Newbie 2007: Air [game over!]

[Poyzin]

There is no winner or loser here, as much as Quick would like to insist that he won. Typically, I’d do the same, as this IS the guy who iconically said “you’re more of a SR because you think the Earth is round”, which is going in my sig after the game ends anyway (anonymously of course, as I don’t intend to give Quick any credit). So yeah. I’ll only address this ordeal as a stalemate going forward and maybe I’ll lift this restriction in the future if I’m not NK’ed.

[Poyzin]

(Hey spectators! The rest of the players aren’t going to like that I’m doing this, but I can live with a bit (or a bunch idc) of a scumread.)

[QuantumQuasar]

Quick (3): NotAJumbleOfNumbers, Poyzin
GeorgeBailey (2): teacher
Poyzin (2): QuantumQuasar, Quick
NotAJumbleOfNumbers (1): GeorgeBailey, gibus

Deadline: 7 days, 11 hours, 31 minutes.

page 12 quick L-1 offsuit jumble marashu, the unvotes town lean




Poyzin



gibus
QuantumQuasar
Quick (SE)


GeorgeBailey (SE)


teacher (SE)

On page 12 with quick at L-1, the unvotes of offsuit jumble marashu are town indicative

Poyzin could be town with Quick
teacher town lean

between gibus bailey, bailey

Q

VOTE: GeorgeBailey

Scum is much more easily able to read other players as town, as they KNOW who is actually town.

This feels like a bus.

Could you expand on why you think this is a bus?

Too much effort too early to be a real read. More or less.

This is lame. Town can put in effort early as well. You’re at two strikes.

(This is an empty threat)

Are you and 72 going to lynch me because I caught you?

This feels super defensive. I'm voting for QQ right now and am questioning you because I got an early bad ping, and I'm not liking what I'm seeing from you since. Every comment just feels really sarcastic or antagonistic and not really conducive to game-solving.

VOTE: Quick

QQ is Town. And so am I. Good luck with your game though.

Who's the best player here, imho it's either Notajumbleofnumbers or offsuit and they haven't posted yet

This post never comes from scum.

I actually liked this as a reason to Townlean both.

Also Jumble, you forgot Teacher in your readslist.

Teacher - Strong townlean, is really constructive with his posts

(slip?)

jumble teacher

VOTE: GeorgeBailey

[Poyzin]

Was there any reason you voted for GB twice or was that a mistake?

[NotAJumbleOfNumbers]

That looks like a accidentally posted draft ngl

[Quick]

@QQ,

I asked you a question, can you answer it?

Why is The Scum pool in GB/gibus AND NAJM/teacher?

[Quick]

Why is The Scum pool in GB/gibus AND NAJM/teacher?

Specifically, NAJM/teacher.

[QuantumQuasar]

@QQ,

I asked you a question, can you answer it?

Why is The Scum pool in GB/gibus AND NAJM/teacher?

On how listening to yourself provides feedback to what you're saying when one isn't cognizant of awareness of course that's game related, consider the incessant posts between you and poyzin

Jumble voted who he likes from natural feel and voting him because you don't like that might be scum indicative

Post #214 (ISO) » 25 May 2020 07:32

In post 212, QuantumQuasar wrote:
Notajumbleofwords and teacher stayed silent, I don't know teacher


We both have more posts than you and I posted several times after you said I was silent in 160. What point are you trying to make?

teacher seems clear because he wouldn't associate with jumble in referring to him and teacher as "we" and "both"

gibus voting for jumble wouldn't associate him with jumble

[Quick]

@QQ,

I asked you a question, can you answer it?

Why is The Scum pool in GB/gibus AND NAJM/teacher?

