Newbie 2004: Trash Panada Hour. Redux! GAME OVER

[Dunnstral]

I just read pages 45-50; I suggest all new troops take a look at those pages as well

[Dunnstral]

Doc/jk should probably breadcrumb their target from last night in case they die.

Doc/Jk can't breadcrumb anything when attention is called to it like this

[Dunnstral]

-VOTE: lilith2013 this slot needs sorting. Hi lilith would you like to join us more for day 2? Because otherwise you are exiting before day 3 kthxbai

She has 185 posts though, and she had most of those when you posted this. So what gives? That seems like plenty to me

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Blair

What I've seen from Freddie feels like scum. Votato looks like he is defending his irl friend without much in-game basis just because they're friends (just calling it how I see it). Formerfish looks like town. Osuka idk

[Dunnstral]

Replacement is a good suspect due to the whole issue of newbies replacing out of scum rolls in their first games.

Player List

Tuxedo Mask

CopyKat

BBmolla

Osuka

iamironcat *

gibus
Alortom

votato *

Nauci

feathers *

Blair

Freddiethelady *

Dunnstral

lilith2013 (SE)

Wavesarc

brassherald (SE) *

Battle Mage

Formerfish (SE)

[Dunnstral]

I am currently past page 8.

Spoiler: wall of notes

- 53: Freddie votes ironcat/osuka with what looks to be a “serious” reason, but the reason itself is not valid. Says ironcat/osuka is flipflopping but the two quotes she posted are from the first and then second game roll, so not a valid serious reason. It feels like she was trying to fit in with RVS but tried too hard to come up with a real reason for voting ironcat/osuka. Was this an actually serious vote? ( =/+ Freddie depending on answer)
- 81 to 84: Gibus asks feathers/nausi if they are scum. Feathers/nausi claims VT and then gibus “claims” VT and votes feathers/nausi in the same post. Gibus’ vote seems like simultaneously “noobtownslipping” but voting feathers/nausi for doing the same thing. ( + gibus; - gibus & feathers/nausi team)
- 93 to 95: Gibus votes Freddie, says he’s trying to get us out of RVS, then votes brass/wavesarc. The reasoning behind switching the votes around isn’t really valid but I don’t think it’s AI.
- 110: Votato asks me why I voted gibus, but doesn’t explain why he voted gibus. Could be trying to soft defend a scumbuddy here ( + votato; possibly + votato & gibus team)
- 111: Feathers/nausi is townreading votato and maybe Freddie (but doesn’t give reasons for townreading Freddie); scumreading gibus but doesn’t vote gibus; and scumreading people who are “lurking” but actually weren’t lurking, including me, who he is voting. Reads on Freddie and gibus are probably the weirdest here. ( + feathers; + feathers/nausi & Freddie team; + feathers/nausi & gibus team; - feathers/nausi & votato team)
- 115: votato seems to be either strongly townreading feathers or TMIing (“since you’re town” seems like votato knows feathers is town here when town!votato wouldn’t know feathers’ alignment for sure). Will need to watch out for future posts implying one or the other. Also some soft defense of me. ( + votato)
- 116: Freddie is fencesitting on gibus (“Gibus seems too sloppy to be suspicious but it could be an act”) then questions why I voted gibus right after votato asks the same question, even though I just explained it. Further shades me for “being more experienced than I’m letting on” even though that like… isn’t possible, since I’m not trying to hide experience.. Could be noobscum following in scumpartner votato’s footsteps in questioning me and defending gibus, resulting in trying to shade my slot without actually hard pushing; or possibly scum!freddie getting overly concerned with my vote on scumpartner gibus ( + Freddie; + Freddie & votato team; + Freddie & gibus team)
- 119: Freddie calls me out for defending ironcat/osuka when all I said was that he wasn’t lurking, but also says it might not be AI but is “interesting.” More fencesitting. Probably wouldn’t call someone out who was siding with their scumpartner, so less likely to be scum with ironcat/osuka slot. ( + Freddie; - Freddie & ironcat/osuka team)
- 120: a bit more soft defense of my slot from votato.
