Newbie 2007: Air [game over!]

[Quick]

I’ve decided that from this point forward, I’m going to act anti-town an no longer interact with Quick in any capacity.

I must be really bad at this, but the temptation got to me, so I'm going to respond to Quick again because I caught a question that he never asked me yet, which really pissed me off because I've already articulated my thoughts on the matter. Regardless, I plan on this being a one-off post for now, because I haven't yet said anything today. I promise that the rest of my content will be about other players.

They [Poyzin] made the point of fact about my progression and how it was bad rather than actually addressing the real issue which is why are they looking for Town cred for tryharding?

I'm not. You're fundamentally off your rocker. Activity is completely NAI, and what you perceive to be tryharding is me just playing the game. "Tryharding" is may be one the stupidest reason to townread someone or scumread someone, and I don't expect anybody here to truly be that daft and use it as an excuse. If anything, people should townread me because I make sense and have a townie mindset, not because I'm the top poster. Quick, if you have read basically any of early game, you'd know that's exactly how I feel about activity and how "tryharding" is never a logical reason to determine someone's alignment, much less demand a TR. I'm not demanding any TR, and I wouldn't mind being SR if it meant that you'd stop it with your bogus conjecture and your condescending rants. I'm still a player in this game, and no offense, but you're doing a poor job with articulating your thoughts to the rest of us. #396 proves that it's not just me here.

Spoiler:

If you're curious to why I remained silent to a chunk of your early game comments, I decided to not answer because I didn't want to give you the satisfaction of a response. The reason being is that you were so obviously baiting, and none of your questions were actually that helpful, because anything I could tell you could so easily be replicated by scum, so there would be no point in responding to you at all.

Luckily, I'm glad I could overturn the crux of your argument. Unless, of course, you don't think I have; I've already covered that there is still no evidence of me deliberately misrepresenting you, nor am I fishing for a TR by any means, and it's unclear if there are any remaining grievances left that have not been addressed. Anywho, I intend to move forward by voting for Jumble. While I said I liked some of their posts in the past, it was purely on a "that's what I wanted to hear" basis and not because I thought they were townie. It's still a scumlean on that front.

UNVOTE: Quick
VOTE: Jumble

:puke:

[Poyzin]

I’ve decided that from this point forward, I’m going to act anti-town an no longer interact with Quick in any capacity.

I must be really bad at this, but the temptation got to me, so I'm going to respond to Quick again because I caught a question that he never asked me yet, which really pissed me off because I've already articulated my thoughts on the matter. Regardless, I plan on this being a one-off post for now, because I haven't yet said anything today. I promise that the rest of my content will be about other players.

They [Poyzin] made the point of fact about my progression and how it was bad rather than actually addressing the real issue which is why are they looking for Town cred for tryharding?

I'm not. You're fundamentally off your rocker. Activity is completely NAI, and what you perceive to be tryharding is me just playing the game. "Tryharding" is may be one the stupidest reason to townread someone or scumread someone, and I don't expect anybody here to truly be that daft and use it as an excuse. If anything, people should townread me because I make sense and have a townie mindset, not because I'm the top poster. Quick, if you have read basically any of early game, you'd know that's exactly how I feel about activity and how "tryharding" is never a logical reason to determine someone's alignment, much less demand a TR. I'm not demanding any TR, and I wouldn't mind being SR if it meant that you'd stop it with your bogus conjecture and your condescending rants. I'm still a player in this game, and no offense, but you're doing a poor job with articulating your thoughts to the rest of us. #396 proves that it's not just me here.

Spoiler:

If you're curious to why I remained silent to a chunk of your early game comments, I decided to not answer because I didn't want to give you the satisfaction of a response. The reason being is that you were so obviously baiting, and none of your questions were actually that helpful, because anything I could tell you could so easily be replicated by scum, so there would be no point in responding to you at all.

Luckily, I'm glad I could overturn the crux of your argument. Unless, of course, you don't think I have; I've already covered that there is still no evidence of me deliberately misrepresenting you, nor am I fishing for a TR by any means, and it's unclear if there are any remaining grievances left that have not been addressed. Anywho, I intend to move forward by voting for Jumble. While I said I liked some of their posts in the past, it was purely on a "that's what I wanted to hear" basis and not because I thought they were townie. It's still a scumlean on that front.

UNVOTE: Quick
VOTE: Jumble

:puke:

This is up there for one of the worst possible things that Quick could say in this instance, instead of, you know, actually addressing literally ANY part of the post. I rest my case. Probably won't be back on again until tonight though :/

[Marashu]

You are STILL doing it. You are piggy backing on Poyzin's misreps to try and state why you are not Scum.

