ame does not impress me in the slightest but i feel the consensus is we dont lynch the claimed tracker, if im wrong on that and people are down ill happily switch back
I am the fly, I am the fly, I am the fly, I am the fly, fly in the, fly in the ointment
This is the partner tell that I'm referring to. Basically HEM is overly conscious about the way he interacts with his partner so he tends to overcompensate. For example, in Blitz II he constantly spoke to his partner (shiki) in a similar way. I'll bring up posts to try to make the point clearer.
No. Bugs did not lurk that game. They were town that game.
Bugs did not lurk in the town games that I have played with them. However, I have only played with them when they were town.
Station 13, is now taking pre-ins! Coming June 2020
In post 151, popopopopopopo wrote:trust me, im good at catching scum early. its my best quality as a mafia player
proveeeet
It's hard to put into words other than he's awkward with his partners and overcompensates from his knowledge of who they are by interacting with them emphatically. I tried to explain this in Blitz II also:
In post 667, Madoka wrote:Additionally, both the way you've called out shiki's name here and the way you spoke of bugs felt unnatural to me, as if you were trying to keep them in a good light.
so tracking a hider does what? potentially confirms one townie? gobble has already called his target unless he decided to do something else and i missed it.
I am the fly, I am the fly, I am the fly, I am the fly, fly in the, fly in the ointment
OK I haven’t done this kind of post in a long while. I’m doing it here because I think it’s the best way to help town win and I can totally understand why I’m lynchbait so far today and I want to at least make up for that.
First up, here is a fun (often useless but sometimes exactly right) FIRST-POST-SCUM-O-METER. These are based on my first instinct gut reaction to the entry of each player. Ame isn’t on this.
Spoiler:
Game Entrance Alignmentometer
TOWN
gobbledygook
popopopopopopo
inutile
HoldenGolden
Exemplar
bugspray
humaneatingmonkey
SCUM
PBPA
Next up, an annoyingly long post-by-post commentary. Some of it is just more gut reaction – not based on logic. Basically this is just what I think in my head after posts that stood out to me. Some of them are related to each other, while many are isolated. I’ll write up an analysis of the main points after this.
In post 20, Porkens wrote:I’m not even going to fake an TVs vote right now
what do you mean by 'fake an [rvs] vote'?
This feels town to me.
In post 29, humaneatingmonkey wrote:inutile is datisi probably?
im not surprised if some of the players here are actually mains of the alts that we played with.
HG, I'm town again. But you'll discover that soon enough.
In post 40, HoldenGolden wrote:Town again like the last three games we've played where you been scum?
must be another slip. you should scumread me.
This interaction screams hidden messages to me. Is this a traitor reaching out to the scumteam? Is that possible in a game this size/flavor? I have no idea, but that’s what this feels like. There is some real subtext here. /tinfoilhat
In post 20, Porkens wrote:I’m not even going to fake an TVs vote right now
what do you mean by 'fake an [rvs] vote'?
What do you mean what do I mean? I don’t feel like faking an TVs vote.
Why would fake an TVs vote? Do you always fake an TVs vote?
———
I think inutile is probably town.
In post 55, gobbledygook wrote:The amount of paranoia flowing from inutile’s body makes the air thick. I don’t think HG was doing that unless you said you were doing that in the last game? I think that’s a really high level type of play to make as scum and most people wouldn’t think to do it unless it was revealed to them at some point in the past.
Did you talk about this type of tactic during the last game, inutile? Otherwise, I think you’re seeing shadows.
These feel town to me.
In post 57, HoldenGolden wrote:Oopies sorry I was eating inutile. Can you post again so my assoication-town-intor can keep running?
Jokes aside, I don't think your supposed scum motivation for me to do so makes much sense. You would have to imply that I went into this game and made a concious effort to pull that type of play off given how quickly supposed scum!me did it.
Also you are not Shiki. I doubt Shiki would refer to herself in third person at the very end of that post towards me if she would claim who she is.
PEDIT: Monkey don't buy the alt claim. Something is wrong I can feel it.
More of that collusion vibe here.
In post 59, Exemplar wrote:Why is everyone flooding the thread with posts? Scum trying to make it harder for me to catch up?
In post 31, Porkens wrote:Oh I’m going to role play too. I am Gerald of tibia, who is a contract for me?
A real TVs vote is when you pretend to randomly vote for someone to blend in with the herd.
A fake TVs vote is when you pretend to randomly vote for someone strategically to encourage future conditions.
Generally you care more about the second but pretend to care more about the first.
Huah?
And instead of casting a TVs vote, you decided to talk about NAI theory. Safe play, scum.
This feels scummy to me. Post 59 especially feels like posturing and also overtly distancing the self from scum. The other two are kicking up dust, which is ironically NAI :p
In post 99, HoldenGolden wrote:Crusaders cannot fish expect with holy metal hooks. I decree so
FOS: EXEMPLAR
Already voting: HEM
In post 105, humaneatingmonkey wrote:okay so are you 100% sure that I'm scum and there's no need to sort me otherwise? because you haven't been trying to sort me while indicating here that you've been seriously voting me all this time.
Jesus, can it be this simple? Holden/Monkey/Exemplar? This three-way interaction seems so unnatural to me. I may be paranoid from the earlier conspiracy theorizing but the three-way catch here is hard to get over. It also includes some distancing.