- 122: feathers/nausi says vote is on gibus because switching votes a lot and wanting RVS to end are scum indicative, which is actually wrong. Ironcat/osuka later uses this reasoning to scumread me. Not sure if this is AI in either case, as the logic is just bad but not necessarily scummy.
- 124: Freddie shades me for “not posting much, casting votes and defending someone. Not trying to sort out the rules, clarify things or understand people better” being suspicious. Immediately backs off after my response. Could go either way on this one.
- 129: more soft defense of my slot from votato. I think could be trying to buddy me. ( + votato)
- 137 and 140: Ironcat/osuka votes Freddie for questioning gibus’ ping ponging votes, and says Freddie is trying to “buddy him with Lilith.” What does this even mean? Also Freddie isn’t the one who called ironcat/osuka out for lurking, it was gibus; and Freddie didn’t push ironcat/osuka at all. This seems like an overly focused post to Freddie when Freddie isn’t even scumreading or pushing ironcat/osuka. Likely not SvS. ( + ironcat/osuka; - ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)
- 144: gibus says at least one of me/Freddie is town. Votato immediately pops into thread to ask why. Gibus responds that freddie’s and my argument about whether I was defending ironcat looks like “something we would have gone through in a PT if they both were scum.” Then says “little chance for [distancing] since Lilith planned on leaving RVS by voting for me, and shifting the spotlight to both of them would look bad as scum.” This looks like town reasoning, although I disagree that this kind of disagreement couldn’t be manufactured by scumpartners. ( - gibus)
- 148: Ironcat/osuka says “it’s funny how Freddie is saying that flipping is a mafia move,” again incorrectly ascribing someone else’s post (feathers) to Freddie in order to build a read on them. Then ironcat/osuka FOSes me for reasons unclear, says I would “put the blame on Freddie.” Suddenly switches to townread on Freddie and scumread on me with no explanation and no additional posts from either Freddie or myself to inform that change in read. A weird interaction, I think it’s more likely to be scum flipping read on town than two scumpartners. ( + ironcat/osuka; - ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)
- 151: Feathers/nausi questions ironcat/osuka – why is ironcat/osuka voting Freddie but also worried Freddie would be blamed for a kill?
- 155 to 159: Ironcat/osuka responds with “don’t worry, I’m suspicious of you as well. Who said that Freddie would be blamed?” when…. that’s exactly what he said about Freddie. In 157, he’s still supposedly scumreading Freddie though, and in 159 says that if I’m scum, that I could kill people who suspect me and blame Freddie since ironcat/osuka suspected Freddie too. Once again, this implies townreading Freddie even though reads list says Freddie is a scumread. Could be inadvertent TMI (knows Freddie is town). Also I’m the highest scumread even though ironcat/osuka only suspects me by association with Freddie.. This is a cagey way to start scumreading me and pushing original Freddie read to the side. ( + ironcat/osuka; + ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)
- 160 and 161: votato votes ironcat/osuka for misunderstanding ironcat/osuka’s list as being “all the scumreads” rather than “list of scummiest to towniest.” Not sure if AI, but could be trying to soft defend me or Freddie here since those are ironcat/osuka’s two top scumreads. ( + votato & Freddie team)
- In 153, gibus says “quicksolve: brass, Lilith, formerfish” but doesn’t vote brass until several hours later in 166, as if he forgot that he should be voting who he scumreads most and had to be reminded. ( + gibus)
- 189: ironcat/osuka and votato misunderstanding over the “suspicion list” doesn’t seem like SvS. Ironcat/osuka’s explanation for why he is scumreading Freddie doesn’t actually mention Freddie at all. ( + ironcat/osuka; - ironcat/osuka & votato team)
- 190 and 192: Ironcat/osuka suddenly votes me based on associatives, horrible reason to vote. He hasn’t found anything that I’ve actually done up to this point that is scummy, but is voting me based on association with Freddie. Freddie suddenly becomes his strongest townread, so they could be scumpartners intending to both end up pushing me all along. ( + ironcat/osuka; + ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)

