Newbie 2004: Trash Panada Hour. Redux! GAME OVER

[lilith2013]

Freddie can be town here being propped up by Scum!Vota who is white knighting the shit out of Freddie. Freddie hasnt done anything that is going to shed light on Votas alignment.

I don't think this is true. I don't think scum Votato would double down so hard on Town!Freddie. I think this behavior would make more sense if they were scum together. But I don't think he would actively tarnish a fairly good standing in the eyes of most players to stop a mislynch.

You think it makes more sense for scumvota to double down on defending scumfreddie, while scumvota wouldnt defend townfreddie as much?

I understand that if they're both scum Votato has kind of thrown the game by being so dedicated. But I can also see the progression making more sense if they are scum then if Freddie was town.

Why would scum white knight? To win an ally and/or to look good when that person flips town. No offense but Freddie doesn't seem to be that helpful of an ally, and multiple players are calling for Votato's head now even BEFORE Freddie flips. So either way it seems like it would be much easier and better for Scum!Votato to let the mislynch happen rather than stick his neck out in the first place. To me Votato starting down this road and finding it difficult to give up is if they're scum together.

imo it’s actually the other way around. If scum sees their partner about to be lynched, they probably wouldn’t risk hard defending someone because they would automatically be associated with their partner once their partner flips. Scum would be more likely to see where the general zeitgeist is headed and try to blend in by also turning on their partner.

[Formerfish]

To me Votato starting down this road and finding it difficult to give up is if they're scum together.

Ok, cool, so we agree on most of the important stuff, mind stepping off my dick now?

[lilith2013]

I guess it could go either way, just depends on how the scum strategized

[lilith2013]

@mod, shouldn’t freddie have been prodded by now? It’s been 2 days and 9.5 hours since she last posted

[Nauci]

if freddie flips town, however remote that possibility, votato should be powerlynched the following day

Is there a typo in this or are you saying that only scum Vota would be able to have that sure of a read on town Freddie?

Ohhhhh

I guess that makes some sense but I'm not sure why scumtato would want to stick his neck that far out even if this was the case?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Right, but he's been refused that town cred for the majority of the time he's been Freddie. Like it has gotten to the point you want Votato dead BEFORE Freddie. To me this desperation makes more sense in BOTH being scum because he knows that if either of them flips at this point its game over. While I think a white-knighting Vota would have an easier time (and has been given multiple opportunities) walking away.

P-edit: Hey Fish, why you being a dick? Why does being questioned piss you off so much? I'm trying to learn here. Learn how you, and why you think what you do. So I can 1: get insight into your motives and alignment and 2: fucking learn how to play, which is why I am here. Like fuck, dude it's a game, and talking to you an Osuka for more than five seconds makes me miserable. Is it part of the fun for you two to make other players feel stupid and shitty?

[lilith2013]

Right, but he's been refused that town cred for the majority of the time he's been Freddie. Like it has gotten to the point you want Votato dead BEFORE Freddie. To me this desperation makes more sense in BOTH being scum because he knows that if either of them flips at this point its game over. While I think a white-knighting Vota would have an easier time (and has been given multiple opportunities) walking away.

Okay that makes sense, I agree in this case

[lilith2013]

if freddie flips town, however remote that possibility, votato should be powerlynched the following day

Is there a typo in this or are you saying that only scum Vota would be able to have that sure of a read on town Freddie?

Ohhhhh

I guess that makes some sense but I'm not sure why scumtato would want to stick his neck that far out even if this was the case?

Does this mean you think votato is town?

[Formerfish]

@mod, shouldn’t freddie have been prodded by now? It’s been 2 days and 9.5 hours since she last posted

Yes, at 36 hours in newbies people should be prodded.

[Formerfish]

I'm sure that Vota can provide for her whereabouts for the last 2 and a half days, just let him decode his notebook and he can go minute by minute.

[Formerfish]

While I think a white-knighting Vota would have an easier time (and has been given multiple opportunities) walking away.

Actually this makes sense to me now, vota would want to make a show of defending freddie, but really would want freddie to die so vota could reap the cred.

[Formerfish]

P-edit: Hey Fish, why you being a dick? Why does being questioned piss you off so much? I'm trying to learn here. Learn how you, and why you think what you do. So I can 1: get insight into your motives and alignment and 2: fucking learn how to play, which is why I am here. Like fuck, dude it's a game, and talking to you an Osuka for more than five seconds makes me miserable. Is it part of the fun for you two to make other players feel stupid and shitty?

I'm not youre just reading me though dick glasses.

Imagine im one of your good friends and have known each other for years and are already at the point where we rag on each other and shit.

Its hard for me to explain, but im not the same way out of game as i am in game. People assume that my playstyle dictates my personality, but the playstyle is completely an ingame thing.

If you want to accuse me of being a dick then quote what you are taking issue with, because my level of tolerance for shit talking is apparently much higher than most.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Lilith between Freddie and Votato who would you want flipped first? And if one flipped town would you still want the other lynched?

[Formerfish]

Whoa whoa tux, hold on there, werent you reading Vota's posts? Lil is on his side, you should be asking her who she wants to lynch between osuka and I.

[Nauci]

Fish why are you just coaching his play right now?

I'm not.

And if I were scum with him why would I be doing it here and not in the scum PT?

