Mini Normal 2143 (Game over)

[Quick]

@quick, who can you clear, now and why? What the hell dude? That's coming out of nowhere.

Based on my notes...

I can clear...

Spoiler:

Sakura, Norwegian, Fred, Drew

[CooLDoG]

why though

[Quick]

why though

Because of the way firebringer has interacted with those people such that it is not SvS. Also, I have multiple of these interactions for each person. 3 is the minimum IIRC.

[Porkens]

What you read as town I read as null because I could imagine scum doing these exact things.

I've yet to see a post like what Mohad did made by scum, much less with such emotion, I know scum COULD do those things, but is that what's happening here? In theory a perfect scum player is capable of faking anything, I can tell that at the very least the emotion isnt faked, and considering Mohab's drop in activity and then his complaints about how confusing the game seems looks more like a towny that's struggling to scumhunt than scum that's trying to pretend being confused. Probably because i've had moments like those way back when i was a beginner I can imagine how Mohab's confusion came to be.

As for Firebringer is more of the fact that we know each other well, and while i usually have a hard time getting a definite read on FB, he's perfectly capable of abusing my weaknesses in order to pocket me, if he was scum, he'd have resorted to that much sooner than when he did.

I kinda thought the oposite

[Quick]

And I'm never giving you the post numbers so don't ask for that.

[CooLDoG]

So, you don't think they are bussing him basically. Okay, that makes since.

@pork, I also read mohab as scum, I don't find authentic town there. I could probably write that post in reverse. It does make me lessen my scum read on sakura though.


Which of the two (mohab/sakura) complains about the pace of the game and being lost? of the two that one is more scummy.

[Porkens]

like go through porkens posts on sakura early. He pushes sakura on a few things. It wasn't "ohh i scumread u" but it was enough to warrant like "i am worried about what u are doing". Then when sakura gets defensive he goes "Ohhh I am not even scumreading u though". When it is painfully obvious he is suspicious at least from his posts. Then eventually it just goes to townread. Its like bad.

Quite possible but that’s how I felt

[CooLDoG]

I just read the last 8 or so pages and my brain completely died. So can someone actually summarize the whole Drew-Sta VS Norwegian or Sakura or CoolDoG or whatever is going on here? What's with the wagon on Porkens, can I find actual reasons here?

I am honestly starting to get really lost, any idea which page I should start from to catch up to the current wagons?

Mohab, who I figured it was.

[Drew-Sta]

All this is from Cooldog at various points. Due to his quoting and my shit skills at posting, I'm just breaking it down.

Spoiler:

Town hunting hurts town in the early days because scum will be inclined to kill the stronger town reads. This leads to less info and harder later days when leads are less clear. Telling everybody essentially "I will not vote for this guy" makes it so that scum can't bandwagon on them, and signals that they should kill that strong read.

^^ commenting on 223 by Sakura

ANNNNND this is why meta is shit. Scum play around their town meta and then town play around their town meta. It means nothing. Meta defense on page 10 is also ridiculous. You are essentially claiming, "hay, at the start of the game I always do this. I did this, ergo I am town". If you ever draw scum you are going to do the exact same thing and make this defense. God, I wish I were a double voter.

^^ commenting on 228

Terrible erratic vote shifting once a wagon starts to fizzle onto the newest wagon that pops. No commitment to the reads that you claim to have.

^^ Commenting on 267 by Sakura.

what the hell is this? I'm honestly perplexed. In the same breath you say you are going to stick on the wagon, and that you want to hop off after a time. Angling for wagons and for claims. No legitmate scum hunting is going on with fire.

^^ commenting on 310 by FB

looking back this is fair. But it is odd that you are defending yourself based off of meta and not your actual in-game actions in themselves.

^^ commenting on 658 by Sakura

This is a chainsaw, correct? There were also some strange interactions earlier between norwegian and sakura and monab.

^^ commenting on the infamous 583 by Nor.

All the above I agree with.

Drew-sta's 465 Not a big fan here. It is basically only defending. No effort has yet been put on him catching scum. He has plenty of time to defend himself, but none to actually catch scum it seems.

465 - Defending takes far less time than scum hunting. At that point in the game I wasn't giving much attention to the game due to weekend.

I have expressed that I have a scum read on you. Mohab only has my vote on him. One vote will not produce as much activity in the game thread or reactions than if I went with another read which I hold to be more or less equal with another vote on them. You have a vote on you, so my voting for you will produce more activity than just leaving it to sit on mohab until other people vote for him... I don't want my vote to just sit there doing nothing.

677 This is scum hunting. I like it. Rightly or wrongly, it's an attempt to generate activity and conversation that will spur insight.

You are voting based upon a sample size of 1 with no counter factual evidence for him being scum.

