Newbie 2004: Trash Panada Hour. Redux! GAME OVER

[gibus]

I didn't tunnel.
He was null here - #391

This appears to be lean-scum? I don't actually see a null section.

#452

[Blair]

Ok, can you explain your progression? When did he become null and why did you then switch back to scum!Brass when FormerFish started a new wagon on him?

[Blair]

(Dunnstral should also weigh in soon with his actual opinion instead of continuing to frame this as a conversation between Gibus and myself)

[Dunnstral]

If you disagree, say so and provide evidence, instead of asking vague questions without acknowledging the posts and vote history I have already provided in the post you quoted.

(Dunnstral should also weigh in soon with his actual opinion instead of continuing to frame this as a conversation between Gibus and myself)

My opinion is that you're strangely aggressive over what is essentially a misunderstanding

[Blair]

We've played together before, Dunnstral; I'm strangely aggressive all the time, but I don't feel like I've been aggressive about this?

[Blair]

Talk to me about Gibus. What's your theory?

[Dunnstral]

We've played together before, Dunnstral; I'm strangely aggressive all the time, but I don't feel like I've been aggressive about this?

ok

I'm not trying to frame anything, I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to do; I read it and it looks like you're trying to put forward a theory that gibus is scum, and outlining what he is doing as scum and how it is scummy, my initial response was that I didn't see how it was more likely to be a scum tactic than someone changing their read as the day goes on.

Granted, I haven't read the entire push onto Wave by Gibus/Formerfish

[Dunnstral]

So I don't really have a 'theory' relating to Gibus, I was reacting to the posts you quoted and your response to it

[Blair]

The tunnel isn't scummy by itself - the juxtaposition of Gibus' awkward tunnel and FormerFish's awkward bookending of the mislynch together present such a peculiar circumstance that I want to explore it with rope.

[gibus]

Ok, can you explain your progression? When did he become null and why did you then switch back to scum!Brass when FormerFish started a new wagon on him?

He was always a null read until I scumread him.
I was convinced by Nauci's and FF's read on him, so my opinion changed.

CopyKat was a stronger read at that point, but the way FF defended him made me pursue a specific line of thought, which was proved to be wrong in D2.

[Dunnstral]

1) mafia is a mental and perception game. If you're going to be an asshole and get on everyone's cases when people discuss what your actions imply about your motivations, then you may want to reconsider playing this game. this is now the.. second? time you've been an asshole to someone because they were looking at how your posts represent your motivations, which is literally the point of the game.
2) I haven't even tried to ascribe emotions to you in the first place. here I'm saying that you are acting angry, not that you're angry.
3) if you're not actually upset when you've made these posts, then you're just being way more of an asshole than you need to be.
4) where did you tell me to "ask about you"?
5) I haven't "targeted" you at all, I think it's interesting that you seem to think I've picked you out of the crowd when I'm literally voting someone else and have interacted with multiple other slots.
6) I'm not particularly interested in engaging with people who are being assholes as a principle, but I'll happily be an asshole right back since you seem pretty determined.

1. There is a difference between "A did x therefore i find them to be y" and "A is triggered, must be scum" and if you dont see that then whatever, but dont fucking rag out on me and cunt the thread up with this shit.

2. I think its funny that anyone would try to ascertain my emote during those posts. None of you know me well enough to read me based on me personally, and if you did then you would realize that this is all shtick from me right now.

3. I feel like everyone has missed the few posts where I have tried to pivot on to other things, or where I have tried to indicate that I was joking.

You are all taking me way too seriously and i dont know how to tell you that because youve painted me into a corner by calling my emotions into play here. If i defend myself and deny then im a thing, if i ignore and try to move past because this is the stupidest shit ive heard for a sr in while i get called out for being silent and it gets taken as admission of guilt.

Its literally a catch 22.

4. I get lost in posts sometimes and that was more directed at Ironcat, which is who most of that post was directed at. You just saw your name and went off half cunt and here we are. Most of this could have been avoided if you had simply asked a question about my post and not just flooding the thread with your vitriol.

5. Not to you, this is when i was ranting about Iron. You were just an innocent bystandard in this.

6. Before you assume someone is being an asshole, maybe engage with them in good faith. Why the fuck do i want to talk to you if this is how you react to a miscommunication.

And seriously fuck you for the pretentious pronoun correction, it was a valid question and i could have answered it easily if i knew for sure you were talking about me.

You are probably thinking about when i called you out for shading me a few times for no reason before i even really started playing, but if this is how you play then i can understand your persecution complex. Who did you mistake me for by the way? Someone must have been gettig after you if it wasnt me.

