Newbie 2004: Trash Panada Hour. Redux! GAME OVER

[Battle Mage]

I don't want to think about lillith being scum today, as Dunnstral is a breath of fresh air and I couldn't bear to lynch him yet.

[Battle Mage]

BBMolla, Blair is locktown with Aloratom!

[Nauci]

-VOTE: lilith2013 this slot needs sorting. Hi lilith would you like to join us more for day 2? Because otherwise you are exiting before day 3 kthxbai

She has 185 posts though, and she had most of those when you posted this. So what gives? That seems like plenty to me

Her posts on day 1 were a mixture of thought processes that felt towny and that I followed, and posts which had a scummy vibe. She even called out another player for Beetlejuicing but was doing so herself. I considered her day 1 largely NAI and wanted to see meatier content day 2 so I could sort her.

[BBmolla]

BBMolla, Blair is locktown with Aloratom!

what does that mean

[BBmolla]

more important question, why is 2013 in lillith's name

surely she can't have been born then

so what is its significance

hm

[Nauci]

I think these posts are awesome so I'm calling attention to them

I thought the post was excellent but I also thought it was largely NAI because it's a very high effort IIOA summary of events

[BBmolla]

Freddie's claim LMFAO

[Battle Mage]

Freddie's claim LMFAO

I miss Freddie already. We need to find him and join his game.

[Battle Mage]

I think these posts are awesome so I'm calling attention to them

I thought the post was excellent but I also thought it was largely NAI because it's a very high effort IIOA summary of events

I don't think you can argue it was an excellent post as the logic wasn't good, but high effort is a very valid point. Definitely could be from town I suppose!

[Tuxedo Mask]

Spoiler:

I am currently past page 8.