683 - I agree, actually. Read all of that post. This was also my issue with Nor, but he has articulated it well. He gives a well reasoned argument. Grammar is a little skewy at times but we can't all be Rhodes Scholars.

685 - agree re Mohab

730 - brilliant post. Disects behaviour. Might not be all correct, but insightful and has a stance.

785 - reasons and gives credit to Fire despite thinking Fire is scum. Acknowledges rather than misrepresents.

There's a response to my wall in 1133:

I agree that post 122 is dumb. But you provide no read here. As our master Moazi says, "This is like throwing fire onto fire, and water onto a flood".

I don't necessarily agree that having a read is necessary off one piece of information. I think gathering information is more informative and then processing it at the end. I think in a linear manner, so don't 'read' necessarily as observe, record, then try to deduce. I get what you're saying though.

Do you get a scum read on Sakura from 148 or 165 or 170? Pick one, and only one.

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve here, but 148 pinged me and 165 / 170 are supporting evidence. So 148 then the other two equally? 170 is presumptive, 165 is identifying something I believe could be seen as a slip - how do they know they're scummy town?! Their intent is to try to see behaviour but they're speaking of something they can't really know, thus, it's quite suspicious.

Also @drew, does Porkins 181 count as scum hunting?

No. Simple observation of their active lurking. It leans town as a behaviour but isn't scum hunting per se. Not in my personal opinion.

On quick's 148, does that make sakura v porkins Town vs Town for you?

No, again. I'd argue Quick is probably right there, but it's a possible coincidence at this stage. If Porkins and Sakura are in Lylo, then I'd argue it's indicative.

496 and 495 you think that either Fire or Sakura are scum, correct?

I think Sakura is scum, yes, although I wouldn't bet firmly yet. I think FB leans there at some point too. FB went after me but never placed a vote. Nor jumped on without hesitation. So did Sakura. I'd argue that's scum movement due to the coordination - all three were 'on me' from an argument perspective. If you think someone is scum, you vote them. The speed of the escalation to L-2 was also of interest. I am always cautious when a lynch moves at light speed like that, especially when players are ripping in but not voting in line with their argument. The bullshit between FB and Sakura early on twigged too. The whole FB reading Sakura town.

So you think Sakura is town due to scum hunting?

No, I was sarcastically highlighting an inconsistency.

Quick's 979 979. Agree. Don't like drew there. Vote from quick is natural. Farken's vote doesn't strike me as odd either.

^^ [post]1210

Err, I do? I like, quoted him nearly a dozen times...

I actually think he's town. He comes in and blasts just about everyone except Pers, who simply hasn't posted yet. If he's scum, he's better than the rest of us and I will gladly celebrate his victory with him.

I think the problem people have with him is his grammar, and also that he comes in and has knocked around a few kids who think they're too cool for school - and they don't like that.

Rock on, CoolDog, rock on.

[CooLDoG]

Dudes, we have 6 days. We are on page 50. The current record for normals is 205 pages. Which we are on pace to beat. WE get on the high scores list at 167. For meta reasons I want to be on the record list twice instead of just once, because my terrible shortest game is slipping.

[Firebringer]

he's better than the rest of us

he is only better than me.

[Porkens]

The problem with drew is I’ve skimmed his iso twice and I still have no clue who he thinks is scummy. This is the burr that I feel when I run my mind over him. I have real feelings about norwuigie but I’m not sure exactly what they are. Yeah.

[Porkens]

The problem with drew is I’ve skimmed his iso twice and I still have no clue who he thinks is scummy. This is the burr that I feel when I run my mind over him. I have real feelings about norwuigie but I’m not sure exactly what they are. Yeah.

All this is from Cooldog at various points. Due to his quoting and my shit skills at posting, I'm just breaking it down.

Spoiler:

Town hunting hurts town in the early days because scum will be inclined to kill the stronger town reads. This leads to less info and harder later days when leads are less clear. Telling everybody essentially "I will not vote for this guy" makes it so that scum can't bandwagon on them, and signals that they should kill that strong read.

^^ commenting on 223 by Sakura

ANNNNND this is why meta is shit. Scum play around their town meta and then town play around their town meta. It means nothing. Meta defense on page 10 is also ridiculous. You are essentially claiming, "hay, at the start of the game I always do this. I did this, ergo I am town". If you ever draw scum you are going to do the exact same thing and make this defense. God, I wish I were a double voter.

^^ commenting on 228

Terrible erratic vote shifting once a wagon starts to fizzle onto the newest wagon that pops. No commitment to the reads that you claim to have.

^^ Commenting on 267 by Sakura.

what the hell is this? I'm honestly perplexed. In the same breath you say you are going to stick on the wagon, and that you want to hop off after a time. Angling for wagons and for claims. No legitmate scum hunting is going on with fire.

