Newbie 2007: Air [game over!]

[QuantumQuasar]

Possiblity that Jumble is town because he replaced someone else and usually that's VT

[QuantumQuasar]

since Jumble is at L-1 let him defend himself

just as quick said he won't let himself get voted off from newbies at L-1, how is voting for #1 so obviously a move too obvious to lynch #1 on D1 newbish

[Marashu]

As for my question, I think it stands - from where I'm seeing it, he's saying both he and jumble have more posts than you as of that time. That's NAI because it's something that can be easily checked. I just did - as of post 214, teacher had roughly double the number of your posts and Jumble had exactly one more post than you did.

PEdit - I agree that he shouldn't be hammered yet. If anyone is considering it, please declare intent and wait for his defense.

[QuantumQuasar]

As for my question, I think it stands - from where I'm seeing it, he's saying both he and jumble have more posts than you as of that time. That's NAI because it's something that can be easily checked. I just did - as of post 214, teacher had roughly double the number of your posts and Jumble had exactly one more post than you did.

PEdit - I agree that he shouldn't be hammered yet. If anyone is considering it, please declare intent and wait for his defense.

If the question is about who is talking more be my guest, you can't expect a lesson explaining everything each time.

One can't appeal constantly to a popularity contest for plebiscite

[Marashu]

You're the one who brought up the point on semantics by positing that, by teacher using the words "both" and "us", he and jumble cannot be scum. (Incidentally, the pronoun used in the post you quoted was "We" and not "us") I am requesting clarification on how the use of pronoun is alignment indicative.

I'm also confused about how a popularity contest for an advisory referendum is relevant.

[Quick]

As for my question, I think it stands - from where I'm seeing it, he's saying both he and jumble have more posts than you as of that time. That's NAI because it's something that can be easily checked. I just did - as of post 214, teacher had roughly double the number of your posts and Jumble had exactly one more post than you did.

PEdit - I agree that he shouldn't be hammered yet. If anyone is considering it, please declare intent and wait for his defense.

If the question is about who is talking more be my guest, you can't expect a lesson explaining everything each time.

One can't appeal constantly to a popularity contest for plebiscite

since Jumble is at L-1 let him defend himself

just as quick said he won't let himself get voted off from newbies at L-1, how is voting for #1 so obviously a move too obvious to lynch #1 on D1 newbish

VOTE: QQ

[Quick]

QQ has a Scum tell and I'm not outing it.

[Quick]

Possiblity that Jumble is town because he replaced someone else and usually that's VT

That is because Jumbles is Town. He is my TOP TR rn...

[Quick]

That's quite a claim! I expect a conf town by D2 if I survive N1 and thought that if scum claimed a PR on D2 then that would be a smart play and this is the right place to try that kind of move

This is a superb overreaction to what I said.

[NotAJumbleOfNumbers]

I

really

don't want to make this argument, but I think it's the only way I'm defending this.

I am just not good at mafia, as both sides. I make surface level comments because that's the only thing I can think of. I do fence-sitting simply because I didn't realize it was bad (actually, I didn't realize the term was used.) The Quick scumread was almost certainly out of annoyance and not much else. #13 was definitely a huge mistake. I used general language in #15 because again, I just couldn't think of much.

Don't think I'm that bad? Well, take a look at some of my previous games, or at least the attempts to play them.
Newbie 1866 - Canine Mafia Played a PR in this game, incredibly timid, slipped D1 and just lucked out with the jailkeep
Micro 838: A Miccro Normal Didn't mention much here that wasn't "surface level", eventually flaked out
Newbie 1902: Amphibians Replaced scum, was a "complete mess" and didn't win
Newbie 1871: Prey Same problem as Miccro Normal, literally said that I was better suited to Mish Mash and replaced out
Newbie 1095: Pictures From My Phone Okay, this one's actually kinda decent. Still doesn't help that I got lynched D1.
Newbie 1986 Again, the "surface level" thing strikes again, although I got into position to ask a few questions there. Ended up running out of things to post and flaked D1.
That still doesn't take into account the fact that I still am on Newbie status, even after two whole years.

I think I've shown pretty clearly that I don't really think highly of my own mafia skills. I mean, my wikipage literally has the line "Wishes he could play mafia" in it. That's all I really wanted to say. I'm probably getting hammered for this, and I don't care. At least now you know.

