Newbie 2007: Air [game over!]

[Datisi]

Official Vote Count 1.08

---

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Lynching

GeorgeBailey

(3): QuantumQuasar, LuckyLuciano, 72offsuit

NotAJumbleOfNumbers

(2): GeorgeBailey, Marashu

Quick

(1): NotAJumbleOfNumbers

QuantumQuasar

(1): Quick

Not Voting

(2): teacher, Poyzin

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-06-02 18:20:00).

Mod notes:

• Searching for a replacement for NotAJumbleOfNumbers.

[/area]

[LuckyLuciano]

mine?

You seriously camped out for that page top? I'm not salty...

[Quick]

I read poker strategy, but have never posted in a poker forum

And yet, you somehow magically know the context of what I am talking about here. Too bad you can't answer my other questions, but I get you don't want to bury yourself in the grave you have dug.

Coolstorybro

I know. No one listens to me and it is sad. However, things are going to change, I can feel it.

Maybe if you actually came up with some content that was worth listening to....

I'm inclined to think that at least one of GB and Marashu are scum

FTFY (Sorry I will try not to be a grammar Nazi).

But this really needs unpacking.

Both have been very underwhelming, scant ISOs, lack of real hard-hitting game-related content. The sort of paly scum makes when there is a gamestate like players like Poyzin and Quick and myself going at each other.

Poyzin seems to think tryharding is Scum indicative. What are your thoughts on that?

Why are you still harping on about tryharding? I townlean Poyzin who you say is "tryharding" so obv I don;t think "tryharding" is scum indicative

You answered a question I didn't ask.

Depends what you and he define as "tryharding".
If he thinks tryharding is Scum indicative as you state, than so be it. Its NAI and a worthless line of enquiry imo.

Not really considering Poyzin still has zero comment on them either admitting tryharding more often comes from Scum OR whether he is tryharding or not.

[Quick]

Maybe if you actually came up with some content that was worth listening to....

Look, bro. This is about as simple as I can make it...

@Quick, could you please clarify - has your opinion on Poyzin changed, or is QQ more scummy?

Same thoughts. Poyzin is Scum but no one followed me there/thought what I said was legit. So I'm going after his partner instead.

Usually when I make a case and it goes nowhere it's on Scum. Usually when I make a case and it gets them lynched, they are Town. Don't expect you to just believe me though.

[Quick]

Usually when I make a case and it goes nowhere it's on Scum. Usually when I make a case and it gets them lynched, they are Town. Don't expect you to just believe me though.

Given my experience playing with you, I'm not surprised.

Quick, unless you out your tell or have some kind of quantum case against QQ, I have no interest.

Okay, here's the tell. QQ get's really high brow when he is Scum. He tends to say things like "You're all a bunch of lower class citizens" when he is Scum. Maybe not those exact words, but basically that same meaning.

And my lack of surprise is clearly warranted. QQ is high brow as town too.

Could you maybe link a post to this for my reacord?

[72offsuit]

Spoiler: Title

Text

[72offsuit]

Spoiler: Title

Fear me scum, i can spoiler post <3

[teacher]

You forgot a comma.

[teacher]

Also that’s one heck of a lot of pages to wake up to - any TL/dr because I’m in class all day? Otherwise I will get back tonight.

[Quick]

Also that’s one heck of a lot of pages to wake up to - any TL/dr because I’m in class all day? Otherwise I will get back tonight.

LL did nothing AI. 72 is now throwing shade at Poyzin.

[Poyzin]

Yoooooo, Lucky is actually good! Here I was ready to just lynch that slot out of here, but their readslist I forgot to quote seems like a townie one. LL was the real winner out of this debate imo, jumps out of scumlean for me. (not a full townread because of the Jumble situation but small victories)

[Poyzin]

I’ve decided that from this point forward, I’m going to act anti-town an no longer interact with Quick in any capacity.

I must be really bad at this, but the temptation got to me, so I'm going to respond to Quick again because I caught a question that he never asked me yet, which really pissed me off because I've already articulated my thoughts on the matter. Regardless, I plan on this being a one-off post for now, because I haven't yet said anything today. I promise that the rest of my content will be about other players.

