Newbie 2007: Air [game over!]

[Datisi]

Official Vote Count 1.07

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With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Lynching

NotAJumbleOfNumbers

(2): GeorgeBailey, Marashu

GeorgeBailey

(2): QuantumQuasar, LuckyLuciano

Quick

(1): NotAJumbleOfNumbers

QuantumQuasar

(1): Quick

Not Voting

(3): 72offsuit, teacher, Poyzin

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-06-02 18:20:00).

Mod notes:

• Searching for a replacement for NotAJumbleOfNumbers.

[/area]

[LuckyLuciano]

soon

That's what she said when she got bored.

[Quick]

I am telling you, explicitly, that this would be helpful to me. Could you just assume that I have some degree of competence and amuse me?

I am assuming you DO have some level of competence. Which is why I am saying rewind the tape and listen to it again.

[LuckyLuciano]

There's 600 posts to rewind through. As far as I can see, you are arguing one of {Jumble, Poyzin} + one of {GB, 72}. I'm asking you what happens if Jumble + Poyzin (and Teacher) are all town?

[Quick]

I'm guessing that makes you grind your teeth...

The problem with a GB flip is if they are Town. Then we have next to zero info for D2.

[LuckyLuciano]

Do you believe that I am trying, to the best of my ability, to work with you in a way that is both healthy and productive?

Do you feel that you are trying, to the best of your ability, to work with me in a way that is both healthy and productive?

Does the lack of information provided by a GB townflip outweigh the reasons to believe he is scum?

[Quick]

Do you believe that I am trying, to the best of my ability, to work with you in a way that is both healthy and productive?

Do you feel that you are trying, to the best of your ability, to work with me in a way that is both healthy and productive?

Does the lack of information provided by a GB townflip outweigh the reasons to believe he is scum?

I believe it's in your nature to be emotionally manipulative. I have no reason to trust you.

I'd rather flip your slot than GB tbh.

[LuckyLuciano]

Mmk. I'm going to give the thread some room to breathe and allow others to chime in. Maybe working with you more indirectly will be more productive.

[Quick]

Mmk. I'm going to give the thread some room to breathe and allow others to chime in. Maybe working with you more indirectly will be more productive.

Guess how many Non-Associatives your slot has?

[Quick]

Who's the best player here, imho it's either Notajumbleofnumbers or offsuit and they haven't posted yet

This post never comes from scum.

Explain.
You can't throw out a statement like this without clarifying.

Scum doesn’t call the entirety of the active player list bad, or at least that none of them are “the best” players. I don’t think I’m the best player here but it’s unnecessarily confrontational and scum does not benefit at all from posting this, especially when QQ was never the focus of the thread at any time yet thus far.

No follow up here from 72 ftr.

But I can see gibus Town based on 372

[Quick]

That’s lame. Fear active scum.

I like this post.

(Or at least, can you see the merits in how saying "I hope you aren't scum" can be interpreted as somewhat scummy? It's a phrase that I've used several times in my opening posts when I'm scum, because it could be interpreted as diet LAMIST from my perspective)

I've seen people do "I hope you're not scum" as town, but admittedly not on the first page. I'd place it as NAI right now.

First poyzin says hello to everyone after a leave of absence because of some background check on strangers

Then Quick congratulates him for being active by awarding him town points

Then Bailey awards Town points to Quick for awarding town points

What's your take-away from this?

I like this post.

I find it ironic that you say “I like this post” when one of the parts of said post contained “I like this post”, which is the lowest form of demonstrating that one has an opinion. This is most certainly intentional, but what parts of the post do you find to be good?

I've found that players who gut-town-read short phrases such as "That’s lame. Fear active scum" tend to be town.

Also like MArashu's follow-up questioning to appear to be town-motivated "What's your take-away from this?"

To be fair I was getting a similar town ping so I do see what you mean, but I wanted to hear what you had to say. I found the second bit to be the most townie though, because they weighed both sides of an argument and made a decision on the matter, being that the phrase was NAI. I’d say that they’re a town lean for me atm

I usually don't looks at SvS interactions, but yeah... this exists...

[Quick]

I’ve never played a game where I’ve been so obvtown.

Come now. I am SRing you. Yet you say you are obvTown. So am I wrong or Scum here?

[Quick]

Mmk. I'm going to give the thread some room to breathe and allow others to chime in. Maybe working with you more indirectly will be more productive.

Guess how many Non-Associatives your slot has?

One.

[72offsuit]

I didn’t like Gibus’s unvote. And QQ townreading people for townreading him feels like genuine newbishness, but I would like a link the game that made you nervous of lolwagons, please?

