Mini Normal 2141: The World of Tomorrow [Game over!]

[votato]

if umlaut could put a town fruit vendor in the game, couldn't umlaut just as well have put a scum vendor in the game? in that case, mavs breadcrumbs because... that's what he was given.

He's a scum fruit vendor that didn't give out any fruit?

if hes a disloyal fruit vendor, then it doesnt really matter who he targeted, they wouldnt get fruit regardless of his alignment.

[CantHateAPuppy]

if umlaut could put a town fruit vendor in the game, couldn't umlaut just as well have put a scum vendor in the game? in that case, mavs breadcrumbs because... that's what he was given.

He's a scum fruit vendor that didn't give out any fruit?

The implausibility of why it would be a scum role is why it would make a good role to give scum to claim

It would help explain the setup balance if there is a cop-ish / vig when scum either have a useless strongman or there's a doctor floating around

The way Mavs handled his claim, I think I can believe he didn't just make it up. Also don't think the way he handled it reveals a town mindset butayne I bieve it

Still think votato/Mavs makes some sense as a team and votato makes sense solo

[ready2rock]

Been keeping up with the past couple pages, but don't have a ton of input to give, mostly because the 3 people that have votes right now are people I largely have town reads on. I believe votato atm over mavs, still don't think quick's actions on day 2 make any sense if he's scum, and think that the way mavs claimed and the way midway responded to it likely comes from midway being town regardless of how mavs flips.

The people I think are most likely scum are in {mavs, VP, Puppy}, but none of them are super strong reads, more based off people I don't think aren't scum if that makes any sense.

Will probably go back and reread D3 sometime today or tomorrow

[VP Baltar]

@r2r and hellbrooks - who do you actually want to vote out today? We need some stronger opinions from you. Particularly hellbrooks. I totally get the claim changing reads or needing to reconsider, but I see a lot of "well it could be X....or it could also be Y"...which isn't super helpful in trying to read you.

@Puppy - if the mavs lynch doesn't happen today, what do you think is the best compromise? Can you sum up the votato case for me?

@Quick - if one of votato/VP are scum, why have I been the primary focus of that logic? I don't mind that really, just curious why if that's a pretty even split, I'm fielding most of the investigative questions. Additionally, can you tell me how your thoughts would change on the list if mavs flips town? You don't need to do a full reads list like your last one, but I'm interested in how that alignment generally changes your read of the game, if true.

@mavsfan -- What do you think is the best lynch today in terms of both catching scum and revealing information to town?

[mavsfan41]

@VP: I’m not the biggest fan of puppy’s content recently. I’ll hafta give him a look through (honestly forgot he was part of this game). The other would be Quick. He’s just soooo anti-town. I’m not sure I’ll learn anything from a Quick flip. Maybe how he’s suspected almost everyone (some with really poor reasoning) provides the least amount of info. I guess it’d be puppy mostly cause when he was gone, not sure if there was an active scum pairing present pushing much. Hellbooks is still on my radar too.

[Quick]

@Quick - if one of votato/VP are scum, why have I been the primary focus of that logic? I don't mind that really, just curious why if that's a pretty even split, I'm fielding most of the investigative questions. Additionally, can you tell me how your thoughts would change on the list if mavs flips town? You don't need to do a full reads list like your last one, but I'm interested in how that alignment generally changes your read of the game, if true.

I appreciate this question because it seems like you actually give a shit what I say here.

That being said, it doesn't actually change a whole lot for anything at all if mav flips Town. That's actually quite a scary thought because mav is SUCH a low info lynch. If mav flips red then they can be teamed with almost anyone except midway, R2R I have basically cleared, and Dunn has a small soft clear based on what I previously mentioned with Gamma.

So... if we lynch mavs, then we are going to have to be pretty damn sure they are Scum here because their flip tells us VERY little either way. That said, I would not put it past you to ask this question of me if you already know the answer. After all, if you are Scum with mavs, then asking this question helps mav not get lynched (potentially).

That is why I originally wanted to flip you based on how you would change the game on your flip. Because you are actually the highest info lynch in the game rn and your red flip basically solves the game for us.

As far as me going after you vs votato.. IDK why that is. I guess it's based on votato's early play that really surprised me with the effort they were putting in for ~reasons~ that make me think they are Town. Perhaps I should reevaluate..

Still, I am paranoid that you are only asking these things to manipulate me and not because you are actually interested in the answer.

So that's basically it...

[ready2rock]

@r2r and hellbrooks - who do you actually want to vote out today? We need some stronger opinions from you.

