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Post Post #225 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:08 pm

Post by Hoopla »

In post 224, notscience wrote:I just don’t get how a newbie pulls traitor spec out of their ass like that tbh
i agree.

agar can cite the scum motivation for such a play all he wants, but the reality is newbies sometimes just do wacky things not in line with site meta or standard patterns of behaviour. you can't read them like normal regs.

just like strange questions to the mod, or role-claiming at weird times, sometimes you just gotta write things off under the banner of
"oh you! silly goose"
and move on.

if he
really
is scum, newbies usually make themselves obvious by day 2 or 3 anyway.
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Post Post #226 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:12 pm

Post by notscience »

We meant different things hoopla- I’m saying I don’t get how he’d pull it out of his ass unless he knew it existed.

Your point about being obvious as the game progresses is valid though.
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Post Post #227 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:34 pm

Post by Hiraki »

In post 195, Gypyx wrote:- well, science says Hoopla has changed her behaviour compared to his memories, I ask him what does he think it means, what is confusing you about that?
why does this matter to you?

the traitor stuff is really dumb and just proves the Gypyx is probably a newbie after all who read the wiki to make himself smarter
In post 209, Hoopla wrote:early days, but hiraki is one who fits the blue-print of classic behaviour i look for on D1; lurky/below-radar, surface level engagement.
it's literally day 2 of the game, what engagement have i been avoiding? my ego is on page 4, sorry i don't shit the thread every 20 minutes???

do you agree with renaissance too that i was A) confused and B) that confusion is scummy? that post was garbage so i am concerned if you actually agree with it or if you're just pulling all of this out of your ass
In post 214, PranaDevil wrote:So that being said, my biggest suspicion currently goes to CooLDoG
bad
In post 214, PranaDevil wrote:At the same time, Una missed half of it entirely (basically skimming the thread and not seeing the blatantly obvious response that a literally half blind person caught), there's talk of a N1 vig via meme stuff, which CooLDoG has taken to mean there is a fake claim and it needs lynching day 2... not day 1.
what does this mean?

town blocs are still stupid and the only person you should trust is yourself
In post 223, AGar wrote:I strongly disagree with this, but I would love to hear why. Because I find it completely devoid of town motivation to speculate about.
agreed but i think we're just going to get a walkback
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Post Post #228 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:41 pm

Post by gobbledygook »

In post 210, notscience wrote:hoopla I wanna invite agar
Why do you want to invite Agar into the townbloc?
In post 223, AGar wrote:I strongly disagree with this, but I would love to hear why. Because I find it completely devoid of town motivation to speculate about.
I think that town are much more likely to openly discuss that sort of thing. If Gypyx were scum, I envision he would be more tactful and inconspicuous with dropping hints to the traitor. If Gypyx is scum, he is either the traitor or on the two person side without the traitor. If he is the traitor, he immediately would point towards teammates who reacted with the knowledge that a traitor did exist. Likewise, if he flip two man scum, we would not know that there is a traitor normally, but now we would be looking for a traitor because why would a flipped scum talk about that unless there was a traitor?

I see both of those scenarios to be less likely than a townie who eagerly spouted an accusation thinking he caught the team red-handed.

Also for those of who you have taken an extended hiatus, please refresh your understanding of what a Normal traitor is. It is much more bollocks than it was. Principle differences being: (1) it cannot be recruited (read: if mafia shoot the traitor, it will die), and (2) if the two man scum group dies the traitor gets automatically endgamed.

signed,
someone who played as a scum traitor and was nightkilled by the main group


@Hiraki
in case you missed this
In post 216, gobbledygook wrote:Hiraki, what is your read on CoolDog?
---

I want Espeonage to address Agar's point.

