Mini Theme 2145: The Weakest Link Game over

[Starbuck]

Reading back in our Quiz PT in regards to who said pass or fail....

spring in their first post said "I PM'd" not "I PM'd my pass"

I confirmed that I PM'd my pass

Dunn confirmed that he pm'd his pass

farside confirmed her pass

Raya confirmed her pass


Spring was the only one that didn't say that they PM'd their "pass". If Raya, Dunn, and farside would like to verify. It's all on the first page.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Someone doesn't want to discuss anything other them them being safe or getting the chain.......i think it starts with a player named albert....last name scum

youre tunneling on town

[Raya36]

With the above in mind why don't we make the quiz the exact same 5 people? Then if the quiz passes we know everyone on it is town. If it fails again then we know it's extremely unlikely that the problem was scum tampering and we actually do have scum in the quiz. Making a whole new quiz team likely lands scum in the quiz anyway. I think this is the best strategy from a solving standpoint

I want to run the group back for what I've been preaching but no one in this game wants to listen to me about how scum need to be able to tamper with the groups for the game to be balanced

I believe you now. Took some consideration because I thought that would be overpowered but you're right that it would be extremely town sided without that.

So you're in agreement about making the quiz group the same but without spring?

Truly doesn't matter who is excluded. I just want to run it back to some degree.
I am even fine excluding 2 people and including unwnd. Isn't a big deal to me.

Yeah I'm ok with that as well. But I think the best plan is to either have all members from the old group or all members + Unwnd. I'd prefer the first though since we'd end up with more conf town if it passes

[beeboy]

If the quiz passes we have 4 basically conftown players. Plus Beeboy who is basically conftown. And unwnd who is such a strong general town read he might as well be conftown too.

If the quiz fails we know scum is within the pool of 4 quiz members. Is only 1 then it's a 25% chance of catching scum.

^^^^^^

[Raya36]

imagine thinking that the quiz team consisted of the top 4 townreads...

Top 4 town reads from the quiz*

[midwaybear]

I mean scum might not want to pass the quiz if the reward is bad. We can soft conf town if the reward is good like a joat.
pedit: @starbuck interesting

[springlullaby]

If the quiz passes we have 4 basically conftown players. Plus Beeboy who is basically conftown. And unwnd who is such a strong general town read he might as well be conftown too.

If the quiz fails we know scum is within the pool of 4 quiz members. Is only 1 then it's a 25% chance of catching scum.

Wrong, if the quiz pass, you have 1 confirmed town player within the quiz team: the one who receive the advantage.
Because it is more than plausible that scum has a tampering power, as you have stated yourself.

Why are you reasoning so wrong?

[springlullaby]

Reading back in our Quiz PT in regards to who said pass or fail....

spring in their first post said "I PM'd" not "I PM'd my pass"

I confirmed that I PM'd my pass

Dunn confirmed that he pm'd his pass

farside confirmed her pass

Raya confirmed her pass


Spring was the only one that didn't say that they PM'd their "pass". If Raya, Dunn, and farside would like to verify. It's all on the first page.

... I'm town, I don't have to confirm that I confirmed my pass. I can only pass. Hence I confirmed my pm.

What you are saying here is that I as scum said out loud in the qt thread that I failed the quiz?

[Raya36]

Reading back in our Quiz PT in regards to who said pass or fail....

spring in their first post said "I PM'd" not "I PM'd my pass"

I confirmed that I PM'd my pass

Dunn confirmed that he pm'd his pass

farside confirmed her pass

Raya confirmed her pass


Spring was the only one that didn't say that they PM'd their "pass". If Raya, Dunn, and farside would like to verify. It's all on the first page.

I can confirm this but to me this makes me lean towards spring being town. Scum would be careful to say they PMed to pass. Scum has no reason to not say that. It's not like they arent allowed to lie about it lol

[beeboy]

I mean scum might not want to pass the quiz if the reward is bad. We can soft conf town if the reward is good like a joat.
pedit: @starbuck interesting

If 1 or even 2 scum want to keep giving us conf towns, I don't particularly care.
Eventually the random power roles are going to land on our suspects and we still win.

Conf towns are largely created through the distribution of the random PRs.

[midwaybear]

is the advantage always going to be a PR?

[Starbuck]

I have played games (mostly when the View Askew Board was active) where there are lie detectors. When I have to submit an action in secret, I make sure that I write my confirmation how I'd expect a lie detector to grab it and use their power to verify it.

You didn't do that.

All 4 of us explicitly said that we "PM'd our pass." Why wouldn't you say that you passed it?

[Raya36]

If the quiz passes we have 4 basically conftown players. Plus Beeboy who is basically conftown. And unwnd who is such a strong general town read he might as well be conftown too.