I don't have much at the moment, which I why I need to have a reread. Before I was pretty set on wanting a mavs lynch, and now I'm not sure how helpful it'll be to flip mavs either way

The one thing I will say right now is that I think this longer day has been helpful, particularly since days 1 and 2 were cut so short. Gives us more information, gives everyone time to give input on what's going on, etc. so I don't mind too much that we're taking our time right now

[mavsfan41]

VOTE: Puppy

This ISO is bizarre. Lots of throwing shade but really only two votes. He votes votato after votato’s meta vote of Atarashi. Puppy then votes R2R. And again after votato.

I don’t know if this is a play style thing, but lots of pushing that feel more like trying to engage but seem off. He throws some reads out but votes very little, seems too much like walking on eggshells. As for VP’s question, I don’t know what this will reveal if Puppy flips red, but I think at this point, he’s most likely to flip red (votato would likely be cleared. R2R would also absolutely be cleared.)

The Blair/Gamma is weird, especially 1252. This is bizarre and he gives an ultimatum to Blair but doesn’t vote either Gamma/Blair. He was also the one who suggested allowing Gamma off the hook. This reads too much backing Gamma.

[Quick]

I don’t know what this will reveal if Puppy flips red, but I think at this point, he’s most likely to flip red (votato would likely be cleared. R2R would also absolutely be cleared.)

You could find this out if you look at the two posts I made last night. Are you being coy or fishing for an answer here or what?

[Quick]

So now you want to lynch a town read?

Also, this is just blatantly false. Where have I ever given VP a TR?

[ready2rock]

Based on Non-Associatives + # of posts:

R2R, hellbooks
VP, mav
Dunn, Midway, Puppy > Null
votato

But with the soft clear on Dunn and taking out R2R we get:

hellbooks
VP, mav, Dunn
Midway, Puppy>Null
votato

@Quick I took this post to mean that you were leaning town on VP at that point, but maybe I'm interpreting this list wrong

[Dunnstral]

^ I'm pretty sure you've given a tr on vp at multiple points this game

[Quick]

Based on Non-Associatives + # of posts:

R2R, hellbooks
VP, mav
Dunn, Midway, Puppy > Null
votato

But with the soft clear on Dunn and taking out R2R we get:

hellbooks
VP, mav, Dunn
Midway, Puppy>Null
votato

@Quick I took this post to mean that you were leaning town on VP at that point, but maybe I'm interpreting this list wrong

Yeah, Like I said before, based on my system, these are more or less rough estimates based on Town Utility/Town Equity. It's not really explicitly a Town/Scum list - mostly just a "this person has good content for Town or not". I realize this can be confusing based on what I have said so I don't think this is really shade on my system at all. To keep in mind, this is why I said VP is the best info lynch - because he clears like half the living players in the game if he is Scum and if he flips Town, then the people who he would normally clear are not going to look as Towny anymore.

[Quick]

^ I'm pretty sure you've given a tr on vp at multiple points this game

Please point out where I have said "VP is Town" because I am fairly sure I have never said VP is Town without some sort of clarifier attached to it.

[Dunnstral]

[UV[/UV]

While I calculate reads, because on a cursory search, VP is actually looking pretty Town here, which is a bit shocking to me, honestly.

[midwaybear]

exposed!

[midwaybear]

actually there is clarification in that quote, he's shocked
Quick, votato is scummiest by your associations?

[CantHateAPuppy]

@VP: I’m not the biggest fan of puppy’s content recently. I’ll hafta give him a look through (honestly forgot he was part of this game). The other would be Quick. He’s just soooo anti-town. I’m not sure I’ll learn anything from a Quick flip. Maybe how he’s suspected almost everyone (some with really poor reasoning) provides the least amount of info. I guess it’d be puppy mostly cause when he was gone, not sure if there was an active scum pairing present pushing much. Hellbooks is still on my radar too.

u forgot i was part of the game while i was interrogating u for ur claim?

?

???

[Quick]

[UV[/UV]

While I calculate reads, because on a cursory search, VP is

actually looking pretty Town here, which is a bit shocking to me, honestly.

It seems people continue to not actually read what I say, but what they want to hear.

Still, I would say this is a Town look for Dunn trying to get a quick and easy implication on me. In other words, Scum hunting.

[Quick]

Quick, votato is scummiest by your associations?

Yeah, but it might be playstyle. That is why I am holding off on tunneling rn.

[CantHateAPuppy]

@Puppy - if the mavs lynch doesn't happen today, what do you think is the best compromise? Can you sum up the votato case for me?

votato started with a very flimsy read on Atarashi/hellbooks, which he claimed was based on reading other games, but his read was inconsistent. (His read was in two parts, one was based on Atarashi's scum game, the other was based on the fact that he'd never actually seen Atarashi's scum game.) he was just trying to look like he put work in

a lot of his other reads show the same trait, i think this case keeps getting better and better! (look at his midway vote in 1066, it's totally empty.)

i also don't like the way he sided with gamma against blair. i almost think he sided too strongly with gamma, but looking again I still don't like it. see 1110 where he complains about blair posting too much without content. For comparison, 1677 he talks about how high his postcount is, and tries to quiz quick about voting for midway. (Wasn't that one of votato's scumtells?)