I was responsible for lolhammering QQ. Needless to say I'm ashamed

It's an ongoing game. Is it allowed to post a link to it?

No, thanks for raising that question. TBH, he should not have discussed it at all in that circumstance. Discussion of ongoing games is verboten, and thats not a rule to toy around with.

Since you seem to be around, talk about your reads. What do you think Poyzin's interactions with Quick or Bailey? Anyone giving you the heebies (you unvoted, but havent really pushed in any direction). Do you disagree with the townread of QQ?

This is giving me scum to scum interaction vibes

Why do you think so? Did teacher and gibus really conspire to have teacher criticize gibus for talking about an ongoing game here?

It just feels really awkward and stilted to me, as though it was manufactured.

Scum-thinking: I'm gna play the newbcard, and pretend I don;t have a scum thread partner which i couldve asked said noob question in scum thread

[Quick]

Luciano we left RVS like 400 posts ago

Okay then. I'll give my initial reads.

GeorgeBailey
Marashu
Quick
QuantumQuasar
Poyzin
72offsuit

teacher
NotAJumbleOfNumbers

How is GB your top townread, in no more than two sentences?

1. I am being rushed.
2. I used random.org.



How did I do coach?

If you're not caught up yet, that's fine. Just don't lie about a readslist if you haven't fully evaluated everyone yet. Nobody asked you to make it.

Spoiler alert! gibus is LL, just an alt.

[72offsuit]

Jumble

Dislike 75 / 136 - the unvote due to "being out of RVS". !townJumble deeming that there is enough content that we have departed from RVS,
should have a FoS good enough to vote for.
Post 24, when Jumble feels we left RVS hardly meets that criteria for me.

Post 167 completely misreads the continued sarcasm which was pretty obvious, feels like Jumble just isnt following the thread closely,
but rather just lightly skimming over.
Asks for my scum games, makes zero comment about them.

Third voter on the garbage wagon on Quick. With an even worse reason to be on it.

Scummy.

Poyzin

His hyper posting just feels like town. Vast majority of them game-related, most of them are player-specific
or alignment analysing.

Agree with other, I like his 37 , it feels like a defiant and natural response.


67 - townie vibe - takes a strong definitive stance on a player.
49 - feels like positive energy, but making a mountain out of a molehill.
Don't really agree with the post but it feels like a genuine thought process.

I actually like his "@spectators" and predictions - It's something I ahve similarly done as town myself.


gibus - null


QuantumQuasar

Word-salad, stream of consciousness posting feels like town.

Post 160 makes some definitive calls on scum teams that he deems very unlikely, and they feel like genuine reasons.


Marashu

Null

I like 46 - As i explained in 118, I've found that players who gut-town-read short phrases such as
"That’s lame. Fear active scum" ... tend to be town.

Also like MArashu's follow-up questioning to appear to be town-motivated "What's your take-away from this?"

Quick (SE)

Analogy: Thinks he is a big-game-hunter. In his mind is setting elaborate traps, to cleverly catch his prized big-cat,
when what he is actually doing is setting el-cheapo pitfalls, that he is more likely to trip and fall into himself, than scum is.

Nevertheless, he is confrontational in a productive way, appears genuine in seeking to provoke alignment-indicative responses 73 (114)
mixed in with just being condsecsending and trollish ( 93 , 128 ,143 ) - NAI

Scummy in his garbage and forced:
1)"chainsaw defence" theory, in post 151, respews question that I had already answered with loaded question
"Why do you "like" it? Is it something that helps you read them, or is this a buddy attempt?"

2) "Freudian slip" theory


Townie vibe off 301 - feels like its coming from a town mindset - a goal of basically pressuring QQ to post more, to affirm his town read.

Overall: Slight townlean



GeorgeBailey (SE)

63 - Doens;t sound like it comes from a town-mindset.
Why would !townGB give potential-scum QQ an "out" ("it was in fact just a joke") to escape a line of pressure/accusation.


teacher (SE)

39 and 43 feel like nitpicking and overly reading into nothing. Smells a bit like time-wasting red herring irrelevancy.

Post 58 : Never liked the use of terms like weird / odd /strange. Gives me bad pings.

Post 171 : Finds my posts "interesting" - fence sits, doesnt commit to a read on me either way - town, scum or null

[72offsuit]

I'm gna repost that half-assed post

[Quick]

They don't.

And you can only know this if you are Scum???