If the quiz fails we know scum is within the pool of 4 quiz members. Is only 1 then it's a 25% chance of catching scum.

Wrong, if the quiz pass, you have 1 confirmed town player within the quiz team: the one who receive the advantage.
Because it is more than plausible that scum has a tampering power, as you have stated yourself.

Why are you reasoning so wrong?

It's likely scum has a

1-shot

tampering power. Any more than that would make no sense. So therefore if the quiz passes everyone on the team is town.

[beeboy]

I am with Raya, scum has a 1-shot Tamper.
Otherwise town is capable of chaining successful groups back to back.
If scum has too many tampers a failed group never gives us info and we likely never get a passing group since combined with my PR getting a large group of just town is very difficult.

[Raya36]

I am with Raya, scum has a 1-shot Tamper.
Otherwise town is capable of chaining successful groups back to back.
If scum has too many tampers a failed group never gives us info and we likely never get a passing group since combined with my PR getting a large group of just town is very difficult.

This.

[Raya36]

(Repeating myself just to have it all in one post)

So up to Unwnd but if he's up for the plan I think the optimal play is to make the next quiz team this:

Raya
Dunn
Starbuck
Farside

Since it's very likely scum has a 1-shot tamper then we can use that team to confirm players as town or have a small pool to select scum from within.

If the quiz passes we have 4 basically conftown players. Plus Beeboy who is basically conftown. And unwnd who is such a strong general town read he might as well be conftown too. (This is why I left Unwnd out of the quiz. We already have him as town. We don't need to confirm him)

If the quiz fails we know scum is within the pool of 4 quiz members. If there is only 1 scum then it's a 25% chance of catching scum.

[midwaybear]

If the quiz passes we have 4 basically conftown players

you can't say this...

[farside22]

With the above in mind why don't we make the quiz the exact same 5 people? Then if the quiz passes we know everyone on it is town. If it fails again then we know it's extremely unlikely that the problem was scum tampering and we actually do have scum in the quiz. Making a whole new quiz team likely lands scum in the quiz anyway. I think this is the best strategy from a solving standpoint

With the above in mind why don't we make the quiz the exact same 5 people? Then if the quiz passes we know everyone on it is town. If it fails again then we know it's extremely unlikely that the problem was scum tampering and we actually do have scum in the quiz. Making a whole new quiz team likely lands scum in the quiz anyway. I think this is the best strategy from a solving standpoint

Technically, we can't. Unwnd already said it's 4 people.

I don't want to see spring back on a quiz, especially with that vote for beeboy and whole thing surrounding that if beeboy died, then spring would get it back.

Ok then to compromise on the plan why don't we make it me, you, Dunn, farside? Then we'll know for sure if one of us is scum. Because I doubt the quiz will be tampered with twice. It would have to be a 1 shot to be fair

With the above in mind why don't we make the quiz the exact same 5 people? Then if the quiz passes we know everyone on it is town. If it fails again then we know it's extremely unlikely that the problem was scum tampering and we actually do have scum in the quiz. Making a whole new quiz team likely lands scum in the quiz anyway. I think this is the best strategy from a solving standpoint

I want to run the group back for what I've been preaching but no one in this game wants to listen to me about how scum need to be able to tamper with the groups for the game to be balanced

Okay so this is a lot of WIFOM. We could keep discussing this but we are going to keep circling around and around and around. Until we lynch scum we don't know what abilities are had. I get BB's logic, as soon as he said it I could see a mod wanting to make sure there was something to balance constant town in the quiz and add some distention in the group.
This goes back to a simple thing.
Do you scum read any players in the quiz?

argh, I can see both sides here.
I feel like scum gambited, but then again unwnd was an obvious nk choice...

Spring didn't think so.

imagine thinking that the quiz team consisted of the top 4 townreads...

This wouldn't be a bad idea.

[springlullaby]

I am with Raya, scum has a 1-shot Tamper.
Otherwise town is capable of chaining successful groups back to back.
If scum has too many tampers a failed group never gives us info and we likely never get a passing group since combined with my PR getting a large group of just town is very difficult.

I agree with the premises, which I was the first to point out in this thread.
But her reasoning is wrong.


1. Assuming 1-shot tampering power from scum:
- If used on N1, it means all QT members are town.
- Stating that N2 members are all town from that premise is therefore redundant.

2. Assuming 1-shot tampering power from scum:
- If not used on N1, it means that there is at least one members on N1 QT is scum.
- It therefore means that 1-shot from scum is still available to use on N2, to fake-confirm a QT members pool.
- Therefore the only rigourous conclusion that can be drawn from a pass on N2, is that one player, the one that receive the advantage, is town.