They [Poyzin] made the point of fact about my progression and how it was bad rather than actually addressing the real issue which is why are they looking for Town cred for tryharding?

I'm not. You're fundamentally off your rocker. Activity is completely NAI, and what you perceive to be tryharding is me just playing the game. "Tryharding" is may be one the stupidest reason to townread someone or scumread someone, and I don't expect anybody here to truly be that daft and use it as an excuse. If anything, people should townread me because I make sense and have a townie mindset, not because I'm the top poster. Quick, if you have read basically any of early game, you'd know that's exactly how I feel about activity and how "tryharding" is never a logical reason to determine someone's alignment, much less demand a TR. I'm not demanding any TR, and I wouldn't mind being SR if it meant that you'd stop it with your bogus conjecture and your condescending rants. I'm still a player in this game, and no offense, but you're doing a poor job with articulating your thoughts to the rest of us. #396 proves that it's not just me here.

Spoiler:

If you're curious to why I remained silent to a chunk of your early game comments, I decided to not answer because I didn't want to give you the satisfaction of a response. The reason being is that you were so obviously baiting, and none of your questions were actually that helpful, because anything I could tell you could so easily be replicated by scum, so there would be no point in responding to you at all.

Luckily, I'm glad I could overturn the crux of your argument. Unless, of course, you don't think I have; I've already covered that there is still no evidence of me deliberately misrepresenting you, nor am I fishing for a TR by any means, and it's unclear if there are any remaining grievances left that have not been addressed. Anywho, I intend to move forward by voting for Jumble. While I said I liked some of their posts in the past, it was purely on a "that's what I wanted to hear" basis and not because I thought they were townie. It's still a scumlean on that front.

UNVOTE: Quick
VOTE: Jumble

@Quick you wanna stop lying buddy?

[Poyzin]

Hell, maybe I should drop the barrier and actually begin communicating with Quick again. I don’t want to spend too much time on it but I’ve been ignoring your provocations for long enough.

Spoiler:

So, are you planning to stop being toxic at any point in this game, or should I learn to expect it?

So continued toxicity, got it.

"1. Work with and listen to Town. I can't stress this enough. I made the mistake of playing completely independently for far too long and it ended up with a lot of bad reads. Working with Town greatly increases your chances of winning."

pedit: Hmm, who am I an alt of?

@MOD

, can we get a VC please?

I am not about to be lynched D1 for the second time in a row in a newbie game based on people misunderstanding my play.

Do you think that maybe the problem is that your play is deliberately antagonistic? Maybe you perform better as scum than as town because your play in-itself makes people not want to play the game?

They don't.

I can second this, and I’ve told you all of these things but in different words. Lucky isn’t being emotionally manipulative; you are just in the wrong, plain and simple, and are making the game more difficult. Heck, the only reason that I thought Marashu and 72 was townie is because they responded appropriately to you and called you out for your bull crap. But Lucky’s argument was convincing enough that I now have to reconsider my position on the two of them.

[Poyzin]

and are making the game more difficult

EBWOP
“more difficult for everyone”

[Poyzin]

LL did nothing AI.

Are you trolling?

[LuckyLuciano]

Yoooooo, Lucky is actually good! Here I was ready to just lynch that slot out of here, but their readslist I forgot to quote seems like a townie one. LL was the real winner out of this debate imo, jumps out of scumlean for me. (not a full townread because of the Jumble situation but small victories)

I probably skipped this part. What's the Jumble situation?

[Poyzin]

Yoooooo, Lucky is actually good! Here I was ready to just lynch that slot out of here, but their readslist I forgot to quote seems like a townie one. LL was the real winner out of this debate imo, jumps out of scumlean for me. (not a full townread because of the Jumble situation but small victories)

I probably skipped this part. What's the Jumble situation?

Basically, Jumble didn’t do any scum hunting the whole game, and all of his comments were either surface level observations or fence sitting reads where they said it was too soon to tell. When questioned about their vote they would unvote. They ended up defending themselves when they were at L-1 saying that they were not that good at the game, and that they didn’t care if they were lynched. This is what they said to that.