VOTE: Espeonage
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Post Post #229 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:58 pm

Post by Hoopla »

In post 226, notscience wrote:I’m saying I don’t get how he’d pull it out of his ass unless he knew it existed.
to my eyes, it looks like an overthinking new player, really trying to read into the context of posts; a trait more commonly associated with curious players devoid of alignment knowledge. you can see his train of thought;
In post 190, Gypyx wrote:Sorry I think you don't get my point, what i'm saying is that this post
[65]
really feels like you're a mafia traitor trying to reveal yourself to your team, and i may be overthinking this, but the punctuation is really weird too, like, each dot represting a mafia member and the dot next to a question mark represting the unknown mafia member (traitor therefore) makes a lot of sense to me
In post 65, Emperor flippyNips wrote:are y'all just the scum team.? ..you can tell me if you are
imagine you're a newbie town player eager to make waves and you see post 65 by flippy. you can see how a newbie's mind could generate the idea of that post being a signal to a scumteam.

to me, it's really obvious this observation comes from an overthinking, detail-oriented town mindset.

~~

according the normal guidelines for the traitor role, "
identity is not known by the Mafia team, although they should know a Traitor exists"


if he's scum, he wouldn't be looking for traitor tells
unless
there is a traitor. why look for traitor tells if you're gyp-scum in a team of, say, 3 goons? but!
if
there is a traitor, why out the traitor-tell you picked up in such an obvious way as he detailed in post 190?

relatedly, i've been collecting data on mini normals again. i've been primarily looking at D1 lurking/wagon patterns, so i wasn't checking for traitors specifically, but i only recall seeing one or two mafia traitors in the last 50 games. they are rare.
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Post Post #230 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:07 pm

Post by AGar »

In post 228, gobbledygook wrote:
In post 223, AGar wrote:I strongly disagree with this, but I would love to hear why. Because I find it completely devoid of town motivation to speculate about.
I think that town are much more likely to openly discuss that sort of thing. If Gypyx were scum, I envision he would be more tactful and inconspicuous with dropping hints to the traitor. If Gypyx is scum, he is either the traitor or on the two person side without the traitor. If he is the traitor, he immediately would point towards teammates who reacted with the knowledge that a traitor did exist. Likewise, if he flip two man scum, we would not know that there is a traitor normally, but now we would be looking for a traitor because why would a flipped scum talk about that unless there was a traitor?

I see both of those scenarios to be less likely than a townie who eagerly spouted an accusation thinking he caught the team red-handed.

Also for those of who you have taken an extended hiatus, please refresh your understanding of what a Normal traitor is. It is much more bollocks than it was. Principle differences being: (1) it cannot be recruited (read: if mafia shoot the traitor, it will die), and (2) if the two man scum group dies the traitor gets automatically endgamed.

signed,
someone who played as a scum traitor and was nightkilled by the main group
I'm very aware of what a Normal traitor is.

So let me break this down:

Based on Newbie 1993 and Newbie 2001 (both completed), Gypyx is new to MS, but not new to mafia. He displayed some solid grasp in both games as to what he was doing. Even in this game, he's spoken with a fairly confident opinion on meta. A wrong one (meta's trash yo), but a confident one. So knowledge of a traitor isn't a stretch to say it's out there.

People who come in from other sites with experience usually are able to, for lack of a better turn of phrase, dumb it up on some things. I know I sure as fuck did in my first game and I ended up winning with a pretty ballsy gambit.

So, a normal traitor is going to try and avoid taking the bullet while also trying to avoid getting lynched, right? Mid-profile shit. Juuuust scummy enough to not be a NK target because you're still a plausible option to be lynched but also juuuust doing enough to skate by because there's scummier fucks that need to die. I speak from old, but actual, experience of this.

Gypyx's game so far has done 3 things:

- In claiming he is a new player (full stop, per his post), he gives himself outs on certain faux pas. (less likely to be lynched)
- In throwing a random traitor accusation out there, he does draw some suspicion to himself, avoiding NK bait.
- In being the first person to mention a traitor, unprompted, he does the best job one possibly could to try and convey they're the traitor to the remaining mafiosos.
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Post Post #231 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:12 pm

Post by notscience »

The things agar is saying are mirroring a lot of the thoughts I’m having and typically when that happens it means they are coming from similar motivations, aka town.