Spoiler: conclusions thus far

scumpool of {freddie, ironcat/osuka, votato}
- votato seemed to be soft defending me from freddie as well as soft defending me & freddie from ironcat/osuka, which comes across as WKing or chainsaw if freddie is also scum; also has a very strong townread on feathers/nausi which could be TMIing on that slot.
- freddie was fencesitting on gibus yet in the same post soft defending him; and was fencesitty on me when I said ironcat wasn't lurking. Also shaded me/others for things that weren't AI (including the "lurking", "being more experienced than I'm letting on" and not being friendly/helpful enough).
- ironcat seems to focus overly much on pushing freddie slot and calling them scum. He called me scum by association with Freddie, then after being questioned, suddenly flipped his read on Freddie without flipping the read on me that was formed by association with a scum!Freddie. He didn't provide any other reason for scumreading me.

Questions up to this point:

@Freddie, was 53 actually a serious vote?
@votato, why did you vote gibus in 78?

For freddie to be town here, there are so many exact pieces that have to not line up in her thought process for her to claim after a hammer on someone else.

Here's the sequence of events:
1) she put wave to L-1 and knew to announce it
2) I declared intent to hammer and asked wave to claim
3) wave claimed
4) wave voted freddie to L-1
5) fish fakehammered
6) votato said in 1088 that wasn't a hammer, he was already on the wagon
7) literally no one has asked freddie to claim thus far. votato even says no need to claim since no one has declared intent to hammer.
8) fish hammers wave and it's clear they are discussing wave having already been lynched.
9) freddie claims VT.

so freddie claimed:
- after freddie herself was the one who declared waves at L-1
- after she sees someone hammering waves
- after no one told her to claim or declared intent to hammer her
- after votato specifically said not to claim
- after multiple people are clearly discussing waves already being dead

She has to have not seen

all of these things

in order for town!freddie to think she needs to claim, which makes literally no sense because she was the one who put waves at L-1 in the first place. If she was confused about the gamestate, she could have even asked, "am I supposed to claim?" to make sure. There's literally no need for her to claim. at all.

so why claim then?

for towncred. like, look at me being so noobtown that I claim even when I'm not the lynch. I can't even tell when someone else's wagon was hammered! That can't be real.

I think these posts are awesome so I'm calling attention to them

Gibus & Tuxedo Mask, do you guys agree or disagree with the contents of these posts?

[Aloratom]

From what I've read, that claim looks bad. VOTE: blair

[Blair]

My final word on the claim topic (again, I can't really explain my predecessor's posts - which makes it a convenient avenue, by the way) is this:

The whole case against it boils down to, "No way Freddie was THAT much of a newb." To which I submit: This is Freddie's second game, and first time claiming. He subbed into his first game and it ended with him sitting on 30~ posts and not voting in LyLo.

This was Freddie's first time claiming. If he were scum, wouldn't his questions about it, which he asked on the thread, have been asked in the Scum PT?

It's also mildly scummy that Lilith acknowledged Votsto's answer ("You don't need to claim") because it bolstered her case but didn't acknowledge Formerfish's answer ("Claim but just say PR if you're a PR") - even though that is evidently the post Freddie responded to when he claimed.

"This is so obviously scummy that the only explanation can be that he did it for towncred," is a tad dramatic, when, "He evidently WAS that much of a newb," seems the likelier answer.

I should conclude my reread tonight.

[BBmolla]

Ayy lmao poor gibus he’s the only one left

Hey BM please be on my team and let’s win this one

[BBmolla]

I’m at my parents reading war and peace so I’m sure I will have time for this today

[Aloratom]

Even if it's the case that Freddie was a flustered newb, that's all we're gong to be talking about and it's best just to move on.

[Battle Mage]

I just read pages 45-50; I suggest all new troops take a look at those pages as well

all new troops? that's pretty much everyone then!

Replacement is a good suspect due to the whole issue of newbies replacing out of scum rolls in their first games.

Player List

Tuxedo Mask

CopyKat

BBmolla

Osuka

iamironcat *

gibus
Alortom

votato *

Nauci

feathers *

Blair

Freddiethelady *

Dunnstral

lilith2013 (SE)

Wavesarc

brassherald (SE) *

Battle Mage

Formerfish (SE)

Does this mean we win?