I

really

don't want to make this argument, but I think it's the only way I'm defending this.

I am just not good at mafia, as both sides. I make surface level comments because that's the only thing I can think of. I do fence-sitting simply because I didn't realize it was bad (actually, I didn't realize the term was used.) The Quick scumread was almost certainly out of annoyance and not much else. #13 was definitely a huge mistake. I used general language in #15 because again, I just couldn't think of much.

Don't think I'm that bad? Well, take a look at some of my previous games, or at least the attempts to play them.
Newbie 1866 - Canine Mafia Played a PR in this game, incredibly timid, slipped D1 and just lucked out with the jailkeep
Micro 838: A Miccro Normal Didn't mention much here that wasn't "surface level", eventually flaked out
Newbie 1902: Amphibians Replaced scum, was a "complete mess" and didn't win
Newbie 1871: Prey Same problem as Miccro Normal, literally said that I was better suited to Mish Mash and replaced out
Newbie 1095: Pictures From My Phone Okay, this one's actually kinda decent. Still doesn't help that I got lynched D1.
Newbie 1986 Again, the "surface level" thing strikes again, although I got into position to ask a few questions there. Ended up running out of things to post and flaked D1.
That still doesn't take into account the fact that I still am on Newbie status, even after two whole years.

I think I've shown pretty clearly that I don't really think highly of my own mafia skills. I mean, my wikipage literally has the line "Wishes he could play mafia" in it. That's all I really wanted to say. I'm probably getting hammered for this, and I don't care. At least now you know.

Alright. Thank you for this post.

The first thing that I wanted to say is that this post does not help your case too much. When the point that you're trying to sell is "I'm not good at mafia,

as both sides

", it speaks volumes, because it means that your whole post doesn't really help instill confidence that you're town, because you say you are bad as both town and mafia. For one, the fact that you mention being bad at both alignments could potentially be a scumslip in the sense that you admit to being bad as mafia, something that I can't imagine should never come up if you're actually town. And secondly, you have no reason to give up yet. We aren't even halfway done with the first Day yet, and you're still here. Have more confidence in yourself. When you say "I'm probably going to be hammered and I don't care", that's directly going against a town wincon, if you're town.

At the other hand, I completely sympathize with you here. My very first game of forum mafia was a role madness uPick, and I distinctly remember being told by another townie to "get off the fence". The reason why making safe comments and unopinionated comments is not ideal is because it's the only way that we can determine if you're town or not. If you go through the game without making any opinions, then how can you be evaluated properly? There's nothing in your ISO that allows me to get a read off of your point of view, and keeping a low-profile without making anybody upset is a scum-tactic. Remember this: the perspectives make the player. I agree that mafia can be a very hard game, especially on N1 where nobody has any decisive night results and we only have words to go off of. The best thing I can say to you, if you're town of course, is to throw your hat into the ring. Make a case and present your evidence. Heck, we probably won't care if you're wrong; town can be wrong too! All that matters is that we can follow your train of thought and understand where your head is at in the game, and we're golden.

With that out of the way, I'm still not a fan of Jumble's defense. I think that it addresses all of the wrong points. I don't think that the evidence to see "why Jumble is bad" was a good idea by any means, as they don't show any of Jumble's alignment-based tendencies besides making general observations, which can be made by either alignment. So in the end, nothing that Jumble said makes me think that they're townie. On the flipside, I do think that Jumble's tone was very earnest coming from somebody in their position, even if they said they didn't care if they were hammered. While that is a bit anti-town, it feels more like a frustrated townie rather than a manipulative scum, and feels completely honest over anything. I can't decide at the moment whether I feel like scum!Jumble would make a NAI defense or if they would defend themselves with something more based, because I could see both possibilities. Scum!Jumble COULD say "It's because I'm bad at mafia" as a reason for them to be spared, but as I mentioned earlier, they said they didn't care if they were lynched or not, so I can't really see this being the route that scum!Jumble would take. I'm inclined to believe from the tone that Jumble is an honest townie who is frustrated at the situation they're in because of their perceived lack of skill.

