Mini Normal 2141: The World of Tomorrow [Game over!]

[hellbooks]

I can't shake the feeling that there's a mislynch agenda behind VP Baltar's case
I dont have any thing I can point to for that but, wondering if theres something anyone else has on that.

Uh...

I understand that feelings aren't the most conducive to logical argument, but they ought not to be shunted to the wayside, no? I hope you can accept it for what it is, because it is just that, a feeling.

[hellbooks]

would we really have a second role that could potentially generate guilties?

A question I also asked myself but admittedly, I know absolutely nothing about setups and how they're balanced.
I'll admit it isn't the best of reasons but it's a rather inventive role. I'd be impressed for someone to come up with it as a fakeclaim. again, I'm not fully convinced of the claim but I do admit I want to believe it.

I actually don't get this list the more I'm thinking about it. You seemed pretty interested in a mavs lynch before and then helped run him up (I think your vote is still there actually), but he is fourth town on your list. You've also said pressure was due on quick, but that I'm trying to mislynch him.

My vote isn't there anymore. I unvoted because of the claim. That's also why I'm reevaluating. Yes, Puppy is there just because of lurking and not because of anything particular, but I wasn't townreading him in any way before that, so it's those things together. Yes, I worried about you trying to ML quick. I don't particularly trust either of you. Quick seems like someone who would be mislynch bait as town. However, I think you did do your part in putting those fears to rest in this post

You really need to take a concrete position on this. Do you believe he is town or not?

I remember myself saying 80/20 on accepting the claim. I believe i'm giving you a pretty strong belief there. What about you?

[hellbooks]

I'll say this much. I dont think mavs should be the lynch today. I also dont think we should give him a free pass to the end of the game. Is that acceptable?

[CantHateAPuppy]

rereading mavs i can see a strong case for a mavs/votato scumteam

i almost want to lunch mavs even disregarding the claim. he starts with a hard town read on votato for thin reasons where he seems to just post as often as he can how votato looks town. then he spends a decent part of the next few phases posting about how votato is a "pendulum" read which is shifting between town and scum. fine -- except mavs never posts when he is in the "scum" phase of this pendulum. it's a lot of "wow, i sure did have votato as scum for a while, but now i'm thinking he's town again"

mavs > votato > r2r. this is what i want as POE atm.

[VP Baltar]

I remember myself saying 80/20 on accepting the claim. I believe i'm giving you a pretty strong belief there. What about you?

I think I've been pretty clear about my position on the Mavs wagon -- I find his claim to be pretty credible, mostly due to the complexity of it if he is scum. That's very hard to pull off. I do think I missed your unvote then, which is partly why I was confused.

[VP Baltar]

I can't shake the feeling that there's a mislynch agenda behind VP Baltar's case
I dont have any thing I can point to for that but, wondering if theres something anyone else has on that.

Uh...

I understand that feelings aren't the most conducive to logical argument, but they ought not to be shunted to the wayside, no? I hope you can accept it for what it is, because it is just that, a feeling.

My issue is less with the feeling than the appealing to other people to fill in the gaps for you.

[Quick]

I'll say this much. I dont think mavs should be the lynch today. I also dont think we should give him a free pass to the end of the game. Is that acceptable?

Who do we lynch instead? You seem like you don't have solid reads yet so it's a little strange that you are suggesting no lynching the claim (for what reason?) in favor of someone else (an alternative? who would that be exactly?).

[midwaybear]

i sorta want to lynch hellbooks. A lot of uncertainty and flip flopping. This could be explained by her join date, so I would propose either quick or vpb.
thunderdome style

[CantHateAPuppy]

I'll admit it isn't the best of reasons but it's a rather inventive role. I'd be impressed for someone to come up with it as a fakeclaim. again, I'm not fully convinced of the claim but I do admit I want to believe it.