Spoiler: wall of notes

- 53: Freddie votes ironcat/osuka with what looks to be a “serious” reason, but the reason itself is not valid. Says ironcat/osuka is flipflopping but the two quotes she posted are from the first and then second game roll, so not a valid serious reason. It feels like she was trying to fit in with RVS but tried too hard to come up with a real reason for voting ironcat/osuka. Was this an actually serious vote? ( =/+ Freddie depending on answer)
- 81 to 84: Gibus asks feathers/nausi if they are scum. Feathers/nausi claims VT and then gibus “claims” VT and votes feathers/nausi in the same post. Gibus’ vote seems like simultaneously “noobtownslipping” but voting feathers/nausi for doing the same thing. ( + gibus; - gibus & feathers/nausi team)
- 93 to 95: Gibus votes Freddie, says he’s trying to get us out of RVS, then votes brass/wavesarc. The reasoning behind switching the votes around isn’t really valid but I don’t think it’s AI.
- 110: Votato asks me why I voted gibus, but doesn’t explain why he voted gibus. Could be trying to soft defend a scumbuddy here ( + votato; possibly + votato & gibus team)
- 111: Feathers/nausi is townreading votato and maybe Freddie (but doesn’t give reasons for townreading Freddie); scumreading gibus but doesn’t vote gibus; and scumreading people who are “lurking” but actually weren’t lurking, including me, who he is voting. Reads on Freddie and gibus are probably the weirdest here. ( + feathers; + feathers/nausi & Freddie team; + feathers/nausi & gibus team; - feathers/nausi & votato team)
- 115: votato seems to be either strongly townreading feathers or TMIing (“since you’re town” seems like votato knows feathers is town here when town!votato wouldn’t know feathers’ alignment for sure). Will need to watch out for future posts implying one or the other. Also some soft defense of me. ( + votato)
- 116: Freddie is fencesitting on gibus (“Gibus seems too sloppy to be suspicious but it could be an act”) then questions why I voted gibus right after votato asks the same question, even though I just explained it. Further shades me for “being more experienced than I’m letting on” even though that like… isn’t possible, since I’m not trying to hide experience.. Could be noobscum following in scumpartner votato’s footsteps in questioning me and defending gibus, resulting in trying to shade my slot without actually hard pushing; or possibly scum!freddie getting overly concerned with my vote on scumpartner gibus ( + Freddie; + Freddie & votato team; + Freddie & gibus team)
- 119: Freddie calls me out for defending ironcat/osuka when all I said was that he wasn’t lurking, but also says it might not be AI but is “interesting.” More fencesitting. Probably wouldn’t call someone out who was siding with their scumpartner, so less likely to be scum with ironcat/osuka slot. ( + Freddie; - Freddie & ironcat/osuka team)
- 120: a bit more soft defense of my slot from votato.
- 122: feathers/nausi says vote is on gibus because switching votes a lot and wanting RVS to end are scum indicative, which is actually wrong. Ironcat/osuka later uses this reasoning to scumread me. Not sure if this is AI in either case, as the logic is just bad but not necessarily scummy.
- 124: Freddie shades me for “not posting much, casting votes and defending someone. Not trying to sort out the rules, clarify things or understand people better” being suspicious. Immediately backs off after my response. Could go either way on this one.
- 129: more soft defense of my slot from votato. I think could be trying to buddy me. ( + votato)
- 137 and 140: Ironcat/osuka votes Freddie for questioning gibus’ ping ponging votes, and says Freddie is trying to “buddy him with Lilith.” What does this even mean? Also Freddie isn’t the one who called ironcat/osuka out for lurking, it was gibus; and Freddie didn’t push ironcat/osuka at all. This seems like an overly focused post to Freddie when Freddie isn’t even scumreading or pushing ironcat/osuka. Likely not SvS. ( + ironcat/osuka; - ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)
- 144: gibus says at least one of me/Freddie is town. Votato immediately pops into thread to ask why. Gibus responds that freddie’s and my argument about whether I was defending ironcat looks like “something we would have gone through in a PT if they both were scum.” Then says “little chance for [distancing] since Lilith planned on leaving RVS by voting for me, and shifting the spotlight to both of them would look bad as scum.” This looks like town reasoning, although I disagree that this kind of disagreement couldn’t be manufactured by scumpartners. ( - gibus)
- 148: Ironcat/osuka says “it’s funny how Freddie is saying that flipping is a mafia move,” again incorrectly ascribing someone else’s post (feathers) to Freddie in order to build a read on them. Then ironcat/osuka FOSes me for reasons unclear, says I would “put the blame on Freddie.” Suddenly switches to townread on Freddie and scumread on me with no explanation and no additional posts from either Freddie or myself to inform that change in read. A weird interaction, I think it’s more likely to be scum flipping read on town than two scumpartners. ( + ironcat/osuka; - ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)
- 151: Feathers/nausi questions ironcat/osuka – why is ironcat/osuka voting Freddie but also worried Freddie would be blamed for a kill?
- 155 to 159: Ironcat/osuka responds with “don’t worry, I’m suspicious of you as well. Who said that Freddie would be blamed?” when…. that’s exactly what he said about Freddie. In 157, he’s still supposedly scumreading Freddie though, and in 159 says that if I’m scum, that I could kill people who suspect me and blame Freddie since ironcat/osuka suspected Freddie too. Once again, this implies townreading Freddie even though reads list says Freddie is a scumread. Could be inadvertent TMI (knows Freddie is town). Also I’m the highest scumread even though ironcat/osuka only suspects me by association with Freddie.. This is a cagey way to start scumreading me and pushing original Freddie read to the side. ( + ironcat/osuka; + ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)
- 160 and 161: votato votes ironcat/osuka for misunderstanding ironcat/osuka’s list as being “all the scumreads” rather than “list of scummiest to towniest.” Not sure if AI, but could be trying to soft defend me or Freddie here since those are ironcat/osuka’s two top scumreads. ( + votato & Freddie team)
- In 153, gibus says “quicksolve: brass, Lilith, formerfish” but doesn’t vote brass until several hours later in 166, as if he forgot that he should be voting who he scumreads most and had to be reminded. ( + gibus)
- 189: ironcat/osuka and votato misunderstanding over the “suspicion list” doesn’t seem like SvS. Ironcat/osuka’s explanation for why he is scumreading Freddie doesn’t actually mention Freddie at all. ( + ironcat/osuka; - ironcat/osuka & votato team)
- 190 and 192: Ironcat/osuka suddenly votes me based on associatives, horrible reason to vote. He hasn’t found anything that I’ve actually done up to this point that is scummy, but is voting me based on association with Freddie. Freddie suddenly becomes his strongest townread, so they could be scumpartners intending to both end up pushing me all along. ( + ironcat/osuka; + ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)