Ayy lmao poor gibus he’s the only one left

Hey BM please be on my team and let’s win this one

I've won 100% of my replace-in games dude, so if you're town, it's a cert (although it may be in spite of me, rather than because of me...)!

[Battle Mage]

I can't very reasonably defend my predecessor's actions (as I cannot explain them any better than anyone else), nor can I objectively survey them (I know he was town), so I'll just provide the post Battle Mage is referring to for everyone's ease of reference:

Spoiler:

@Freddie why aren't you voting FF? And what about FF do you find scummy?
Do you scum read Copycat/Me? But I'm most interested in your read of Copycat's posts. And do you scum read Osuka/Ironcat? I'm more interested in your thoughts on Osuka's posts though.

Freddie, can you answer this?

Ironcat was unvoted by me. We established that, I could have been wrong but it seemed reasonable to me so I acted on it. Osuka has been just shitting on everyone’s posts and being loud. The loudness may be an attempted substance but I can’t read it yet.

Fish, what’s a vanity vote?

I’m not voting fish atm because I think he’s scummy but it might be deliberate. It reminds me of the quote “I think a servant of the enemy would look fairer and feel fouler”. I’m still not sure enough to vote him, which is why I never voted him.

How do I officially claim my role? Do I send a screen shot of my message from Elmo? I’m not scum.

Vanity vote is a vote on a wagon that has no legs, you vote there because youre vain and think you know better.

You claim by saying what you are, if youre a town pr I would just say PR for right now, so we dont clue scum in anymore than needed.

do NOT send a screenshot. you cant quote or anything like that. you dont need to claim since no one has stated intent to hammer. a vanity wagon is one that doesnt have momentum, so basically wasting your vote on a non-wagon. also, are you feeling FF to know how foul he feels?

Okay, guys. My role is VT. I’m shit at lying. I’m just bad at this game! Did waves officially claim also?

Thanks for the vanity-vote explanation.

I’m trying to feel him. But I think he’s not scum. Gut feeling.

I think they are going to get me either way and I have no PR. Hahaha I’m so bad strategically. I’m like the squirrel in the Rose that gets killed cause I’m indecisive! Bye everyone

It seems fairly evident to me that Freddie was a flustered newbie who didn't understand when or if he should claim. He also received contradictory advice when he asked, with one person telling him not to claim at all, and another telling him to claim but not to specify his exact role if he is a PR.

With the benefit of experience and competency, I can infer that the latter advice was meant to be for *if* Freddie chose to claim, and was not expressly commanding him to do so, but I doubt a flustered newbie would be able to confidently discern the difference.

Battle Mage, can you explain exactly what you believe Freddie's thought process was with regards to the alleged "slip" in the his claim?

Hi Blair! You're from Hertfordshire? I used to live there! small world...

I don't think you need me to explain anything there, as it's fairly simple, you seem bright and Dunnstral has it well covered.

[Battle Mage]

My final word on the claim topic (again, I can't really explain my predecessor's posts - which makes it a convenient avenue, by the way) is this:

The whole case against it boils down to, "No way Freddie was THAT much of a newb." To which I submit: This is Freddie's second game, and first time claiming. He subbed into his first game and it ended with him sitting on 30~ posts and not voting in LyLo.

This was Freddie's first time claiming. If he were scum, wouldn't his questions about it, which he asked on the thread, have been asked in the Scum PT?

It's also mildly scummy that Lilith acknowledged Votsto's answer ("You don't need to claim") because it bolstered her case but didn't acknowledge Formerfish's answer ("Claim but just say PR if you're a PR") - even though that is evidently the post Freddie responded to when he claimed.

"This is so obviously scummy that the only explanation can be that he did it for towncred," is a tad dramatic, when, "He evidently WAS that much of a newb," seems the likelier answer.

I should conclude my reread tonight.

I agree somewhat with this. The Lillith argument was not strong - in fact, if she's right about the sequence of events, it seems like a baffling thing for newbscum Freddie to be doing - way too conspicuous. I'll need to read back to check if she was right.