3. It also has to be considered that we don't know what is the advantage scum received from last night's fail
- Which means that it is still possible that scum used tampering on N1
- And received a renewed tampering power, to be used at any point in game.

Conclusion: anytime a quiz team pass, the only rigorous conclusion that can be drawn is that the person who received the advantage is town.

Make an effort to think before you post, because the whole lot of bad logic is not helping. I can foresee scum screwing you so bad over this. Don't.

[Raya36]

If the quiz passes we have 4 basically conftown players

you can't say this...

Unless scum chose to let us pass which I find unlikely.


Can scum choose to pass the quiz or is it the same as us where we automatically pass: they automatically fail?

[beeboy]

3. It also has to be considered that we don't know what is the advantage scum received from last night's fail
- Which means that it is still possible that scum used tampering on N1
- And received a renewed tampering power, to be used at any point in game.

Scum can N1 tamper to recieve a N2 tamper?
I had this thought in my head but I disagree with this being a reasonable outcome.

We run the group back, if it fails, the group has scum in it.

[beeboy]

Okay so this is a lot of WIFOM. We could keep discussing this but we are going to keep circling around and around and around. Until we lynch scum we don't know what abilities are had. I get BB's logic, as soon as he said it I could see a mod wanting to make sure there was something to balance constant town in the quiz and add some distention in the group.
This goes back to a simple thing.
Do you scum read any players in the quiz?

Without an ABR town flip I am going to say no, I don't have a good reason to scum read anyone in the group so I don't care if we run the group back.
On ABR scum flip its Starback -> You. As the scum in the group.

[Raya36]

With the above in mind why don't we make the quiz the exact same 5 people? Then if the quiz passes we know everyone on it is town. If it fails again then we know it's extremely unlikely that the problem was scum tampering and we actually do have scum in the quiz. Making a whole new quiz team likely lands scum in the quiz anyway. I think this is the best strategy from a solving standpoint

With the above in mind why don't we make the quiz the exact same 5 people? Then if the quiz passes we know everyone on it is town. If it fails again then we know it's extremely unlikely that the problem was scum tampering and we actually do have scum in the quiz. Making a whole new quiz team likely lands scum in the quiz anyway. I think this is the best strategy from a solving standpoint

Technically, we can't. Unwnd already said it's 4 people.

I don't want to see spring back on a quiz, especially with that vote for beeboy and whole thing surrounding that if beeboy died, then spring would get it back.

Ok then to compromise on the plan why don't we make it me, you, Dunn, farside? Then we'll know for sure if one of us is scum. Because I doubt the quiz will be tampered with twice. It would have to be a 1 shot to be fair

With the above in mind why don't we make the quiz the exact same 5 people? Then if the quiz passes we know everyone on it is town. If it fails again then we know it's extremely unlikely that the problem was scum tampering and we actually do have scum in the quiz. Making a whole new quiz team likely lands scum in the quiz anyway. I think this is the best strategy from a solving standpoint

I want to run the group back for what I've been preaching but no one in this game wants to listen to me about how scum need to be able to tamper with the groups for the game to be balanced

Okay so this is a lot of WIFOM. We could keep discussing this but we are going to keep circling around and around and around. Until we lynch scum we don't know what abilities are had. I get BB's logic, as soon as he said it I could see a mod wanting to make sure there was something to balance constant town in the quiz and add some distention in the group.
This goes back to a simple thing.
Do you scum read any players in the quiz?

I can't think of anything else that would balance that. This makes a lot of sense to me and also explains why there was no kill. If scum was on the team they would have known Unwnd was going to be BP.

[beeboy]

Okay so this is a lot of WIFOM. We could keep discussing this but we are going to keep circling around and around and around. Until we lynch scum we don't know what abilities are had. I get BB's logic, as soon as he said it I could see a mod wanting to make sure there was something to balance constant town in the quiz and add some distention in the group.
This goes back to a simple thing.
Do you scum read any players in the quiz?

Without an ABR town flip I am going to say no, I don't have a good reason to scum read anyone in the group so I don't care if we run the group back.
On ABR scum flip its Starback -> You. As the scum in the group.

I meant on ABR town flip.

[springlullaby]

3. It also has to be considered that we don't know what is the advantage scum received from last night's fail
- Which means that it is still possible that scum used tampering on N1
- And received a renewed tampering power, to be used at any point in game.

Scum can N1 tamper to recieve a N2 tamper?
I had this thought in my head but I disagree with this being a reasonable outcome.

We run the group back, if it fails, the group has scum in it.

It is speculative, but it as to be kept in the realm of possible beyond further evidence.

> Do you disagree with the conclusion in my previous post?