[72offsuit]

Jumble: Scummy

Dislike 75 / 136 - the unvote due to "being out of RVS". !townJumble deeming that there is enough content that we have departed from RVS,
should have a FoS good enough to vote for.
Post 24, when Jumble feels we left RVS hardly meets that criteria for me.

Post 167 completely misreads the continued sarcasm which was pretty obvious, feels like Jumble just isnt following the thread closely,
but rather just lightly skimming over.
Asks for my scum games, makes zero comment about them.

Third voter on the garbage wagon on Quick. With an even worse reason to be on it.


Poyzin: Townlean

His hyper posting just feels like town. Vast majority of them game-related, most of them are player-specific
or alignment analysing.

Agree with other, I like his 37 , it feels like a defiant and natural response.


67 - townie vibe - takes a strong definitive stance on a player.
49 - feels like positive energy, but making a mountain out of a molehill.
Don't really agree with the post but it feels like a genuine thought process.

I actually like his "@spectators" and predictions - It's something I ahve similarly done as town myself.


gibus - null


QuantumQuasar: Townlean

Word-salad, stream of consciousness posting feels like town.

Post 160 makes some definitive calls on scum teams that he deems very unlikely, and they feel like genuine reasons.


Marashu: Scummy

I like 46 - As i explained in 118, I've found that players who gut-town-read short phrases such as
"That’s lame. Fear active scum" ... tend to be town.

Also like MArashu's follow-up questioning to appear to be town-motivated "What's your take-away from this?"

388 is a garbage case against me.

Townleans Poyzin, but then accuses me of being scum due to me chainsaw defending Poyzin
Contradictory, not coming from a town mindset, but rather scum who is picking and choosing random bits to create fake reads, rather than trying to be wholistic in their approach as to who scum or town is.


Quick (SE)

Analogy: Thinks he is a big-game-hunter. In his mind is setting elaborate traps, to cleverly catch his prized big-cat,
when what he is actually doing is setting el-cheapo pitfalls, that he is more likely to trip and fall into himself, than scum is.

Nevertheless, he is confrontational in a productive way, appears genuine in seeking to provoke alignment-indicative responses 73 (114)
mixed in with just being condsecsending and trollish ( 93 , 128 ,143 ) - NAI

Scummy in his garbage and forced:
1)"chainsaw defence" theory, in post 151, respews question that I had already answered with loaded question
"Why do you "like" it? Is it something that helps you read them, or is this a buddy attempt?"

2) "Freudian slip" theory


Townie vibe off 301 - feels like its coming from a town mindset - a goal of basically pressuring QQ to post more, to affirm his town read.

Overall: Slight townlean



GeorgeBailey (SE)

63 - Doens;t sound like it comes from a town-mindset.
Why would !townGB give potential-scum QQ an "out" ("it was in fact just a joke") to escape a line of pressure/accusation.


teacher (SE)

39 and 43 feel like nitpicking and overly reading into nothing. Smells a bit like time-wasting red herring irrelevancy.

Post 58 : Never liked the use of terms like weird / odd /strange. Gives me bad pings.

Post 171 : Finds my posts "interesting" - fence sits, doesnt commit to a read on me either way - town, scum or null

[72offsuit]

LuckyLuciano

NotAJumbleOfNumbers

- 145 is a good look. It's a true statement, so on its own it's NAI. However, when considering gamestate, this post equals an equity loss for scum and equity gain for town... I like 278. I don't like 279... 294 feels town... 337, I agree. The amount of strong townreads I'm arriving at is a bit concerning, but the amount of mindmelding I am doing with my townreads about their other townreads makes me think that I'm on the right track. This game is probably solved very early through PoE... 366, yep. Jumble is clearly aware of the scum equity loss in gamestate that I mentioned earlier when he made 145. If he's scum, he's working towards a gamestate that makes it harder for him to win.

teacher

- I understand what he feels in 55 WRT Poyzin. I'm not sure that his framing of Poyzin's player archetype is necessarily accurate though, which is probably why he has trouble reading players of that archetype. That's NAI, I just enjoy theory discussions... 171 still traces the way I'm reading the game pretty well. I'm cool with teacher being town for the day, if only because he's maintaining his sanity while surrounded by a bunch of crazy conspiracy theory level pushes... 326 and 328 speak precisely to how I feel the gamestate looks at the point those posts are made. The Poyzin vs Quick 1v1 drowned out all other voices to the point where if it's TvT, all scum has to do is not play the game. There are quite a few players who, 300 posts in, have yet to start existing. Why is that? Because town isn't forcing them to exist. I'm pretty confident that scum is within the lurkers... 339 coheres to the mindset read I've had of teacher, which makes me more comfortable extrapolating town!motive from his play... I see what he did in 410 and I love it. Traps are fun...