I'll UNVOTE: for the time being.

[Aloratom]

I'd go back and read some more, but I'd rather just work on my telekinetic powers or do something useful like that.

Maybe start RVS over? Hi, I'm Aloratom. I like long walks on the beach.

[Battle Mage]

in fairness to Freddie, his ISO is hugely entertaining if a little eccentric. he obviously isn't a complete newb though, he drops some lingo in there at the time on occasion.

Could I buy him as a wacky shade of vanilla? Yeah I guess. Interesting that he thinks scum would act inconspicuously, given his obvious attempt to be as conspicuous as possible (although still quite a bold gambit).

Worth noting that in his only completed game, as town, he declared he was "trying to keep his alignment a secret". Which is a similar level of slip as he has here.

My gut feeling overall is TOWN. So I'm taking Dunnstral out of my town-bucket, as Lillith could easily have been an opportunistic SE picking on a newbie with a weak case (notable as a stronger case was there to be made).

Town: BM, Blair, Aloratom

[Battle Mage]

day 1 lynch wagon

Wavesarc (Brassherald) (5) - gibus, Nauci, votato,

Freddiethelady, Formerfish,

must be 1 scum on right?

Who is Nauci and Votato now?

[Battle Mage]

ah Votato is Alora-town.

So let's lynch Nauci or Gibus. I'm backing Gibus!

VOTE: gibus

[Nauci]

Welcome one and all! Gibus and I will be your guides.

???

[Nauci]

Greetings!

I was promised panadas.

88% of living players in this game are replacements. This presents a unique challenge! I'll review the thread over the next 24 hours.

Gibus, as the sole remainder of the original playlist, can I trouble you for a tl;dr?

Yaaaasssssss

[Nauci]

Hey BM. Yeah, well at least it's not AI. Once I get around to reading fish's iso, we'll see. I'm sure it's going to be "you think I'm mad... You haven't seen me mad. I've been a nice little boy so far."

How did you know?

P.S. your slot is locktown

[Battle Mage]

Hey BM. Yeah, well at least it's not AI. Once I get around to reading fish's iso, we'll see. I'm sure it's going to be "you think I'm mad... You haven't seen me mad. I've been a nice little boy so far."

How did you know?

P.S. your slot is locktown

pfft, only cause I said so.

[Nauci]

Greetings!

I was promised panadas.

88% of living players in this game are replacements. This presents a unique challenge! I'll review the thread over the next 24 hours.

Gibus, as the sole remainder of the original playlist, can I trouble you for a tl;dr?

Wavesarc, Fred and CopyKat were the main wagons of D1.
Votato was scumread by lilith and waves for not pushing his scumreads.
Fred claimed even though someone else got hammered. FF, osuka, lilith speculated that this was scummy. Votato was very confident that it came from a town mindset, which made others think that votato could flip scum if Fred flipped town/Fred could flip scum if votato flipped scum.

But we (I, but I believe Osuka agreed) settled on votato being definitely town regardless of Freddie's alignment because it would be insane of him to throw away his generally town read status to quintuple down on defending Freddie for any reason other than genuinely town reading her because of IRL meta knowledge

Did you exclude this from your summary because you disagree... Or?

[BBmolla]

I'm on page 2, Lillith (now Dunn) is scum for helping in 40

Feather (Nauci) is town for townslipping

gibus is town for being excited and unafraid

former was kind of being a douche

gibus is fucking hilarious

also, I looked up noob on the mafiawiki page of abbreviations and couldn't find it. would someone explain what it means, please.

how

lilith is for sure scum

I think copykat's switch from defending gibus ("scum wouldn't be trying to out masons in this thread") to attacking a "scumslip" feel contrived to me, like he is trying to get on the bandwagon as fast as possible and needs something to attack gibus for. Typically I think scum are more likely to attack something like that so suddenly and aggressively.

VOTE: copykat

I think this is L-2

disgusting vote

[BBmolla]

Blair's replace in post sucks, that slot is probably scum

Dunn/Blair gg

I'm still reading I'mon page 20