My point was never that tryharding is inherently Scummy (or Townie for that matter) but based on how Poyzin reacted to being called Townie for tryharding, which they make exactly zero mention of. They made the point of fact about my progression and how it was bad rather than actually addressing the real issue which is why are they looking for Town cred for tryharding? Still remains to be seen that they are NOT doing that and all evidence points to the contrary at worst or is an argument from silence at best from Poyzin's perspective. I really don't see how two people can goof this up so bad without there being something intertwining them both or for completely fluke reasons they both have the same perspective on something that should be perfectly apparent to TOWN what my point was.

I feel I should just start quoting my case over and over at this point because this is a serious lack of effort from you or you are just Scum here. I have the SAME DAMN ISSUE with Poyzin which is that they are not actually thinking about what I am saying and are just spitting off things that sound like they defeat my point but they actually end up making them look really really bad.

And this has historically been a problem for me in the past in that I can most certainly get Scum tells from most people who don't actually think about what I am saying. As it is now, I like my vote until someone can explain how Poyzin's reaction there was actually Towny and not full of agenda and BS misreps.

So the weird thing here is that the reason I got that early TL from Poyzin is exactly because he turned down towncred in 37. To clarify, though, what do you mean by tryharding? I'm loosely familiar with the term as putting in a competitively large amount of effort to reach victory, but after reading a lot of what you're posting I'm wondering if you're meaning something else. To me your tryhard reaction test was looking at the wrong parts of the reaction and were designed to prove your theory of whether he was scum rather than to test his alignment - you were looking to see if he would take the towncred, while his reaction was to challenge how you went from saying he was scum in 66 to town in 68. Town doesn't care about towncred so why would he be looking for it there? Now it looks like you're tunneling to prove your conclusion rather than evaluating what you see.

@72 now that you've caught up would you mind explaining 285?
@teach are you still on your RVS vote or do you suspect GB? I really don't understand what you mean by

For the record, I find Baileys high interest morph into a prodge of a post today the most interesting shift

[Quick]

You are STILL doing it. You are piggy backing on Poyzin's misreps to try and state why you are not Scum.

My point was never that tryharding is inherently Scummy (or Townie for that matter) but based on how Poyzin reacted to being called Townie for tryharding, which they make exactly zero mention of. They made the point of fact about my progression and how it was bad rather than actually addressing the real issue which is why are they looking for Town cred for tryharding? Still remains to be seen that they are NOT doing that and all evidence points to the contrary at worst or is an argument from silence at best from Poyzin's perspective. I really don't see how two people can goof this up so bad without there being something intertwining them both or for completely fluke reasons they both have the same perspective on something that should be perfectly apparent to TOWN what my point was.

I feel I should just start quoting my case over and over at this point because this is a serious lack of effort from you or you are just Scum here. I have the SAME DAMN ISSUE with Poyzin which is that they are not actually thinking about what I am saying and are just spitting off things that sound like they defeat my point but they actually end up making them look really really bad.

And this has historically been a problem for me in the past in that I can most certainly get Scum tells from most people who don't actually think about what I am saying. As it is now, I like my vote until someone can explain how Poyzin's reaction there was actually Towny and not full of agenda and BS misreps.

So the weird thing here is that the reason I got that early TL from Poyzin is exactly because he turned down towncred in 37. To clarify, though, what do you mean by tryharding? I'm loosely familiar with the term as putting in a competitively large amount of effort to reach victory, but after reading a lot of what you're posting I'm wondering if you're meaning something else. To me your tryhard reaction test was looking at the wrong parts of the reaction and were designed to prove your theory of whether he was scum rather than to test his alignment - you were looking to see if he would take the towncred, while his reaction was to challenge how you went from saying he was scum in 66 to town in 68. Town doesn't care about towncred so why would he be looking for it there? Now it looks like you're tunneling to prove your conclusion rather than evaluating what you see.

@72 now that you've caught up would you mind explaining 285?
@teach are you still on your RVS vote or do you suspect GB? I really don't understand what you mean by

For the record, I find Baileys high interest morph into a prodge of a post today the most interesting shift

Scum does care about Town cred. I just tried to recreate the same experiment and I got a different result. Make of that what you will.

[teacher]

I just tried to recreate the same experiment and I got a different result. Make of that what you will.

Talk to me like I’m 5 because I feel like I’m missing a bit of what your putting down. What experiment did you recreate? What result was different?

[teacher]

teach are you still on your RVS vote or do you suspect GB? I really don't understand what you mean by

I explained 325 or 6 in 328.

[teacher]

We both have more posts than you and I posted several times after you said I was silent in 160. What point are you trying to make?