[Datisi]

Official Vote Count 1.05

---

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Lynching

NotAJumbleOfNumbers

(4): GeorgeBailey, gibus, Poyzin, Marashu

Quick

(1): NotAJumbleOfNumbers

GeorgeBailey

(1): QuantumQuasar

QuantumQuasar

(1): Quick

Not Voting

(2): 72offsuit, teacher

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-06-02 18:20:00).

Mod notes:

• ...

[/area]

[Poyzin]

I

really

don't want to make this argument, but I think it's the only way I'm defending this.

I am just not good at mafia, as both sides. I make surface level comments because that's the only thing I can think of. I do fence-sitting simply because I didn't realize it was bad (actually, I didn't realize the term was used.) The Quick scumread was almost certainly out of annoyance and not much else. #13 was definitely a huge mistake. I used general language in #15 because again, I just couldn't think of much.

Don't think I'm that bad? Well, take a look at some of my previous games, or at least the attempts to play them.
Newbie 1866 - Canine Mafia Played a PR in this game, incredibly timid, slipped D1 and just lucked out with the jailkeep
Micro 838: A Miccro Normal Didn't mention much here that wasn't "surface level", eventually flaked out
Newbie 1902: Amphibians Replaced scum, was a "complete mess" and didn't win
Newbie 1871: Prey Same problem as Miccro Normal, literally said that I was better suited to Mish Mash and replaced out
Newbie 1095: Pictures From My Phone Okay, this one's actually kinda decent. Still doesn't help that I got lynched D1.
Newbie 1986 Again, the "surface level" thing strikes again, although I got into position to ask a few questions there. Ended up running out of things to post and flaked D1.
That still doesn't take into account the fact that I still am on Newbie status, even after two whole years.

I think I've shown pretty clearly that I don't really think highly of my own mafia skills. I mean, my wikipage literally has the line "Wishes he could play mafia" in it. That's all I really wanted to say. I'm probably getting hammered for this, and I don't care. At least now you know.

Alright. Thank you for this post.

The first thing that I wanted to say is that this post does not help your case too much. When the point that you're trying to sell is "I'm not good at mafia,

as both sides

", it speaks volumes, because it means that your whole post doesn't really help instill confidence that you're town, because you say you are bad as both town and mafia. For one, the fact that you mention being bad at both alignments could potentially be a scumslip in the sense that you admit to being bad as mafia, something that I can't imagine should never come up if you're actually town. And secondly, you have no reason to give up yet. We aren't even halfway done with the first Day yet, and you're still here. Have more confidence in yourself. When you say "I'm probably going to be hammered and I don't care", that's directly going against a town wincon, if you're town.

At the other hand, I completely sympathize with you here. My very first game of forum mafia was a role madness uPick, and I distinctly remember being told by another townie to "get off the fence". The reason why making safe comments and unopinionated comments is not ideal is because it's the only way that we can determine if you're town or not. If you go through the game without making any opinions, then how can you be evaluated properly? There's nothing in your ISO that allows me to get a read off of your point of view, and keeping a low-profile without making anybody upset is a scum-tactic. Remember this: the perspectives make the player. I agree that mafia can be a very hard game, especially on N1 where nobody has any decisive night results and we only have words to go off of. The best thing I can say to you, if you're town of course, is to throw your hat into the ring. Make a case and present your evidence. Heck, we probably won't care if you're wrong; town can be wrong too! All that matters is that we can follow your train of thought and understand where your head is at in the game, and we're golden.

With that out of the way, I'm still not a fan of Jumble's defense. I think that it addresses all of the wrong points. I don't think that the evidence to see "why Jumble is bad" was a good idea by any means, as they don't show any of Jumble's alignment-based tendencies besides making general observations, which can be made by either alignment. So in the end, nothing that Jumble said makes me think that they're townie. On the flipside, I do think that Jumble's tone was very earnest coming from somebody in their position, even if they said they didn't care if they were hammered. While that is a bit anti-town, it feels more like a frustrated townie rather than a manipulative scum, and feels completely honest over anything. I can't decide at the moment whether I feel like scum!Jumble would make a NAI defense or if they would defend themselves with something more based, because I could see both possibilities. Scum!Jumble COULD say "It's because I'm bad at mafia" as a reason for them to be spared, but as I mentioned earlier, they said they didn't care if they were lynched or not, so I can't really see this being the route that scum!Jumble would take. I'm inclined to believe from the tone that Jumble is an honest townie who is frustrated at the situation they're in because of their perceived lack of skill.