It really sounds like you are. You're carefully laying out how Osuka can conduct themselves in a better more productive way. I don't think you've talked to any of the new players like this, so it's really weird that you're doing it for an experienced one. Like, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here? As for scum PT, I don't know, it's all Wifom.

This line of thinking is absurd to me?

Like, there is every reason for town to want a player who is being extremely anti-town but they think is in fact town to stop being counter productive? Wouldn't scum want the kerfuffling to escalate?

[lilith2013]

Whoa whoa tux, hold on there, werent you reading Vota's posts? Lil is on his side, you should be asking her who she wants to lynch between osuka and I.

lmaoooooo

@Lilith between Freddie and Votato who would you want flipped first? And if one flipped town would you still want the other lynched?

Probably votato, since I’ve been scumreading him long before this whole freddie fiasco started, and he’s the one doing the defending. Freddie on the other hand hasn’t said anything about votato. So to some extent a votato flip will give us information on freddie, whereas a freddie flip doesn’t necessarily. Like if freddie flips town, votato could have been defending her regardless of whether he’s town or scum; while a townflip on votato would - well, not clear freddie, but it removes the doubt that people have on his motivations for defending her.

One flipping town doesn’t necessarily impact the independent parts of scumreads on the living player, just the association. That is, if votato flips town, that doesn’t erase scummy things that freddie did, or vice versa; the part that is invalidated with a townflip is where they were scummy because of their interactions with each other. I’d have to reevaluate my read at that point to remove the influence of any associations, and I assume by that point we’d have more information, so I couldn’t tell you for sure. Votato townflip -> town!freddie is probably more likely than freddie townflip -> town!votato though, based on what I said above.

[lilith2013]

To rephrase the last sentence in English, it’s more likely that freddie is town once we know votato is town than votato being town once we know that freddie is town.

[Nauci]

so nauci, what happened? you had me convinced his slot was scum. i was really surprised by the result; bass' game/behavior may have been an anomaly.

This quote kinda takes on a different light when you look at how Vota was trying to deflect blame from Freddie to me. Freddie is doing that himself here by throwing it back to Nauci and blamed her for his sheep vote being on a townie.

I mean, that's not even how the wagons went between them. It wasn't like Freddie had a sr on waves, they were the major wagons with a few vanity votes on vota and Freddie isnt going to vote for himself, so this weird retcon where it's all Naucis fault seems very opportunistic by attempting to absolve himself of a vote to mislynch.

Retcon? Did you miss the post from Day 1 where Freddie super hammed it up that they were sheeping me on my meta-read of Brass?

Like, 1057 was so... extra? That I noted it as "is this scum absolving themselves of responsibility for voting for the lynch?" I commented on this in 1322 at start of day.

[Formerfish]

Retcon? Did you miss the post from Day 1 where Freddie super hammed it up that they were sheeping me on my meta-read of Brass?

Like, 1057 was so... extra? That I noted it as "is this scum absolving themselves of responsibility for voting for the lynch?" I commented on this in 1322 at start of day.

Listen, im stoned just about all the time, its the only thing that keeps the demons and voices at bay, so just be glad that i can string together a coherent thought in a single post for the most part without losing focus and making it a very different post.

[lilith2013]

I think you guys are trying to the same thing

[lilith2013]

I think you guys are trying to say the same thing

Ebwop

[Nauci]

Nauci, I'm going to need you to explain your vote to me in detail.

Sorry I'm so late responding to this, but I said my reasoning when I voted there. I need to sort that slot. On day 1, I had a null read because some of her behaviors pinged me as scummy, but I followed her train of thought in many of the posts she made so I had just as many reasons to townread her. Since I had strong scum reads of others, I put her on my Sort-On-Day-2 list. She hadn't participated a whole lot by the end of day 1, and hadn't contributed much thus far in day 2, and I thought that she would if we cranked up the pressure. I saw that she has post a lot more but haven't caught up that far yet and will evaluate when I get there.

[Formerfish]

You dont have an issue voting for someone who hadnt really checked in after a night where we avoided a night kill?

[votato]

Freddie can be town here being propped up by Scum!Vota who is white knighting the shit out of Freddie. Freddie hasnt done anything that is going to shed light on Votas alignment.

I don't think this is true. I don't think scum Votato would double down so hard on Town!Freddie. I think this behavior would make more sense if they were scum together. But I don't think he would actively tarnish a fairly good standing in the eyes of most players to stop a mislynch.

why would i not tarnish a reputation to stop a mislynch? we get 3 mislynches. if im 95% sure that someone is town, ill do whatever i can to stop that lynch. town SHOULD do that. how about we try something here? why dont we listen to me, just for today. if we hit scum, then im right and myself and freddie are cleared. if im wrong we lynch me tomorrow and at that point it doesnt matter that we lose because you all are about to powerlynch me and freddie and lose anyway.

[Formerfish]

why would i not tarnish a reputation to stop a mislynch? we get 3 mislynches. if im 95% sure that someone is town, ill do whatever i can to stop that lynch. town SHOULD do that. how about we try something here? why dont we listen to me, just for today. if we hit scum, then im right and myself and freddie are cleared. if im wrong we lynch me tomorrow and at that point it doesnt matter that we lose because you all are about to powerlynch me and freddie and lose anyway.

I think you have severely overestimated your amount of juice in this game.

Hint: you don't have any.