^^ commenting on 310 by FB

looking back this is fair. But it is odd that you are defending yourself based off of meta and not your actual in-game actions in themselves.

^^ commenting on 658 by Sakura

This is a chainsaw, correct? There were also some strange interactions earlier between norwegian and sakura and monab.

^^ commenting on the infamous 583 by Nor.

All the above I agree with.

Drew-sta's 465 Not a big fan here. It is basically only defending. No effort has yet been put on him catching scum. He has plenty of time to defend himself, but none to actually catch scum it seems.

465 - Defending takes far less time than scum hunting. At that point in the game I wasn't giving much attention to the game due to weekend.

I have expressed that I have a scum read on you. Mohab only has my vote on him. One vote will not produce as much activity in the game thread or reactions than if I went with another read which I hold to be more or less equal with another vote on them. You have a vote on you, so my voting for you will produce more activity than just leaving it to sit on mohab until other people vote for him... I don't want my vote to just sit there doing nothing.

677 This is scum hunting. I like it. Rightly or wrongly, it's an attempt to generate activity and conversation that will spur insight.

You are voting based upon a sample size of 1 with no counter factual evidence for him being scum.

683 - I agree, actually. Read all of that post. This was also my issue with Nor, but he has articulated it well. He gives a well reasoned argument. Grammar is a little skewy at times but we can't all be Rhodes Scholars.

685 - agree re Mohab

730 - brilliant post. Disects behaviour. Might not be all correct, but insightful and has a stance.

785 - reasons and gives credit to Fire despite thinking Fire is scum. Acknowledges rather than misrepresents.

There's a response to my wall in 1133:

I agree that post 122 is dumb. But you provide no read here. As our master Moazi says, "This is like throwing fire onto fire, and water onto a flood".

I don't necessarily agree that having a read is necessary off one piece of information. I think gathering information is more informative and then processing it at the end. I think in a linear manner, so don't 'read' necessarily as observe, record, then try to deduce. I get what you're saying though.

Do you get a scum read on Sakura from 148 or 165 or 170? Pick one, and only one.

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve here, but 148 pinged me and 165 / 170 are supporting evidence. So 148 then the other two equally? 170 is presumptive, 165 is identifying something I believe could be seen as a slip - how do they know they're scummy town?! Their intent is to try to see behaviour but they're speaking of something they can't really know, thus, it's quite suspicious.

Also @drew, does Porkins 181 count as scum hunting?

No. Simple observation of their active lurking. It leans town as a behaviour but isn't scum hunting per se. Not in my personal opinion.

On quick's 148, does that make sakura v porkins Town vs Town for you?

No, again. I'd argue Quick is probably right there, but it's a possible coincidence at this stage. If Porkins and Sakura are in Lylo, then I'd argue it's indicative.

496 and 495 you think that either Fire or Sakura are scum, correct?

I think Sakura is scum, yes, although I wouldn't bet firmly yet. I think FB leans there at some point too. FB went after me but never placed a vote. Nor jumped on without hesitation. So did Sakura. I'd argue that's scum movement due to the coordination - all three were 'on me' from an argument perspective. If you think someone is scum, you vote them. The speed of the escalation to L-2 was also of interest. I am always cautious when a lynch moves at light speed like that, especially when players are ripping in but not voting in line with their argument. The bullshit between FB and Sakura early on twigged too. The whole FB reading Sakura town.

So you think Sakura is town due to scum hunting?

No, I was sarcastically highlighting an inconsistency.

Quick's 979 979. Agree. Don't like drew there. Vote from quick is natural. Farken's vote doesn't strike me as odd either.

^^ [post]1210

Err, I do? I like, quoted him nearly a dozen times...

I actually think he's town. He comes in and blasts just about everyone except Pers, who simply hasn't posted yet. If he's scum, he's better than the rest of us and I will gladly celebrate his victory with him.

I think the problem people have with him is his grammar, and also that he comes in and has knocked around a few kids who think they're too cool for school - and they don't like that.

Rock on, CoolDog, rock on.

Like it’s cool that you dig arguing minutiae with everyone but do you have a readslist?

[Sakura Hana]

730 - brilliant post. Disects behaviour. Might not be all correct, but insightful and has a stance.

????

[CooLDoG]

I don't want to vote drew-sta. His response satisfied me for the moment. I do agree defense is easier than offense.

also,

Code: Select all

[post]post number[/post]

Generates a link to the post, ergo

Code: Select all

[post]155[/post]

generates:
155

[Sakura Hana]

Man I didnt know that quoting something and re-stating what it's in said quote was doing a "BRILLIANT POST"

[CooLDoG]

730 - brilliant post. Disects behaviour. Might not be all correct, but insightful and has a stance.

????

I laid down the objective fact pattern of the interactions in that post.

[CooLDoG]

here is the actual read from 731

So norweigan votes for a guy who agrees with his town read and is on the same wagon with someone he scum reads.