My read list right now from town to scum

[gibus, votato, feathers]

[CopyKat, ironcat]

[brassherald, Freddie]

[Formerfish, lilith2013]

I'm colourblind and I had to look up hex codes for the colours lol

OK, so yellow means null.
Did you think Formerfish and lilith2013 were both scum together, or just one of the two scum? Because it seems pretty wild that you'd suspect them of both being scum with their ongoing conversation (quoted post is technically after your reads but you didn't really react)

[gibus]

OK, so yellow means null.
Did you think Formerfish and lilith2013 were both scum together, or just one of the two scum? Because it seems pretty wild that you'd suspect them of both being scum with their ongoing conversation (quoted post is technically after your reads but you didn't really react)

Why?
They looked scummy together, but FF was scummy on his own. Their conversation and #412 made me feel better about lilith.

[Battle Mage]

V/LA for the weekend

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Votecount 2.3a

Blair (Freddie) (1)

- Dunnstral (Lilith2013),

Nauci (1)

- Battle Mage (Formerfish)

Dunnstral (1)

- Nauci

Gibus (1)

- Blair (Freddie)

Not Voting (4) -

BBmolla (Osuka), Tuxedo Mask, Gibus, Alortom (Votato)

With 8 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-06-02 08:15:00)

For Blair.

[Nauci]

He is a new enough player that he has no completed games yet. Arguments based on, "We all know this would be an unforced error as scum," don't apply very well to new players.

If I'm understanding you correctly (which I may not be, because I'm currently Asiam-girl-drunk trying to cope with getting old), you're saying that the vote change there is a scummy unforced error, but that newbies are prone to doing that kind of thing?

I was trying to ask if you thought that Gibus, as scum, would post the vote acknowledging that the sheep vote appears scummy.

[Aloratom]

So what's the argument for Dunnstral (lilith) being scum?

[Aloratom]

Happy Birthday, Nauci!

[gibus]

Spoiler:

My contribution to the theme

[Nauci]

So what's the argument for Dunnstral (lilith) being scum?

Few things off of the top of my head

-Beetlejuicing on Day 1
-under reacting to Formerfish on Day 1
-mostly IIOA commentary on the fiasco on day 2 instead of specific evolution of her reads on Day 2
-I never trust Dunnstral

I liked her posts on day 1, but they kind of only happened when several people would mention her, so I had her as null then, but I felt like she took the opportunity on day 2 of the drama to mostly rehash stuff instead of give reads, even if they were very helpful posts.

[Nauci]

Formerfish can come across as scummy pretty easily as can battle mage so that's not a bad fit.

Can you tell us a bit more by what you meant by this WRT Battle Mage

[Aloratom]

Formerfish can come across as scummy pretty easily as can battle mage so that's not a bad fit.

Can you tell us a bit more by what you meant by this WRT Battle Mage

I probably misspoke a bit. It's not so much as BM can come across as scummy, but he can come across as stubborn, maybe, or abrasive to an extent, I guess, which can be interpreted as scummy. Abrasive isn't even the right word probably. I've had I think three or four games with him in the last six weeks or so, all Town games for him. I think he's fun to play with, just misunderstood a lot of the time.

[Aloratom]

copykat seems to have done a 180 here

[Aloratom]

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

This seems like a pretty good case on Osuka. I could go BBMolla today. Or maybe Dunnstral/Lillith. I need to look at this Tuxedo/copykat thing a little closer but that seemed to be more early game. I'm not so much for a Blair/Freddie hook today.

[Aloratom]

ugh i kinda hate myself for doing this. sorry, long wallpost. theres a ton of fluffposting and shitposting in the iso, but here are some highlights.

Spoiler:

Hola, also had some mafia history in other places. Have never played a mafia game which lasted this long tho. I don't get the vote for Votato so VOTE:

gibus

this is known as the RVS, or Random Vote Stage, where people vote for silly reasons to get the game started, and then we gradually progress to more serious posting as we get a few bandwagons going.

Fine, VOTE: votato

you shouldn't flipflop like that makes you look flaky

VOTE: imironcat

that's very scummy
VOTE: freddiethelady

osuka's initial post unvoted and said "lemme get caught up." shortly thereafter, without being caught up, he drops another vote. this scumread developed really fast, and hasnt been remotely re-evaluated. in fact, anyone who defends freddie or questions osuka is scum in osuka's mind.