Spoiler: conclusions thus far

scumpool of {freddie, ironcat/osuka, votato}
- votato seemed to be soft defending me from freddie as well as soft defending me & freddie from ironcat/osuka, which comes across as WKing or chainsaw if freddie is also scum; also has a very strong townread on feathers/nausi which could be TMIing on that slot.
- freddie was fencesitting on gibus yet in the same post soft defending him; and was fencesitty on me when I said ironcat wasn't lurking. Also shaded me/others for things that weren't AI (including the "lurking", "being more experienced than I'm letting on" and not being friendly/helpful enough).
- ironcat seems to focus overly much on pushing freddie slot and calling them scum. He called me scum by association with Freddie, then after being questioned, suddenly flipped his read on Freddie without flipping the read on me that was formed by association with a scum!Freddie. He didn't provide any other reason for scumreading me.

Questions up to this point:

@Freddie, was 53 actually a serious vote?
@votato, why did you vote gibus in 78?

For freddie to be town here, there are so many exact pieces that have to not line up in her thought process for her to claim after a hammer on someone else.

Here's the sequence of events:
1) she put wave to L-1 and knew to announce it
2) I declared intent to hammer and asked wave to claim
3) wave claimed
4) wave voted freddie to L-1
5) fish fakehammered
6) votato said in 1088 that wasn't a hammer, he was already on the wagon
7) literally no one has asked freddie to claim thus far. votato even says no need to claim since no one has declared intent to hammer.
8) fish hammers wave and it's clear they are discussing wave having already been lynched.
9) freddie claims VT.

so freddie claimed:
- after freddie herself was the one who declared waves at L-1
- after she sees someone hammering waves
- after no one told her to claim or declared intent to hammer her
- after votato specifically said not to claim
- after multiple people are clearly discussing waves already being dead

She has to have not seen

all of these things

in order for town!freddie to think she needs to claim, which makes literally no sense because she was the one who put waves at L-1 in the first place. If she was confused about the gamestate, she could have even asked, "am I supposed to claim?" to make sure. There's literally no need for her to claim. at all.

so why claim then?

for towncred. like, look at me being so noobtown that I claim even when I'm not the lynch. I can't even tell when someone else's wagon was hammered! That can't be real.

I think these posts are awesome so I'm calling attention to them

Gibus & Tuxedo Mask, do you guys agree or disagree with the contents of these posts?

I think it's a well written and accurate depiction of events, Lilith was my strongest town read before everything went sideways, but I'm still torn on the conclusion.

I think Votato and Freddie's play are both extremely weird, but with just how emotional things got I feel really torn. I really feel it is either S/S or T/T and I'm leaning T at the moment with Freddie and Vota being genuine.

Welcome one and all! Gibus and I will be your guides.

???

I'm so sorry, I honestly didn't realize you didn't replace as well. Thanks for staying though! I'm just planning on letting al 5(?!) new players become settled before weighing in on much. I'm pretty lost at the moment.

Actually UNVOTE: BBMola.

[BBmolla]

What will happen to this theory when I flip town?

When are you dying?

I fucking laughed out loud in the middle of the kitchen

[BBmolla]

Lildunn is still scum, we should lynch that slot BM

[Nauci]

Greetings!

I was promised panadas.

88% of living players in this game are replacements. This presents a unique challenge! I'll review the thread over the next 24 hours.

Gibus, as the sole remainder of the original playlist, can I trouble you for a tl;dr?

Wavesarc, Fred and CopyKat were the main wagons of D1.
Votato was scumread by lilith and waves for not pushing his scumreads.
Fred claimed even though someone else got hammered. FF, osuka, lilith speculated that this was scummy. Votato was very confident that it came from a town mindset, which made others think that votato could flip scum if Fred flipped town/Fred could flip scum if votato flipped scum.

I'm actually still not sure what Tuxedo thought of it

I know that I didn't think much of the original claim post, but many subsequent posts such as the one trying to distance from any blame for the wavesarc lunch struck me as scummy

[Nauci]

Blair I wish you had repped into the votato slot so you could carry us all to glorious victory

Alas

[Tuxedo Mask]

Greetings!