I probably messed this up in previous posts.

[NoPowerOverMe]

I'm pretty certain than almost all of Sakura, FB, CoolDog and Drew are town. I think we should townblock.

[Sakura Hana]

730 - brilliant post. Disects behaviour. Might not be all correct, but insightful and has a stance.

????

I laid down the objective fact pattern of the interactions in that post.

Well yes.
I dunno why just stating facts stated in said quotes is something worth so much praise, that's the thing.
You did do some analysis and you arrived to some read, but neither 730 nor 731 show the read, just the facts, and im confused as to why this is Brilliant.
Maybe im being nitpicky but i found it really weird.

[Drew-Sta]

A look at out little piggy-pig-pig.

Spoiler:

My hot take is that Sakura, despite being second highest in activity, has not scumhunted at all.

Any other hot takes?

Sure! Read on.

My hot take is that Sakura, despite being second highest in activity, has not scumhunted at all.

How very observant of you.

This is the sort of thing I consider for SvS, FTR.

I can definitely see that.

Oh hey, that's 2 soft shades already, any more takers?

Quite defensive, still not scumhunting.

My hot take is that Sakura, despite being second highest in activity, has not scumhunted at all.

How very observant of you.

This is the sort of thing I consider for SvS, FTR.

That’s interesting. I was classifying them using an entirely different instrument of measurement. Namely the towniness of the slots depend entirely on which one looks the least like a disgusting manpig.

Deflection. (Partner?)

Cool

Scumminess noted.

So I ask you, if I were scum why wouldnt I at least pretend to scumhunt?

Would you?

This appears to be tunnelling.

Cool

Scumminess noted.

So I ask you, if I were scum why wouldnt I at least pretend to scumhunt?

Wifom much?

There's WIFOM and there's things that make no sense.
So either I'm scum imitating my town game of townhunting over scumhunting, or I'm town.
No matter how much you ask me to hunt for scum in the "normal" way, That's not how I like to play, if you think that's scummy of me then sure go ahead and lynch me, that wont change how I play because I dont have fun playing that way.

These don’t jive. First you imply that you would pretend to scumhunt as scum. Then you claim you’d imitate your tow game by town hunting. Why did you make these contradicting statements?

I actually agree with this.

vote:porkens

sakura's point about shading without voting or even FOS is good, and firebringer is probably town.

Why is her point about shading good?

shading people without calling them scummy or voting them does nothing except increase distrust between the town members. the fact that you even said "i never called you scum" after the shading is also very bad.

I don’t buy this. My “very observant” post about Sakura was scum hunting, and it led to useful discussion Through which we could develop our reads. I factually stated that I did not call her scum. That has no bearing on whether I think she or her actions are scummy. I’m not casting about trying to make people look scummy. I am asking direct questions and stating my thoughts in an effort to further the game state.

Your argument seems disingenuous to me.

It wasn't scum hunting. You nudged someone repeatedly for not scum hunting. You gave no evidence or insight to why it might be scum behaviour. At this point, I think you lose credibility by your own standards.

The thing about Pig is he's swapped around a lot with no care for expressing why. There's a couple of different WIFOM reasons:

1. He's town, trying to look suspicious to survive to end game
2. He's not town, and he's just got his cod out swinging in the wind
3. He's town who is not paying attention

The issue I have, which makes me feel a little like 2 is possible, is he hasn't provided any scum reads but I note in 1237 he's asking for a read list, and claims my lack of it is a scum tell, but by his own standards, he'd be scum too. So he's throwing shade.

I tend to find people doing that are not doing it with good intent.

His flip flopping and lack of explanation is his worst behaviour right now.

I'd argue options 2 and 3 are possible.

[CooLDoG]

The problem with drew is I’ve skimmed his iso twice and I still have no clue who he thinks is scummy. This is the burr that I feel when I run my mind over him. I have real feelings about norwuigie but I’m not sure exactly what they are. Yeah.

he thinks sakura is scummy, he just said that. Also that norweegan is scummy, but I think he is parroting my reasons. He admits his vote was for activity reasons. But it came after the fact imho. I want either the classical music guy or mohab atm. I'm not as hot on a fire wagon. I don't want to vote drew-sta this day. Too early in the day for me to be compromise voting.

[Quick]

I'm pretty certain than almost all of Sakura, FB, CoolDog and Drew are town. I think we should townblock.

Stop being useless, thanks.

[NoPowerOverMe]

I'm pretty certain than almost all of Sakura, FB, CoolDog and Drew are town. I think we should townblock.

Stop being useless, thanks.

Stop namecalling, thanks.

[Firebringer]

useless is a terrible name. I prefer to name my first child "Shit" so when people call him a piece of shit he can say "i am a whole shit, sir"