Same with hoopla I really doubt he’s catering his play to me so that just further makes me think that- he was one of the first ones to view the traitor talk the same as well as espe’s early play, and he’s actually following up on his questions when they get ignored when it’s easy for scum to just keep up with the pace of the game- which imo shows he actually cares about the answers and divining something from them.

Pedit

And look at that beautiful post

How are people not considering him town?
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Post Post #232 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:13 pm

Post by Hoopla »

In post 227, Hiraki wrote:it's literally day 2 of the game, what engagement have i been avoiding? my ego is on page 4, sorry i don't shit the thread every 20 minutes???

do you agree with renaissance too that i was A) confused and B) that confusion is scummy? that post was garbage so i am concerned if you actually agree with it or if you're just pulling all of this out of your ass
i didn't see your post 78 as confusion, per se.

i saw it more as a smattering of irrelevant one-liners that didn't really invite much thoughtful dialogue. that's what i meant by surface-level.

it's true, we're only two days in. you have a lot of time to turn things around and impress me.
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Post Post #233 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:13 pm

Post by CooLDoG »

In post 183, gobbledygook wrote:
Cooldog, do you think my current level and style of play is lurky?
not particularly no. I wouldn't attack you for being a lurker.
In post 185, renaissance wrote:Eh, I'm out of time actually. I liked notscience's recent interactions with me a little.

VOTE: gobbled

I'm just gonna park here with some townreads for now.

Pedit: I'll be back later!
Let me town hunt so that the scum knows the strongest town reads are to kill during the night so town has less info to go off of... Also, let me just put a vote here with little to no explanation.

I was expecting a different vote given,
In post 187, renaissance wrote:Oh wait, this is better.

VOTE: CoolDog
I don't understand your vote hopping.
In post 194, AGar wrote:
In post 190, Gypyx wrote:
In post 163, Emperor flippyNips wrote:
In post 161, Gypyx wrote:
In post 65, Emperor flippyNips wrote:are y'all just the scum team.? ..you can tell me if you are
well then, this post looks really weird to me, might be another one of Flippy's joke posts, but it really stands out in his ISO

It’s not my fault them buddying up on page 2 or 3 looked bad to me

Sorry I think you don't get my point, what i'm saying is that this post really feels like you're a mafia traitor trying to reveal yourself to your team, and i may be overthinking this, but the punctuation is really weird too, like, each dot represting a mafia member and the dot next to a question mark represting the unknown mafia member (traitor therefore) makes a lot of sense to me

(I hope this answers the questions other guys had about that)
Hoo fuckin boi I don’t like this.
Agree, its a load of non-sense. Does this ping you as scummy or just wrong? nvm. You answer this in
In post 198, notscience wrote:I will say even worrying about a traitor is very weird and I kinda wanna go there

Hoopla what do you think of taking this wagon off the rails?
Yeah, it is pretty strange. The guy is new though, so he might believe that traitors are standard roles... still, you are correct. From town perspective it shouldn't matter that much.

@prana's . I've said all I have to say on lynching the fake claim. Don't think I can convince you otherwise.