The only true grievance that I really have is that Jumble didn't make any mention of trying to improve. While I think #459 is completely honest and is Jumble's idea of how they can defend themselves as town, Jumble doesn't talk about how they could help in the future. Even if the tone is townie, the words themselves are not. Jumble, I'm going to need you to promise that you'll try to play better. Make opinions of your own, and back them up. I'd also like you to make another ISO, but I want it to be about why each player is townie or scummy, or null. If it's a null read, I would like you to say why they are null, not just "could go either way". That way, we can see the way you think. It doesn't even need to be right, and there's no way that it should be. However, if you continue to just make general observations without at least attempting to find scum, then I can say that you will just be a liability for town in the future. You signed up for this game, so if you're going to play, play.

UNVOTE: Jumble

[Poyzin]

QQ - Townlean, feels very newbie town to me

What about QQ makes you think that he is a newbie, and why is he town?

[Datisi]

gibus has requested replacement.

[Datisi]

LuckyLuciano replaces gibus.

[LuckyLuciano]

UNVOTE:

[LuckyLuciano]

First things first. Marashu is scum. I haven't read anything yet. I just know this to be true because after an extensive study of Marashu's genetic code it has been concluded that the particular makeup of their genome resulted in an emergent property of RNG magnetism. In layman's terms, it is not possible for a random number generator to determine Marashu's alignment to be anything other than scum.

[LuckyLuciano]

First things first. Marashu is town. I haven't read anything yet. I just know this to be true because after an extensive study of Marashu's previous games it has been concluded that, given due consideration to statistical probability and set logic, this particular game must be a town game for Marashu. In layman's terms, the gambler's fallacy necessitates that Marashu is town this game.

[NotAJumbleOfNumbers]

Luciano we left RVS like 400 posts ago

[LuckyLuciano]

Luciano we left RVS like 400 posts ago

Okay then. I'll give my initial reads.

GeorgeBailey
Marashu
Quick
QuantumQuasar
Poyzin
72offsuit

teacher
NotAJumbleOfNumbers

[Poyzin]

Luciano we left RVS like 400 posts ago

Okay then. I'll give my initial reads.

GeorgeBailey
Marashu
Quick
QuantumQuasar
Poyzin
72offsuit

teacher
NotAJumbleOfNumbers

How is GB your top townread, in no more than two sentences?

[Poyzin]

Luciano we left RVS like 400 posts ago

Could you give me your thoughts on #461?

[LuckyLuciano]

Luciano we left RVS like 400 posts ago

Okay then. I'll give my initial reads.

GeorgeBailey
Marashu
Quick
QuantumQuasar
Poyzin
72offsuit

teacher
NotAJumbleOfNumbers

How is GB your top townread, in no more than two sentences?

1. I am being rushed.
2. I used random.org.



How did I do coach?

[Poyzin]

First things first. Marashu is scum. I haven't read anything yet. I just know this to be true because after an extensive study of Marashu's genetic code it has been concluded that the particular makeup of their genome resulted in an emergent property of RNG magnetism. In layman's terms, it is not possible for a random number generator to determine Marashu's alignment to be anything other than scum.

First things first. Marashu is town. I haven't read anything yet. I just know this to be true because after an extensive study of Marashu's previous games it has been concluded that, given due consideration to statistical probability and set logic, this particular game must be a town game for Marashu. In layman's terms, the gambler's fallacy necessitates that Marashu is town this game.

What was the goal of making these two contradictory posts? I get that it was probably a joke but is there some reason why you chose to joke with Marashu in particular after replacing in?

[Poyzin]

Luciano we left RVS like 400 posts ago

Okay then. I'll give my initial reads.

GeorgeBailey
Marashu
Quick
QuantumQuasar
Poyzin
72offsuit

teacher
NotAJumbleOfNumbers

How is GB your top townread, in no more than two sentences?

1. I am being rushed.
2. I used random.org.



How did I do coach?

If you're not caught up yet, that's fine. Just don't lie about a readslist if you haven't fully evaluated everyone yet. Nobody asked you to make it.