being scum. Hellbrooks of the Ayers I’ve narrowed down strikes me as most likely scum. He hasn’t offered much.

VOTE: hellbrooks

yeah i doubt votato is fruit checker, I think he just used fruitless as an insult to me
we either get quick or votato today probably not hellbooks

UNVOTE: Hellbooks

I hate the votato pendulum. Up until the intent to hammer, I had votato as DEFINITELY town. Now I have him as null but scummy.

Also, bad news for you midway.... if votato isn’t the fruit checker, that means you’re not confirmed townie (unless someone does want to say how midway bear is fruitless). Votato messing up my reads.

Pretty much only votes/unvotes on Town from what I can tell...

[Quick]

DID votato ever get fruit?

he already claimed that he gave fruit to dunnstral and midway. but didnt give them an opportunity to reveal whether they had fruit until they knew only scum would get fruit. so we have no clear whatsoever on either slot regardless of how mav flips (maybe a slight clear if mav!town = true, since neither of them picked up on the fruit crumbs)

Ah, so he has pretty much zero conclusive evidence that you are Scum. Thanks. You've done good this game. Better than midway even, I would say.

[Dunnstral]

So Dunnstral, I do believe is town but that can be checked, so I’ll wait for confirmation on that spot but not a top priority for me based on how quick he was to jump onto the Gamma lynch in a non-bus’ing scenario.

IMO towny post if you take his claim into consideration

[Quick]

So Dunnstral, I do believe is town but that can be checked, so I’ll wait for confirmation on that spot but not a top priority for me based on how quick he was to jump onto the Gamma lynch in a non-bus’ing scenario.

IMO towny post if you take his claim into consideration

I'd rather you look at mav's stance on me than yourself to see how Townie mav really is.

[Dunnstral]

Why is his stance on you important though

[Quick]

Why is his stance on you important though

Because you are looking at a players stance on another player and not yourself. It would help the rest of Town to do those kinds of reads instead of reads based on yourself. Those kinds of reads don't really hold their weight because no one should just "trust" you are town and acting in "good faith".

But I don't really play the game based on who reads who what, never have... well, I did once and it didn't work out so well, so I ditched it. Point being, IF you are going to give reads based on reads other players have, they should be based on reads on other people and not yourself. Does a lot more for producing content as well. Otherwise things get static if everyone reads everyone else based on how people read themselves.

[Dunnstral]

But his read on me is important because of his claim

[Quick]

But his read on me is important because of his claim

It's still a read based on you about you. That was the point. Their read is important to you and only you if we use your logic. If we use my logic, then it's better to see how someone reads other players that are in the game so you can analyze how someone views other players in comparison to how you view them.

[mavsfan41]

So it’s entirely possible I fucked up the role, but having me just ask “hey, do y’all have fruit?” Without any type of confirmation whatsoever other than on my flip seems pretty insane. I mean, I claimed and some people still don’t buy it. So, yes, I assumed it would be some sort of “fruit checker” role if you would, that could give confirmation. Scum could lie and guess right and that’s it and it seems entirely possible. If somehow I tagged two scum and in the PT they discuss this and cut their losses and have one claim “yes” and the other say “no”, then you’d have town the wrong way without any confirmation whatsoever with that scenario potentially be disastrous for town.

@Dunnstral: yep, the grape comment was about tagging your during night 1

@Quick: my stance on you? I don’t know if you’re incredibly anti town or scum. If you do get me lynched, upon my flip, you’re fucked. It’s going to be pretty hard to get out of a lynch the following day, and that would suck quite a bit if you’re town. town!Quick come day 4 will be the biggest mislynch fodder ever. You pushed Blair into a claim then didn’t really buy that. 1238 & 1239 look horrible with Gamma’s flip. As for your Gamma link with me, not gonna lie, I had Gamma pegged for town to the point I did think a Blair/Dunn/R2R scenario was more likely than a Gamma scum scenario of any kind. So upon Gamma’s flip, yep, kinda fell apart as all my reads fell apart. Then I formed other reads with a possible Puppy/hellbooks or Quick/hellbooks or Quick/Puppy team until votato fucked my read and I potential fucked my role (but again, that was L-1 with intent to hammer) and the “hey, y’all have fruit” could’ve just been avoided altogether leading to nothing. There has to be some sorta complimentary role that can confirm whether or not players have fruit.

[Quick]

So it’s entirely possible I fucked up the role, but having me just ask “hey, do y’all have fruit?” Without any type of confirmation whatsoever other than on my flip seems pretty insane. I mean, I claimed and some people still don’t buy it. So, yes, I assumed it would be some sort of “fruit checker” role if you would, that could give confirmation. Scum could lie and guess right and that’s it and it seems entirely possible. If somehow I tagged two scum and in the PT they discuss this and cut their losses and have one claim “yes” and the other say “no”, then you’d have town the wrong way without any confirmation whatsoever with that scenario potentially be disastrous for town.

@Dunnstral: yep, the grape comment was about tagging your during night 1

@Quick: my stance on you? I don’t know if you’re incredibly anti town or scum. If you do get me lynched, upon my flip, you’re fucked. It’s going to be pretty hard to get out of a lynch the following day, and that would suck quite a bit if you’re town. town!Quick come day 4 will be the biggest mislynch fodder ever. You pushed Blair into a claim then didn’t really buy that. 1238 & 1239 look horrible with Gamma’s flip. As for your Gamma link with me, not gonna lie, I had Gamma pegged for town to the point I did think a Blair/Dunn/R2R scenario was more likely than a Gamma scum scenario of any kind. So upon Gamma’s flip, yep, kinda fell apart as all my reads fell apart. Then I formed other reads with a possible Puppy/hellbooks or Quick/hellbooks or Quick/Puppy team until votato fucked my read and I potential fucked my role (but again, that was L-1 with intent to hammer) and the “hey, y’all have fruit” could’ve just been avoided altogether leading to nothing. There has to be some sorta complimentary role that can confirm whether or not players have fruit.

Closer to the end of the game is generally where I do more cases...

[mavsfan41]

What happens if you don’t make it to end game cause you’re lynched immediately on day 4?

[Quick]

What happens if you don’t make it to end game cause you’re lynched immediately on day 4?

I'll risk it. Usually if I make it past D3 I am pretty good about not getting lynched. The longer the game goes on, the less chance there is of me getting lynched as a general rule.

[ready2rock]

Votato/mavs scumteam

Still plausible or out of the question?

[ready2rock]

To clarify

My thought in looking at this is that exactly one of these two are scum, and right now I trust votato moreso than mavs, but I'm willing to hear if other people think there are scenarios where they're both town or both scum

[Quick]

Votato/mavs scumteam

Still plausible or out of the question?

To clarify

My thought in looking at this is that exactly one of these two are scum, and right now I trust votato moreso than mavs, but I'm willing to hear if other people think there are scenarios where they're both town or both scum

Good thoughts.

How would you compare this with my thought that there is one Scum in VP/votato?