Just for sake of argument

imagine umlaut is designing this game and thinks "vig and cop-ish and protective? Scum needs something to balance with." or else, "vig and cop-ish and a strongman that makes them think there's a protective when there isn't? scum needs something to balance with." rememeber, strongman makes scum a little stronger if there's a protective role, but not if there isn't. in either case scum has less power than town with what we know so far.

So just imagine giving scum a fruit vendor. it's perfect -- safe claim, no powers that will hurt the scum, it's a plausible lie that would give scum a good claim when needed. it's all unprovable. in other words, a fruit vendor of this kind doesn't make a lot of sense for town, because it could get another guilt with clever posting. but it would make some sense for scum as a decent claim. [in our case is also comes with a neat tale about how mavs couldn't remember to test his fruit targets.]

i am going further down this rabbit hole than i meant to at first, apologies. Here's the rub. imagine, for a moment, that scum has a fruit vendor, and that's how mav's claim is so plausible. does that change what ur thinking at all? entertain this idea for a moment. would it change ur opinion of mavs to consider scum with a fruit vendor? or, if we accept that fruit vendor could be town and scum, and so drop mavs' claim for the moment, could u see him as scum?

[midwaybear]

what about the "grapes" and "fruitless" breadcrumbs?

[CantHateAPuppy]

what about them?

let me put this in a different sense. if mavs is town, the host put a fruit vendor in the game, one that just gives fruit to scum. mavs breadcrumbed it because that's what he was given. OK, makes sense.

if umlaut could put a town fruit vendor in the game, couldn't umlaut just as well have put a scum vendor in the game? in that case, mavs breadcrumbs because... that's what he was given.

[midwaybear]

ok, I guess that's fair. That also makes sense why mavs didn't first ask me or Dunnstral if we recieved fruit. I think we can both be consider conf town.
I am fine voting mavs I guess, but also fine will hellbooks or Quick.

[CantHateAPuppy]

it's not how believable the claim is that matters. the claim could be true as town or scum. it's whether the claim informs us that mavs has a Town or Scum mindset.

it's an open question, i'm not convinced either. But his role has the power to clear posters and he didn't use it, he forgot. That's important. The most important sense in which his role could be good for town... he just forgot at the most important moment. His claim could have helped clear some posters. Whoops!

That combined with the rest of his iso makes me want to lunch him even if his claim is believable

[VP Baltar]

i am going further down this rabbit hole than i meant to at first, apologies. Here's the rub. imagine, for a moment, that scum has a fruit vendor, and that's how mav's claim is so plausible. does that change what ur thinking at all? entertain this idea for a moment. would it change ur opinion of mavs to consider scum with a fruit vendor? or, if we accept that fruit vendor could be town and scum, and so drop mavs' claim for the moment, could u see him as scum?

I mean, yeah, if that is your premise, that seems more plausible...but that seems far out there doesn't it? It's like a fake role for scum. Also, if he knew from the start he was a fake vendor, wouldn't his handling of the claim have been better and appeared more pro town?

[midwaybear]

bruh that's wifom
scum will slip and his handling was pretty bad

[Quick]

ok, I guess that's fair. That also makes sense why mavs didn't first ask me or Dunnstral if we recieved fruit. I think we can both be consider conf town.
I am fine voting mavs I guess, but also fine will hellbooks or Quick.

Tsk tsk.

You have listed like 4 people you would vote in a number of posts. This isn't the Town content I expect from you. And that is on top of accusing hellbooks of being wishy washy.

And you and dunn being confirmed is an absolute LOL.

[midwaybear]

nah I vote 3 people mavs, you, or hellbooks
leaning towards you

[Quick]

[UV[/UV]

While I calculate reads, because on a cursory search, VP is actually looking pretty Town here, which is a bit shocking to me, honestly.