You saw my 214, you’re even quoting it here. Why not answer it?

[teacher]

@poyzin: why Jump from voting quick (and incessant casing and sparring) to voting WITH quick on jumble? I don’t see much of case at all in your iso. Also, why did you think your vote was L-2 (it wasn’t)?

I still like my wagon - anyone want to engage me on bailey?

[GeorgeBailey]

Beatlejuice

I am back from work and reading.

pls no bandwagony.

[teacher]

I’m an idiot who can’t read vcs. Poyzin ignore my questions please.

[teacher]

@george it’s only me and QQ right now, so go ahead and ketchup. Work been rough over a holiday weekend?

[Poyzin]

@poyzin: why Jump from voting quick (and incessant casing and sparring) to voting WITH quick on jumble? I don’t see much of case at all in your iso. Also, why did you think your vote was L-2 (it wasn’t)?

Hey teacher! Before I continue, I don't think you're looking at the most current vc. To the best of my knowledge, the three people who are currently voting for Jumble are GB, Gibus, and I, and this is based off of votecounte 1.04 in #391.

[Poyzin]

I’m an idiot who can’t read vcs. Poyzin ignore my questions please.

I picked a bad time to return, sorry :/

[teacher]

No worries I think my lysdexia transposed the jumble line and your line of that votecounts somehow. Silly me. Still wouldn’t mind words for the scumlean though.

[GeorgeBailey]

Actually after re-reading through the argument, I'm going to VOTE: Quick again.

You want to unpack that sherlock?

Quick - Scumlean, I just don't think his approach is helping town

Is this your answer? What about Quick do you think is anti-town?

Or atleast, what from their argument makes you side with poyzin?

[GeorgeBailey]

Yeah, apparently Tennis courts are an essential service. Who knew.

[Quick]

I just tried to recreate the same experiment and I got a different result. Make of that what you will.

Talk to me like I’m 5 because I feel like I’m missing a bit of what your putting down. What experiment did you recreate? What result was different?

At the beginning of the game I said Poyzin was Town for being active. Theys said, "Fear active Scum." Okay, fair enough. But when I then give another (what should be) BS reason for TRing them, which was that they were Town for tryharding, they IGNORE what I did there. Instead they talk about my progression being bad, not my reason for my read.

It should be fairly obvious that sometimes when people catch up they respond to earlier posts. That's actually exactly what I was doing.

Okay whatever Teacher can get back to me about #44 but I want to finish my takeaway of GB.

I'm hoping you're not scum again since you aren't asking those questions. I think I've only ever seen scum use them.

To me, this looks like GeorgeBailey is haphazardly throwing shade at Teacher without needing to commit to a scumread. They through out the possibility of Teacher being scum for a reason that’s NAI for the purpose of sowing doubt in the town. They say that they were trying to “prompt a reaction” out of teacher, and they elaborate here:

I wasnt expecting a static response. If he took it too seriously I would think that'd be scummy since I've seen scum act super defensive before over dumb tongue in cheek jokes.

However, based on the context of the first post, the second post does not make sense as GB’s response. The first post is obviously not a joke but a statement saying that they hope that Teacher was town. Therefore, by calling attention to the fact that Teacher is behaving similarly with their opening questions is only stated to manifest suspicion of Teacher and turn the focus onto him without having to do the legwork and find things that are scummy about Teacher. In the end, it would have been impossible to do so, as at the time Teacher should have very much been null due to the game just starting, so calling attention to something as “maybe scummy”, especially when they stated that it’s too early to tell whether Teacher’s line of questioning was an issue or not. It seems to me as if GB wanted to plant the idea that Teacher could be scum early on without having to pursue it any further and let Teacher react to it, when any reaction that Teacher could give would have been WIFOM at best and completely unhelpful at worst. Because of this, it seems to me that GB’s initial intent was to take a hands-off approach to the game, letting this run their course after provoking others with potential scumtells that aren’t really scumtells. This play style is usually done with malicious intent.

As a lesser but still impactful point, I also disagree with the town points awarded to Quick. For one, giving town points is in no way townie in and of itself, and there were already problems with Quick’s hasty rationale. However, GB giving town points to Quick after a total of 1 game-related post by Quick is already enough to raise alarm bells. I feel comfortable moving my vote out of RVS and towards someone who has a good chance of flipping scum.

UNVOTE: teacher

VOTE: GeorgeBailey

This feels like a bus.

Poyzin is tryharding so they are probably Town..

Poyzin is tryharding so they are probably Town..

You said I was bussing literally two posts ago how does you just change your mind on your motives. That’s not a natural progression at all.