I was promised panadas.

88% of living players in this game are replacements. This presents a unique challenge! I'll review the thread over the next 24 hours.

Gibus, as the sole remainder of the original playlist, can I trouble you for a tl;dr?

Wavesarc, Fred and CopyKat were the main wagons of D1.
Votato was scumread by lilith and waves for not pushing his scumreads.
Fred claimed even though someone else got hammered. FF, osuka, lilith speculated that this was scummy. Votato was very confident that it came from a town mindset, which made others think that votato could flip scum if Fred flipped town/Fred could flip scum if votato flipped scum.

I'm actually still not sure what Tuxedo thought of it

I know that I didn't think much of the original claim post, but many subsequent posts such as the one trying to distance from any blame for the wavesarc lunch struck me as scummy

I didn't know what to make of it, I was there watching the whole thing unfold. I think the speed at which it all happened, and the general confusion from that is important to think about that a recap and reread doesn't do justice. My inability to really attribute scum or town to it, and how toxic the conversation was why I asked people to talk about something else at the start of Day 2.

[Nauci]

I'd go back and read some more, but I'd rather just work on my telekinetic powers or do something useful like that.

Maybe start RVS over? Hi, I'm Aloratom. I like long walks on the beach.

I wish this could be the case because I'd love to entirely forget about The Purge

[BBmolla]

this game got heated

okay boys where we at, I'm pretty confident in that Lillith/Dunn slot being scum, unsure of the other

[Nauci]

he obviously isn't a complete newb though, he drops some lingo in there at the time on occasion.

How does this comport with Freddie's post saying they thought that scum didn't know who town was, and like, needed to figure out town before PR could protect them?

[Battle Mage]

this game got heated

okay boys where we at, I'm pretty confident in that Lillith/Dunn slot being scum, unsure of the other

theres 1 scum in Nauci-Gibus. I'm not too sure which - who do you like and I'll go with ya?

[Nauci]

ah Votato is Alora-town.

So let's lynch Nauci or Gibus. I'm backing Gibus!

VOTE: gibus

Is this based on posts as well or just wagon analysis?

[Tuxedo Mask]

this game got heated

okay boys where we at, I'm pretty confident in that Lillith/Dunn slot being scum, unsure of the other

theres 1 scum in Nauci-Gibus. I'm not too sure which - who do you like and I'll go with ya?

Why do you say that? I've had gut pings on Gibus, but feathers seemed pretty obv town.

[Battle Mage]

he obviously isn't a complete newb though, he drops some lingo in there at the time on occasion.

How does this comport with Freddie's post saying they thought that scum didn't know who town was, and like, needed to figure out town before PR could protect them?

yeah he was a bit of a newb but he obviously picked some stuff up

[BBmolla]

this game got heated

okay boys where we at, I'm pretty confident in that Lillith/Dunn slot being scum, unsure of the other

theres 1 scum in Nauci-Gibus. I'm not too sure which - who do you like and I'll go with ya?

they're both town though

why do you say this friendo

[Battle Mage]

this game got heated

okay boys where we at, I'm pretty confident in that Lillith/Dunn slot being scum, unsure of the other

theres 1 scum in Nauci-Gibus. I'm not too sure which - who do you like and I'll go with ya?

Why do you say that? I've had gut pings on Gibus, but feathers seemed pretty obv town.

Day 1 wagon bound to have 1 scum on it I reckon, those are the only 2 on there who aren't obvtown to me anyway.

Gibus is probably my preferred - only guy who didn't replace out, scum?

[Nauci]

Hey BM. Yeah, well at least it's not AI. Once I get around to reading fish's iso, we'll see. I'm sure it's going to be "you think I'm mad... You haven't seen me mad. I've been a nice little boy so far."

How did you know?

P.S. your slot is locktown

If you've got experience with FF, do you know if, in his scum games, he also stirs up as much activity as he did? My town read of him is heavily based on the fact that even though he was frequently anti town, he stirred up way more activity in this game than was necessary which he wouldn't have reasons to do if he's scum.