The only true grievance that I really have is that Jumble didn't make any mention of trying to improve. While I think #459 is completely honest and is Jumble's idea of how they can defend themselves as town, Jumble doesn't talk about how they could help in the future. Even if the tone is townie, the words themselves are not. Jumble, I'm going to need you to promise that you'll try to play better. Make opinions of your own, and back them up. I'd also like you to make another ISO, but I want it to be about why each player is townie or scummy, or null. If it's a null read, I would like you to say why they are null, not just "could go either way". That way, we can see the way you think. It doesn't even need to be right, and there's no way that it should be. However, if you continue to just make general observations without at least attempting to find scum, then I can say that you will just be a liability for town in the future. You signed up for this game, so if you're going to play, play.

UNVOTE: Jumble

I unvoted so that Jumble would feel better about responding to me, but they never did. I have a feeling that this post was a partial reason why they left, and I started to assume that they didn’t think they could make that promise BECAUSE they were scum. I initially felt that I was just going to end up lynching you today but you successfully changed my mind for the time being, and I feel alright with you as a townlean for now.

[Poyzin]

Tbh Lucky just probably ends up being town because of the last sentence in #461. I did want to play the game with Jumble, and didn’t intend for them to leave because of me.

[Quick]

@Quick you wanna stop lying buddy?

Prove I lied. I dare you.

[Quick]

Tbh Lucky just probably ends up being town because of the last sentence in #461. I did want to play the game with Jumble, and didn’t intend for them to leave because of me.

I see. So you are really gunning for a GB lynch..

[LuckyLuciano]

@Poly, I replaced gibus, not Jumble. Jumble's replacement has not yet been found.

[LuckyLuciano]

Also, in the future if you don't think a newbie knows how to properly scumhunt, please help them by showing them how to scumhunt or guiding their thoughts in such a way that they get into the habit of making more complex reads instead of diminishing the effort they do put forth. They might scumread you if they think you are trying to control their actions, but so what? It's a newbie game. Winning is not nearly as important as helping new players become comfortable with the game. I think that even though Jumble did not have giant wallposts like you did, his insights were both keen and made it very easy to read him as town. Both of which are valuable.

[Quick]

@LL,

Do you think you have done anything AI at this point in the game?

[LuckyLuciano]

Dunno. I don't do things because they are AI.

[Poyzin]

I read poker strategy, but have never posted in a poker forum

And yet, you somehow magically know the context of what I am talking about here. Too bad you can't answer my other questions, but I get you don't want to bury yourself in the grave you have dug.

Coolstorybro

I know. No one listens to me and it is sad. However, things are going to change, I can feel it.

Maybe if you actually came up with some content that was worth listening to....

I'm inclined to think that at least one of GB and Marashu are scum

FTFY (Sorry I will try not to be a grammar Nazi).

But this really needs unpacking.

Both have been very underwhelming, scant ISOs, lack of real hard-hitting game-related content. The sort of paly scum makes when there is a gamestate like players like Poyzin and Quick and myself going at each other.

Poyzin seems to think tryharding is Scum indicative. What are your thoughts on that?

Why are you still harping on about tryharding? I townlean Poyzin who you say is "tryharding" so obv I don;t think "tryharding" is scum indicative

You answered a question I didn't ask.

Depends what you and he define as "tryharding".
If he thinks tryharding is Scum indicative as you state, than so be it. Its NAI and a worthless line of enquiry imo.

Not really considering Poyzin still has zero comment on them either admitting tryharding more often comes from Scum OR whether he is tryharding or not.

I'm inclined to think that at least one of GB and Marashu are scum

FTFY (Sorry I will try not to be a grammar Nazi).

But this really needs unpacking.

Both have been very underwhelming, scant ISOs, lack of real hard-hitting game-related content. The sort of paly scum makes when there is a gamestate like players like Poyzin and Quick and myself going at each other.

Poyzin seems to think tryharding is Scum indicative. What are your thoughts on that?

Perhaps not "lying" per se, but spreading false truths about me even after you've reacted to the post where I say tryharding does not make somebody town or scum because having a consistent activity level is NAI.