Replacement is a good suspect due to the whole issue of newbies replacing out of scum rolls in their first games.

ouch

this is disgusting

no it isnt. thats statistically true. interesting that FF and osu start shading each other. throughout the game they shade each other, but never vote or want pressure. seems like scum theater. more on this story at 11!

hahahah I was thinking to myself, ironcat reads as town before I realized that's my fucking slot

what a day

hmmm

Here you talk about yourself being killed tonight based off a random read from RVS within the first 10 pages.

Thats a lot of whatfuckingifs to check off to hit on the head. Hence why I mentioned that the idea that you would be the night kill as a puzzler.

Youre the person who thinks everyone is scum at first and we have to prove to you somehow that we arent, right?

Wasn't just talking about self but anyways.
It's easy to kill anyone who's town and I might be one of them. Mafia might either NK those who they might consider having a good lead or those who were accused by another town to set them up.
In this case, I used myself as an example for easy talking.

Not asking anyone to prove me personally that I'm not scum. Just talking about my process of elimination.

Also, you seem to be taking a lot of things personally - hence projecting them onto me.

fucking christ, I'd vote this if I weren't on this slot

wait what happened to that townread? (spoiler, the self-townread comes back later...)

I think ironcat was actively trying to get himself killed

again, i townread myself, but please ignore all the scummy stuff i see coming from my slot

My read list right now from town to scum

[gibus, votato, feathers]

[CopyKat, ironcat]

[brassherald, Freddie]

[Formerfish, lilith2013]

I'm colourblind and I had to look up hex codes for the colours lol

this is a pretty weird tierlist

IIoA

Fish has done and said some very questionable things over the last 3 or 4 pages but I struggle to see some of his posts as coming from scum

more shade, but doesnt press the issue

I maintain that the wave lynch was bad. Good chance it’ll flip town

at no point did you defend wave, and in fact there were a few posts where you called wave out. you said you needed to evaluate the slot and sort it, but never did. this post is as a result really bad. trying to get towncred post-flip when you never defended the slot prior to this.

Lilith could be scum but that’s a quick thought without anything concrete behind it. I’ll have to iso

this never happened either. you keep promising work, but haven't done anything to sort any slots except freddie (and me by association, and now apparently tuxedo for having the audacity not to sheep you).

you were a very solid townread of mine but the way you handled the lynch and what youve said since you hammered is very very offputting

again, FF is scummy, but am i going to pressure the slot? no. im gonna keep calling FF out but then maintain a solid townread.

scumteam is { freddie, 1{ lil, nausi, gibus } }

ive solved the game and youre all welcome

so basically your solve involves everyone except you and FF. and this was pre-flip, yet youre acting like wave already flipped town.

if freddie flips town, however remote that possibility, votato should be powerlynched the following day barring only the literal apocalypse

i can understand poor decision making in light of judgment day

yes, i should be lynched for being right. makes sense. also, for the record, your solve at this point is me and freddie. you think we are scum partners. so if freddie flips scum, you want to lynch me for being scum. but now if freddie flips town you still want to lynch me. thats what tuxedo is saying. and tuxedo is right.

that's a scum slip if ive ever seen one. in fact, I will bet that scum team is { tuxedo, { freddie, votato } } - the second member of which depends on the votato-freddie dynamic i explained earlier

this solve is based on freddie!scum, which is a bad read. then theres me!scum for townreading freddie. and now tuxedo is even more scum for the crime of questioning you.

tl;dr: osuka decided in post four of the iso that freddie was scum. since then theres been no effort to sort anyone else, other than me and now tuxedo for defending freddie, and FF as town for attacking freddie, despite pointing out a lot of scummy posts from FF. interestingly, despite saying theres a lot of scummy posts from FF, osuka never pushes at FF. looks like distancing.

Forget 1847. This is what I meant to quote.

This seems like a pretty good case on Osuka. I could go BBMolla today. Or maybe Dunnstral/Lillith. I need to look at this Tuxedo/copykat thing a little closer but that seemed to be more early game. I'm not so much for a Blair/Freddie hook today.

[Blair]

He is a new enough player that he has no completed games yet. Arguments based on, "We all know this would be an unforced error as scum," don't apply very well to new players.

If I'm understanding you correctly (which I may not be, because I'm currently Asiam-girl-drunk trying to cope with getting old), you're saying that the vote change there is a scummy unforced error, but that newbies are prone to doing that kind of thing?

I was trying to ask if you thought that Gibus, as scum, would post the vote acknowledging that the sheep vote appears scummy.

Yes, the acknowledgement that it looks scummy is exactly the sort of lampshading I expect from newer players, so I don't consider it a point in his favor because the wisdom to "say less" here as scum is something that comes with experience.