On how listening to yourself provides feedback to what you're saying when one isn't cognizant of awareness of course that's game related, consider the incessant posts between you and poyzin

Jumble voted who he likes from natural feel and voting him because you don't like that might be scum indicative

Post #214 (ISO) » 25 May 2020 07:32

In post 212, QuantumQuasar wrote:
Notajumbleofwords and teacher stayed silent, I don't know teacher


We both have more posts than you and I posted several times after you said I was silent in 160. What point are you trying to make?

teacher seems clear because he wouldn't associate with jumble in referring to him and teacher as "we" and "both"

gibus voting for jumble wouldn't associate him with jumble

Thanks.

[QuantumQuasar]

*gibus voting for jumble when bailey voted for jumble doesn't associate gibus with bailey

I'm more a target than you Poyzin because on N1 the most newbie town lean is going to be targeted

[QuantumQuasar]

UNVOTE: because out of RVS

As a lesser but still impactful point, I also disagree with the town points awarded to Quick. For one, giving town points is in no way townie in and of itself, and there were already problems with Quick’s hasty rationale. However, GB giving town points to Quick after a total of 1 game-related post by Quick is already enough to raise alarm bells. I feel comfortable moving my vote out of RVS and towards someone who has a good chance of flipping scum.

I promise to follow Poe's law from now on.

That was a cheeky comment lmao. I was waiting for someone to continue the chain. I agree that Quick's.....

Quick

(sorry) assumption that active = Townie is too early.

But I don't think that usually comes from scum. Scum usually Null reads everyone so they can slide by without any resistance. And then "Null-scum" their partner in case they get lynched.

^this. There isnt much scum motivation to breezing into a thread, giving a quick townread, and disappearing. It felt careless/uncalculated. Thats why its a town ping.

I don't know about you, but there's a lot of motivation for doing that for me. It:
- doesn't take much effort
- shows that you have an opinion

It looks like Quick is being scumread for his style of play, and not for being scummy. I don't like the wagon on him.
Jumble seemed opportunistic hopping on the wagon (#197), and his reason was identical to 72's (#121). I can see the low effort vote coming from scum.
#279 needs an explanation.

VOTE: NotAJumbleOfNumbers

Marashu is quite silent but that could work to his advantage

town lean more gibus than bailey, see bailey might have experience in spotting and low effort is not scum indicative because someone is expecting that the homework is already done for a TL;DR recap even when one is expected to do one's own homework and to trust only self

I don't see how low effort votes are bad because whoever is scum would just interject and throw a bone to keep a momentum of uncertainty going while encouraging to be agreed with

[Quick]

BTW, QQ is the best player in this game.

[Quick]

BTW, If Poyzin flips red, look at QQ for details.

[Marashu]

Alright, I'm caught up now.

That TL on Poyzin is still present; this is probably my biggest TL right now.
The Poyzin/Quick fight I think is pretty disruptive in trying to read what other people are thinking, because of how much it's dominating the day. The part of 151 that focused on Poyzin was a lot of AtE and didn't really address any of the points in those posts. I can't tell if Quick is antagonizing Poyzin on purpose to generate reactions (the last game I was in had a lot of reaction tests in it from town players), but I really don't think this is SvS, which means that at least one scum is likely taking advantage of this fight.

VOTE: 72offsuit

• Voting because of player behaviour and not because of arguments (121 and 131 where the reasoning is because of sarcasm and abrasiveness), which suggests not trying to solve the game
  
• This defense is 100% WIFOM:

  4. Deja vu from last game.
  How likely do you think that scum is to chainsaw a scum-buddy with one vote on them in the first 10 pages or so?

Also, 285 - Your own words put it best:

Explain.
You can't throw out a statement like this without clarifying.

[Quick]

On how listening to yourself provides feedback to what you're saying when one isn't cognizant of awareness of course that's game related, consider the incessant posts between you and poyzin

BTW, this implicates QQ if Poyzin flips read.