Poyzin

- I really didn't like how quickly he tried to get meaningful content out of me when I replaced in. For the record, I replaced in knowing that I was too tired to catch up immediately and never intended to contribute meaningfully yesterday. My opening posts were made to get some initial reactions to work with. This makes it odd that Marashu both asks if this is what my scum game looks like, and points out that I lean heavily on reaction tests while missing how my posts could have been reaction tests in 488. Anyhoo, back to Poyzin. I definitely found him to be trying too hard in my initial interaction with him, to the point of feeling LAMIST. However, I am currently at 49 and I have come to realize that he is always going to look like he is trying too hard and it's because of an overeagerness to solve the game. I think this coheres with the mindset read I got of him in his earlier posts WRT flaking from the site because he felt uncomfortable and also with how, in my experience, overeager town tends to tunnel in on things that are NAI and make fullblown scumreads out of them... 113 flags me as sus. I don't like that he feels a need to explain that he's being silly... 115, it looks like he took QQ's 65 personally. Subconsciously indicative of town!Poyzin. This is supported by the mindset present in 114... 174 I feel this. I like to talk to people in the dead thread. Poyzin feels a lot like town!me when I was a newbie (I have over 10 years of mafia experience, despite being considered a newbie on this site). I think that he thinks he's better than other players, and that's why he talks to spectators, because they are expected to understand him even when other players don't. This coheres with the mindset reads I've been getting so far... It looks like Jumbo sees this the same way in 208... I pretty much stopped reading Poyzin's posts somewhere after this point.

Quick

- I'm at 128 in my reading of the game and 547 with current discussions at the time of writing. In my experience, Quick picks a scumping and hard tunnels it for the rest of the game, refusing to look at anything else. He also throws his hands in the air and practically begs you to lynch him the moment somebody FoS' him as town. I need to look into his meta to see if he also does this as scum... I pretty much stopped reading Quick's posts somewhere after this point.

QuantumQuasar

- Gonna be honest, I don't really pay much attention to his posts when I play with him. I don't speak his language. 430 caught my eye though. It feels town for the same reason that Teacher and Jumble's approach to the gamestate feels town.

Marashu

- Not much felt AI early. 434, the reading of Poyzin vs Quick is becoming overwhelmingly TvT, and that concerns me. I feel that scum should be exploiting the gamestate is they are indeed TvT.

72offsuit

- I really don't like his early spew of posts. Not only are they almost entirely wrong on a theoretical level (unfortunately being wrong is NAI), but they don't provide meaningful content. They say, "I'm here", without saying much beyond that. This has me torn because when he does ask questions, he's asking the same questions that I want answered... 121 is okay. I think in general I don't read 72o and Quick as SvS... I kept reading 72o's posts for a while after this point but wasn't finding value and eventually stopped reading them.

GeorgeBailey

- Literally nothing groundbreaking all game. He just sinks into the background.

This is where I'm going to take a break. I wouldn't be surprised at all if {Marashu, 72o, George} is a winning PoE.

I gotta admit, this reads list seems legit.
Unlike the !scumKLL garbage reads list from our previous game.

I;m inclined to think that at least one of GB and Marashu are scum

[Quick]

I'm inclined to think that at least one of GB and Marashu are scum

FTFY (Sorry I will try not to be a grammar Nazi).

But this really needs unpacking.

[72offsuit]

I think I'm somewhere here:

QQ
Poyzin, Quick

LL/gibus

Jumble

Marashu
teacher
GeorgeBailey

[Quick]

Poe's law is basically "People can't tell if it's a parody or not if you don't provide any indicator (like a winky face or /s or whatever)"

@gibus remove that first vote please thanks

If this isn't a joke, i'd say this is the most suspicious post so far.

Possibly the funniest post in the whole thread.

[72offsuit]

I'm inclined to think that at least one of GB and Marashu are scum

FTFY (Sorry I will try not to be a grammar Nazi).

But this really needs unpacking.

Both have been very underwhelming, scant ISOs, lack of real hard-hitting game-related content. The sort of paly scum makes when there is a gamestate like players like Poyzin and Quick and myself going at each other.

[Quick]

I think I'm somewhere here:

QQ
Poyzin, Quick

LL/gibus

Jumble

Marashu
teacher
GeorgeBailey

Also unpack your teacher read, thank.

GLHF.