I also think if Votato makes a lot of sense with Gamma, he makes a lot of sense with Mav. This is kind of arbitrary, not sure i want to put too much into building a team right now. but read each iso looking for mentions of the other and it looks like distancing

[CantHateAPuppy]

Possible SvS pairings:

votato: hellbooks, Dunn
VP Baltar: mav, Dunn
Midway: hellbooks, mav
hellbooks: votato, midway, Dunn
Puppy: midway, mav
mavsfan41: votato, VP , hellbooks, Puppy, Dunn
Dunnstral: votato, VP, hellbooks, Puppy, mavBaltar: mav, Dunn Midway: hellbooks, mav hellbooks: votato, midway, Dunn Puppy: midway, mav mavsfan41: votato, VP, hellbooks, Puppy, DunnDunnstral: votato, VP, hellbooks, Puppy, mav

Quick, I guess I"m interested in hearing your votato / mavs ideas. (I want to compare notes, I'm trying not to tunnel I promise)

But while I'm looking at this, can you explain your system a little? What are you looking at here? Number of times people talk about/to each other? what are you assumptions here

[Quick]

@Puppy - if the mavs lynch doesn't happen today, what do you think is the best compromise? Can you sum up the votato case for me?

votato started with a very flimsy read on Atarashi/hellbooks, which he claimed was based on reading other games, but his read was inconsistent. (His read was in two parts, one was based on Atarashi's scum game, the other was based on the fact that he'd never actually seen Atarashi's scum game.) he was just trying to look like he put work in

a lot of his other reads show the same trait, i think this case keeps getting better and better! (look at his midway vote in 1066, it's totally empty.)

i also don't like the way he sided with gamma against blair. i almost think he sided too strongly with gamma, but looking again I still don't like it. see 1110 where he complains about blair posting too much without content. For comparison, 1677 he talks about how high his postcount is, and tries to quiz quick about voting for midway. (Wasn't that one of votato's scumtells?)

I also think if Votato makes a lot of sense with Gamma, he makes a lot of sense with Mav. This is kind of arbitrary, not sure i want to put too much into building a team right now. but read each iso looking for mentions of the other and it looks like distancing

This is a Town post.

[Quick]

Possible SvS pairings:

votato: hellbooks, Dunn
VP Baltar: mav, Dunn
Midway: hellbooks, mav
hellbooks: votato, midway, Dunn
Puppy: midway, mav
mavsfan41: votato, VP , hellbooks, Puppy, Dunn
Dunnstral: votato, VP, hellbooks, Puppy, mavBaltar: mav, Dunn Midway: hellbooks, mav hellbooks: votato, midway, Dunn Puppy: midway, mav mavsfan41: votato, VP, hellbooks, Puppy, DunnDunnstral: votato, VP, hellbooks, Puppy, mav

Quick, I guess I"m interested in hearing your votato / mavs ideas. (I want to compare notes, I'm trying not to tunnel I promise)

But while I'm looking at this, can you explain your system a little? What are you looking at here? Number of times people talk about/to each other? what are you assumptions here

What you quoted is basically just the inverse of what I actually calculate. I look for interactions that look like they are never SvS and that's basically all the thing is. So the quoted part is just where there are no Non-Associatives with those players. There are certain qualifications that make a Non-Associative, but obviously I can't talk about that so that my system continues to work and Scum can't manipulate it. It's shown to be deadly accurate as far as who can't be teamed with whom and the longer the game goes on for, the more potent it actually becomes.

[votato]

Based on Non-Associatives + # of posts:

R2R, hellbooks
VP, mav
Dunn, Midway, Puppy > Null
votato

But with the soft clear on Dunn and taking out R2R we get:

hellbooks
VP, mav, Dunn
Midway, Puppy>Null
votato

@Quick I took this post to mean that you were leaning town on VP at that point, but maybe I'm interpreting this list wrong

Yeah, Like I said before, based on my system, these are more or less rough estimates based on Town Utility/Town Equity. It's not really explicitly a Town/Scum list - mostly just a "this person has good content for Town or not". I realize this can be confusing based on what I have said so I don't think this is really shade on my system at all. To keep in mind, this is why I said VP is the best info lynch - because he clears like half the living players in the game if he is Scum and if he flips Town, then the people who he would normally clear are not going to look as Towny anymore.

so basically its a good lynch if and only if it flips red. well, thats certainly true, but thats also true of any other lynch on scum. It doesnt help us if it flips green, as most of us think it will.