Reason being is that Poyzin is all over the place with accusing me of such and such. Yet QQ never takes sides. He actually only mentions me and not Poyzin. It

could

be because QQ knows I am more aware of what I am doing than poyzin is. That's just one theory though and ASSUMES Poyzin is Town since QQ really doesn't have any reasons for why Poyzin is Town, which is Scummy af if Poyzin is Scum because it's hard for Scum to TR their teammates with legitimate reasons.

What QQ said about the people unvoting me is a good Townie look. I wouldn't put it past 72 to do something like that as Scum, but beyond that, it's gravy. IDK if QQ said NAJM was Town for unvoting me or not from recall, but unless NAJM unpacks their reasoning for why I am Scum I'm going to have a hard time believing that there isn't Scum in NAJM/72.

So I can potentially see Scum in: NAJM/72 And/Or 72/GB And/Or NAJM/Poyzin, but Poyzin has a lot more Scum equity than anyone else in the game by a mile.

So I will keep my vote where it is.

teacher is my top TR right now I think.

[Quick]

I miss calculated earlier, so I made a new list:

NAJM+, GB=, 72+
teacher+
gibus- >Null
QQ+
Poyzin-

[Datisi]

Official Vote Count 1.04

---

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Lynching

Quick

(2): Poyzin, NotAJumbleOfNumbers

GeorgeBailey

(2): teacher, QuantumQuasar

NotAJumbleOfNumbers

(2): GeorgeBailey, gibus

Poyzin

(1): Quick

72offsuit

(1): Marashu

Not Voting

(1): 72offsuit

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-06-02 18:20:00).

Mod notes:

• ...

[/area]

[Poyzin]

I’m inclined to think that Marashu is town; his last post was completely logical and rational. However, it’s going to be understandably difficult to read him that way because he’s been limiting himself with what he posts, so it’s hard to say if Marashu can continue with this mindset. 72 is an odd choice to vote for, but i ya whatever atm and I’m alright with Marashu’s vote there. It’s based with a followable rationale so we’re good there for now.

[Poyzin]

but i ya whatever atm

it’s* whatever atm

[72offsuit]

How likely do you think that scum is to chainsaw a scum-buddy with one vote on them in the first 10 pages or so?

Seems like an irrelevant question to me. I don't see why it would be any less likely than any other time..

Do you think scum is just as likely, or more likely, to chainsaw their scum partner with 1 vote on them on page 10,
relative to for example, page 25 nearing lynch deadline, with their scum buddy on 3 votes?

[Quick]

How likely do you think that scum is to chainsaw a scum-buddy with one vote on them in the first 10 pages or so?

Seems like an irrelevant question to me. I don't see why it would be any less likely than any other time..

Do you think scum is just as likely, or more likely, to chainsaw their scum partner with 1 vote on them on page 10,
relative to for example, page 25 nearing lynch deadline, with their scum buddy on 3 votes?

I really don't understand this line of questioning. I gave my answer once already. Do you expect a different response the second time around? Scum can and will be unpredictable at time to save their own ass. If something warrants a chainsaw, they will utilize that tool. If I was actually on to something, I would expect Scum to give me a hard time. Can you see that? Y/N?

In any case, you are like 50% for Scum equity at this point. Do you realize that? The fact you have one vote shows someone else might be seeing what I am seeing. Do you get that or naw?

[72offsuit]

I don;t normally like playing as scum.

But you do this game, amirite?

Why no response to this? You can joke with GB because you have history with him but you can't with me? Okay... Nice tryharding Scum...

I also wouldn’t answer such an obviously loaded question from you, but we can hear what 72 has to say.

You two both SUCK at missing details which is REALLY convenient. I said you didn't mention the word

tryharding

yet you are still pushing me? Please, this game is done already...

Maybe if you actually convincingly elaborated on exactly WHY "tryharding" is scum-indicative, and illustrated how poyzin's "tryharding" furthers
!scumPoyzin's agenda, you would get a productive discussion.

[Quick]

I don;t normally like playing as scum.

But you do this game, amirite?

Why no response to this? You can joke with GB because you have history with him but you can't with me? Okay... Nice tryharding Scum...