Hoopla's post is part of the reason I am voteing her. Over confident town reads d1. Not doing much scum hunting. Also doesn't do much actual analysis of hikari or reasons for vote in next post. Just does a quick slip in there.
In post 224, notscience wrote:I just don’t get how a newbie pulls traitor spec out of their ass like that tbh
Yeah, also this. Also this early in the game it is sorta strange.
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Post Post #234 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:32 pm

Post by Hoopla »

In post 233, CooLDoG wrote:
In post 185, renaissance wrote: I'm just gonna park here with some townreads for now.
Let me town hunt so that the scum knows the strongest town reads are to kill during the night so town has less info to go off of... Also, let me just put a vote here with little to no explanation.
In post 233, CooLDoG wrote:Hoopla's post is part of the reason I am voteing her. Over confident town reads d1. Not doing much scum hunting. Also doesn't do much actual analysis of hikari or reasons for vote in next post. Just does a quick slip in there.
~~

it appears you have some hang-ups about the concept of townhunting as a strategy. could this playstyle difference be the explanation for your suspicion of me and renaissance? food for thought.
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Post Post #235 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:13 pm

Post by Hiraki »

In post 228, gobbledygook wrote:@Hiraki in case you missed this
sorry i did, i really liked his thought process in that one long post. too early to say super duper town but i dont think ill be voting him today. i do not understand the votes on him.
In post 230, AGar wrote:Based on Newbie 1993 and Newbie 2001 (both completed), Gypyx is new to MS, but not new to mafia. He displayed some solid grasp in both games as to what he was doing. Even in this game, he's spoken with a fairly confident opinion on meta. A wrong one (meta's trash yo), but a confident one. So knowledge of a traitor isn't a stretch to say it's out there.
this is fair, thanks for bringing this up. will need to read.
In post 234, Hoopla wrote:
In post 233, CooLDoG wrote:
In post 185, renaissance wrote: I'm just gonna park here with some townreads for now.
Let me town hunt so that the scum knows the strongest town reads are to kill during the night so town has less info to go off of... Also, let me just put a vote here with little to no explanation.
In post 233, CooLDoG wrote:Hoopla's post is part of the reason I am voteing her. Over confident town reads d1. Not doing much scum hunting. Also doesn't do much actual analysis of hikari or reasons for vote in next post. Just does a quick slip in there.
~~

it appears you have some hang-ups about the concept of townhunting as a strategy. could this playstyle difference be the explanation for your suspicion of me and renaissance? food for thought.
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Post Post #236 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:21 pm

Post by gobbledygook »

In post 235, Hiraki wrote:too early to say super duper town but i dont think ill be voting him today. i do not understand the votes on him
Which long post?
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Post Post #237 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:33 pm

Post by Hiraki »

i was referring to his first post with that but i TR most of his posts TBH - nothing specific but no specific pings either
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Post Post #238 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:04 pm

Post by notscience »

i Kinda agree with hiraki that it’s a weird post because it’s making assumptions about Renaissance’s play style which I don’t think are merited to try and discredit a read on him.

Like no doubt there are playstyle crashes in this game and multiple people with set in stone ways they want to play, and there will have to be some compromise (for lack of a better term) wrt play styles.

Like I agree with what she’s saying but not how she’s saying it.
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Post Post #239 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:05 pm

Post by notscience »

unvote


For now
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Post Post #240 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:38 pm

Post by notscience »

Agar town for the similarities in train of thought like I’ve mentioned before

Hoopla still leads town but that weird post hiraki mentioned still irks me a bit

I liked Renaissance’s entrance into the game but still want those reads explained

I’m tempted to townread hiraki but can’t really place what it is that makes me think that way?

I liked my interactions with una so far so leantown there

I still want an explanation from Espeonage about the damn night prep because he’s been ignoring that question multiple times which is sketchy as shit

LicketyQuickety is still in this game and I don’t think he’s even posted

Turkey I’ve resolved to give him a few more days and see what he does with the space he asked for earlier

I want to iso warmcat because I frankly struggle to remember what he’s done

I didn’t feel either way re prana

Nippy flips I don’t think has done anything either but I’m pretty sure someone said that’s par for the course for him

Gyp I still don’t have good feelings about the traitor thing for the reasons in my iso
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Post Post #241 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:42 pm

Post by notscience »

vote gyp
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Post Post #242 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:00 pm

Post by Hiraki »

In post 238, notscience wrote:i Kinda agree with hiraki that it’s a weird post because it’s making assumptions about Renaissance’s play style which I don’t think are merited to try and discredit a read on him.