Basically, Poyzin is SUPER trigger happy with their SR on me for my "lack of progression" but there are very clearly reasons why I would say he is Town for tryharding. SUCH AS me catching up. But this is ANOTHER DETAIL POYZIN MISSES.

Poyzin is tryharding so they are probably Town..

You said I was bussing literally two posts ago how does you just change your mind on your motives. That’s not a natural progression at all.

Wanted to see how you would react to being called town for tryharding.

This feels like a bus.

Could you expand on why you think this is a bus?

Too much effort too early to be a real read. More or less.

This is lame. Town can put in effort early

as well

. You’re at two strikes.

(This is an empty threat)

Here we see that Poyzin affirmes that it is MORE LIKELY that Scum go all tryhard in a game, or that is what can be CONCLUDED based on the way he worded this.

IN THE MEANTIME(!) Poyzin completely DISAPPEARS for 2 pages. Now, this isn't actually damning by itself until you actually read my case in 151 and NOTEWORTHY from my case is 121 where 72 VOTES me for being DEFENSIVE. But it is not actually DEMONSTRATED that I was being defensive because I could have very well been SMUG, which is actually a CONVENIENT DETAIL MISSED by 72.

TL;DR I did a reaction test and in the meantime of poyzin trying to figure out how they are going to respond, 72 seems to end up having their own misguided reasons for jumping the gun on SRing me. AND 72 should know FULL WELL that I had already done a reaction test to Poyzin, so it ends up making no sense why 72 suddenly feels like I have completely lost my grip on things for apparently zero reason and my reaction test I DID DO to to Poyzin, which I EXPLICITLY stated suddenly disappears form 72's memory and he thinks I am being DEFENSIVE (which isn't actually a Scum tell btw) instead of doing ANOTHER reaction test, this time to him.

TlTL;DR: they both have the sittiest reasons for SRing me.

[Poyzin]

Bailey seemed super hyped to play and was active I. The first 24, but has basically petered out. He’s one I’ve been watching since that weird interaction with Poyzin on page 2. Now, it’s a holiday weekend and normal ebbs and flows and all that, but seemed an odd switch - almost too early to demotivate, but possibly pleased to let the spotlight shine elsewhere.

So I take it that your scumread of GB is based around the fact that their activity has been inconsistent, i.e. from super active early on and engaged to being a lurker on perpetual catch up? Or are there more posts that you're using in your argument that you find scummy in particular? From my PoV, I don't feel comfortable using his lurking as a reason to scumread him, and will take him at his word that he had work that he needed to get done. I get that it's Memorial Day weekend but it's no skin off my back offering him the benefit of the doubt. If he brings up irl, it almost always is irl motivated.

[teacher]

I’m so glad you hit that up before you caught up. Part of what was pinging me was your seeming lurking, as I explained in a post later than the ones you just referenced, but I definitely get real life needs.

This was @Georges tennis comment.

Quick - thank you. That was actually quite helpful.

[Poyzin]

No worries I think my lysdexia transposed the jumble line and your line of that votecounts somehow. Silly me. Still wouldn’t mind words for the scumlean though.

I can do that for you. I've hinted at a Jumble scumread all game but I suppose it's due for me to present an ISO at some point, so I'll get cracking at that right away.

[teacher]

I don’t think George had brought up RL until just now, but yea, that does satisfy me on that point Poyzin, especially because the means of brining it up and responding felt unforced.

[GeorgeBailey]

Quick (3): NotAJumbleOfNumbers, Poyzin
GeorgeBailey (2): teacher
Poyzin (2): QuantumQuasar, Quick
NotAJumbleOfNumbers (1): GeorgeBailey, gibus

Deadline: 7 days, 11 hours, 31 minutes.

page 12 quick L-1 offsuit jumble marashu, the unvotes town lean




Poyzin



gibus
QuantumQuasar
Quick (SE)


GeorgeBailey (SE)


teacher (SE)

On page 12 with quick at L-1, the unvotes of offsuit jumble marashu are town indicative

Poyzin could be town with Quick
teacher town lean

between gibus bailey, bailey

Q

VOTE: GeorgeBailey

Ok, @QQ, can you please explain to me why you're voting me. I understand Teacher's in a sense. But like, why am I a PoE from {Gibus,Bailey}

and why is that even your PoE pool?

I know this is farther back than before my catch up but you're still voting me.

[teacher]

pending the jumble case. I have my own lean, but want to read that first.

[teacher]

There was supposed to be an UNVOTE: in there.

[QuantumQuasar]

Do I really need to explain why I'm voting you Bailey or do you want to control a line of questioning