[Quick]

UNVOTE:

[Dunnstral]

going through some dead poster isos again, don't want to clutter the thread with lots of quotes so forgive me for being brief

nauci as the n1 kill still doesn't feel right to me. she had a scumread on mavs and atarashi/dunn at the beginning, not sure if she held those throughout, she seemed to waver a bit. but she put her reads in bold bright colors so scum would have remembered her first reads best.

reading gamma's iso again feels strong like mavs or votato are scum. there's some coaching, gamma works to cushion votato against the case i made, gamma keeps reading mavs as town for no real reason.

I didn't replace atarashi

[Dunnstral]

rereading mavs i can see a strong case for a mavs/votato scumteam

i almost want to lunch mavs even disregarding the claim. he starts with a hard town read on votato for thin reasons where he seems to just post as often as he can how votato looks town. then he spends a decent part of the next few phases posting about how votato is a "pendulum" read which is shifting between town and scum. fine -- except mavs never posts when he is in the "scum" phase of this pendulum. it's a lot of "wow, i sure did have votato as scum for a while, but now i'm thinking he's town again"

mavs > votato > r2r. this is what i want as POE atm.

Why do you have r2r as possible scum?

[Quick]

Possible SvS pairings:

votato: hellbooks,

Dunn

VP Baltar: mav,

Dunn

Midway: hellbooks, mav
hellbooks: votato, midway,

Dunn

Puppy: midway, mav
mavsfan41: votato, VP, hellbooks, Puppy, Dunn

Dunnstral

: votato, VP, hellbooks, Puppy, mav

Okay...

Semi-clears on red flip:

votato:

VP,

Puppy, Midway
VP Baltar:

Puppy,

votato,

hellbooks,

Midway,

Midway:

mav,

VP,

votato, Dunn
hellbooks:

Puppy,

VP,

Mav
Puppy:

hellbooks,

VP,

votato, Dunn
mavsfan41:

Midway,

Dunnstral:

Midway,

Gamma, 1

So I think VP is techincally the correct lynch today because if they flip red, then they are going to automatically implicate mav and clear 4 other people. If VP is Town and we lynch him then what happens is all those Non-Associatives with VP go bye bye and that would pretty much change the whole landscape of things (in a good way).

Strike

: at the most, half chance they are Scum than anyone else

Blue

: Particularly strong

VOTE: VP

[votato]

rereading mavs i can see a strong case for a mavs/votato scumteam

i almost want to lunch mavs even disregarding the claim. he starts with a hard town read on votato for thin reasons where he seems to just post as often as he can how votato looks town. then he spends a decent part of the next few phases posting about how votato is a "pendulum" read which is shifting between town and scum. fine -- except mavs never posts when he is in the "scum" phase of this pendulum. it's a lot of "wow, i sure did have votato as scum for a while, but now i'm thinking he's town again"

mavs > votato > r2r. this is what i want as POE atm.

i sorta want to lynch hellbooks. A lot of uncertainty and flip flopping. This could be explained by her join date, so I would propose either quick or vpb.
thunderdome style

bruh that's wifom
scum will slip and his handling was pretty bad

ok, I guess that's fair. That also makes sense why mavs didn't first ask me or Dunnstral if we recieved fruit. I think we can both be consider conf town.
I am fine voting mavs I guess, but also fine will hellbooks or Quick.

That puppy post does not come from town. I would love to wagon there. But then midway comes and reminds me why midway should be lynched. And then i dunno if i buy quicks backtrack. Quick, what exactly made you change your mind? I'm on mobile so sorry if the formatting is shit. Midway nothing about you is confirmed as town.


And now i don't like quick's revote. I could buy a quick midway team based on that. There's no way there are three scum left right?

[Quick]

Based on Non-Associatives + # of posts:

R2R, hellbooks
VP, mav
Dunn, Midway, Puppy > Null
votato

But with the soft clear on Dunn and taking out R2R we get:

hellbooks
VP, mav, Dunn
Midway, Puppy>Null
votato

[votato]

So now you want to lynch a town read?