Like no doubt there are playstyle crashes in this game and multiple people with set in stone ways they want to play, and there will have to be some compromise (for lack of a better term) wrt play styles.

Like I agree with what she’s saying but not how she’s saying it.
it's also weird in context - might be some self-bias here but i got that weird knock off for the "under the radar" comment but CooLDoG is basically doing the same sort of deal - if there's a difference from when that post was made, please let me know because me and CooLDoG were structuring our posts in completely similar ways. this is hoopla's first mention of CooLDoG and it's a...deflection-y sort of post? not really feeling great about it

even moreso at the same time, i dont see the reason to talk about it either. there's no scumread implication, just shade being thrown that is easily ignorable by saying "hey we have a playstyle difference get over it" rather than "hey, you're wrong because there's a playstyle difference" - the difference between those two interpretations is that the first doesn't care about the read implications and is just explaining the situation. the second implies that there is a read being cast there based off of that stuff. meanwhile, if we look at CooLDoG's post -
In post 233, CooLDoG wrote:Hoopla's post 217 is part of the reason I am voteing her. Over confident town reads d1. Not doing much scum hunting. Also doesn't do much actual analysis of hikari or reasons for vote in next post. Just does a quick slip in there.
CooLDoG is clearly voting Hoopla (and by extension not reading renaissance very well) due to a lack of explanation not, as Hoopla's post almost sideswipes it to be, due to the difference in playstyle. you would think that the appropriate response would be what Hoopla said and then something about her reads but this just seems like a real abstract way of deflecting CooLDoG's read without addressing all of his concerns

it just reeks of very
weird
and even weirder everytime i think about it

Unvote, Vote: Hoopla


not sure about notscience but i do not think i want to lynch there anymore after the last few pages

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Post Post #243 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:15 pm

Post by gobbledygook »

I am coming away from this game with very different reads I think. That is troublesome.
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Post Post #244 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:18 pm

Post by Hoopla »

to hiraki and any other concerned readers:

you must understand, cooldog is a very sensitive soul. i can feel the fragility with every post i read. that deep seated fear of opening up and seeing things another way.

my appeal to cooldog was a modest inquiry. a quiet call to reason. a call to his higher self that's able to see the bigger picture.

do i think he is town? unsure. this was merely my way of extending my hand to him, tenderly, on the possibility that he is.

of course, if he's a scumbo, he may do as he pleases.
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Post Post #245 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:21 pm

Post by Hoopla »

i have to say, this has been a satisfactory hustle from hiraki, despite his conclusions. i'm ready to move onto greener pastures.

VOTE: prana
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Post Post #246 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:22 pm

Post by Hoopla »

In post 0, MarcellaHeard wrote:Such a cute pets!
hello...
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Post Post #247 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:28 pm

Post by UnaBombaH »

In post 224, notscience wrote:I just don’t get how a newbie pulls traitor spec out of their ass like that tbh
Exactly.
My questions might seem like a silly repeat on the surface level, but there was more to it than that.
The real questions is still "WHY".
I get it, their answer was sufficient enough for why they became suspicious and all, but WHY did they just drop that questions in the thread as it was? :]
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Post Post #248 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:31 pm

Post by UnaBombaH »

In post 227, Hiraki wrote:the traitor stuff is really dumb and just proves the Gypyx is probably a newbie after all who read the wiki to make himself smarter
Exactly the opposite IMO! :]

Had he read about traitors, he wouldn't just ask "how common they are". He would know the roles normal guidelines and that's all that matters.
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Post Post #249 (ISO) » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:40 pm

Post by Gypyx »

Ok, question, I see that no one has actually made any coments on the content of my read, apart from Flippy saying "yo that would be a sick traitor strat" so could anyone think about the read on it's own?
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