I also wouldn’t answer such an obviously loaded question from you, but we can hear what 72 has to say.

You two both SUCK at missing details which is REALLY convenient. I said you didn't mention the word

tryharding

yet you are still pushing me? Please, this game is done already...

Maybe if you actually convincingly elaborated on exactly WHY "tryharding" is scum-indicative, and illustrated how poyzin's "tryharding" furthers
!scumPoyzin's agenda, you would get a productive discussion.

You are STILL doing it. You are piggy backing on Poyzin's misreps to try and state why you are not Scum.

My point was never that tryharding is inherently Scummy (or Townie for that matter) but based on how Poyzin reacted to being called Townie for tryharding, which they make exactly zero mention of. They made the point of fact about my progression and how it was bad rather than actually addressing the real issue which is why are they looking for Town cred for tryharding? Still remains to be seen that they are NOT doing that and all evidence points to the contrary at worst or is an argument from silence at best from Poyzin's perspective. I really don't see how two people can goof this up so bad without there being something intertwining them both or for completely fluke reasons they both have the same perspective on something that should be perfectly apparent to TOWN what my point was.

I feel I should just start quoting my case over and over at this point because this is a serious lack of effort from you or you are just Scum here. I have the SAME DAMN ISSUE with Poyzin which is that they are not actually thinking about what I am saying and are just spitting off things that sound like they defeat my point but they actually end up making them look really really bad.

And this has historically been a problem for me in the past in that I can most certainly get Scum tells from most people who don't actually think about what I am saying. As it is now, I like my vote until someone can explain how Poyzin's reaction there was actually Towny and not full of agenda and BS misreps.

[Poyzin]

I’ve decided that from this point forward, I’m going to act anti-town an no longer interact with Quick in any capacity.

I must be really bad at this, but the temptation got to me, so I'm going to respond to Quick again because I caught a question that he never asked me yet, which really pissed me off because I've already articulated my thoughts on the matter. Regardless, I plan on this being a one-off post for now, because I haven't yet said anything today. I promise that the rest of my content will be about other players.

They [Poyzin] made the point of fact about my progression and how it was bad rather than actually addressing the real issue which is why are they looking for Town cred for tryharding?

I'm not. You're fundamentally off your rocker. Activity is completely NAI, and what you perceive to be tryharding is me just playing the game. "Tryharding" is may be one the stupidest reason to townread someone or scumread someone, and I don't expect anybody here to truly be that daft and use it as an excuse. If anything, people should townread me because I make sense and have a townie mindset, not because I'm the top poster. Quick, if you have read basically any of early game, you'd know that's exactly how I feel about activity and how "tryharding" is never a logical reason to determine someone's alignment, much less demand a TR. I'm not demanding any TR, and I wouldn't mind being SR if it meant that you'd stop it with your bogus conjecture and your condescending rants. I'm still a player in this game, and no offense, but you're doing a poor job with articulating your thoughts to the rest of us. #396 proves that it's not just me here.

Spoiler:

If you're curious to why I remained silent to a chunk of your early game comments, I decided to not answer because I didn't want to give you the satisfaction of a response. The reason being is that you were so obviously baiting, and none of your questions were actually that helpful, because anything I could tell you could so easily be replicated by scum, so there would be no point in responding to you at all.

Luckily, I'm glad I could overturn the crux of your argument. Unless, of course, you don't think I have; I've already covered that there is still no evidence of me deliberately misrepresenting you, nor am I fishing for a TR by any means, and it's unclear if there are any remaining grievances left that have not been addressed. Anywho, I intend to move forward by voting for Jumble. While I said I liked some of their posts in the past, it was purely on a "that's what I wanted to hear" basis and not because I thought they were townie. It's still a scumlean on that front.

UNVOTE: Quick
VOTE: Jumble

[Poyzin]

@72offsuit, join me to put Jumble at L-1