In post 121, bugspray wrote:VOTE: holdengolden
idk man u seeem pretty weird this game
and i never said i know who inutile is
Completely separately from what I’m thinking of Holden above, THIS post feels scummy to me.
In post 127, Exemplar wrote:Your setup in the precious page is perfect if you're both scum. Spend a few pages bickering about it without incriminating each other and distance in the process.
of course. there are those who are fans and those who are unfamiliar with her.
In post 9, inutile wrote:and then we know and are repelled at knowing that if the dead by any chance returned we should not know them, that the cherished few with whom god chose to part us miss us not, that it is better so, that it is all, perversely, for the best.
this is the closing lines of my favorite poem of hers.
This post feels out of place. I know these two had a moment earlier. Dunno. DUNNO. Could be nothing.
In post 31, Porkens wrote:Oh I’m going to role play too. I am Gerald of tibia, who is a contract for me?
A real TVs vote is when you pretend to randomly vote for someone to blend in with the herd.
A fake TVs vote is when you pretend to randomly vote for someone strategically to encourage future conditions.
Generally you care more about the second but pretend to care more about the first.
Huah?
And instead of casting a TVs vote, you decided to talk about NAI theory. Safe play, scum.
In post 32, humaneatingmonkey wrote:i already miss hiraki, shiki, and madoka... whose playstyles i've been endeared to.
what do you make of the coincidence i pointed out with regards to holdengolden's posting pattern?
You're very interested in prodding people on a NAI issue. Filling the thread with distractions?
attacking people for pointing out behaviour that he deems to be NAI, there is no active scumhunting here, rather he is DISCOURAGING scumhunting from taking place
In post 69, Exemplar wrote:Are you trying to make us all uneasy, monkey? Setting a demoralising tone?
this is criticism for tone, he doesn't say its scummy, just that monkey is "demoralising". this is shade, and not from a town perspective
this is an interesting interaction, what i think is that he trained on me as a possible easy mark, notice how he doesnt vote me until after monkey does in the next post
In post 151, popopopopopopo wrote:trust me, im good at catching scum early. its my best quality as a mafia player
Yikes.
more defensiveness here, but this is more dismissive, designed to belittle me and prevent town members from taking me seriously. disingenuous reaction at best.
In post 159, Exemplar wrote:So po×6+1, should I assume your "best skill" at mafia is actually pretty bad, or that you're scum?
rounding it off with a joke/insult post, as if to say he doesn't sweat my accusations, when he clearly does.
yea im happy with my vote
I’m generally liking popopopopopopo as town so far, and this analysis of exemplar is pretty good. Not locktown, but turning bluish.
In post 182, Exemplar wrote:You're scumreading playstyle. Get your head out of your tunnel.
In post 168, humaneatingmonkey wrote:i am scumreading you based on the things you've posted, and I'm still finding the reasons why. meanwhile this wagon should get strated.
In post 170, Exemplar wrote:Holden, are you always this apologetic/understanding? You see no scum intention behind what monkey is doing here?
No I do. I also saw town intention as well.
My thought was this was an reaction test for both me and people like inutile who expressed I was scummy, which I could see town motivation for doing so. It would let him get a better read on me while also testing those scum leans into me. It bothered me how quickly it happened, but I could of bought it (since I know he is trying more reaction test in his playstyle).
The fact this seems based on "townies are always paranoid" and is an actual read is bullshit however.
Anyways this is what I wanted to spurt out incase of an lolhammer.
I have some smaller pings such as the popo minivs. examplar posts and porkins, but I need sleep first.
In post 195, Exemplar wrote:I thought his case was genuine enough, but if he's not seeing his fault and actually declaring me caught scum in page 8 after my response, he might just be scum.
oh then why vote Porkens and now build a wagon on popo?
In post 202, popopopopopopo wrote:voting porkens and then immediately back to me, flailing already u hate to see it
This sequence looks very bad for Exemplar. Sheeping Holden then Monkey. popopopopopopo is spot on here.
In post 207, Exemplar wrote:This isn't natural. This is picking a target and then painting everything they do as scummy. That "case" is trash and if you continue to call it valid after I've told you half the stuff were jokes, or not addressing how asking someone why they scumread me is "over defensive", you're scum.
In post 219, inutile wrote:he is at L-2. my vote would put him to L-1, at which point it would not be unreasonable for him to claim and it is also possible he would be lynched. i am 'soft' on my scumread to the extent that my putting additional pressure on him in the form of my vote seems more a net negative than a net positive at this point in the game. why is my vote necessary? what purpose does it serve for you?
okay. this makes sense. although claims only happen at intent to hammer, not at L-1 automatically. I've seen countless of L-1s where a claim wasn't necessary because it's understood that a hammer is bad for both town and scum. But whatever. i haven't been paying attention in the VCs. i want a wagon to form and your vote is necessary. it serves me the purpose of putting a fire in HG's ass and seeing who among those who scumread HG means it. your absent of voting when you should have been the first one to vote give me a story that you don't have real reads.
I dunno. I’ve lost sense of why HEM wants to put a fire under HG’s ass. This whole “I like the wagon but I don’t want to lynch” methodology is slippery to me. Might be my failing, dunno.
off as in a bad angle. like it doesn't make sense to me and could come from scum but it doesn't necessarily make sense for scum to be pushing me to vote like this either.
In post 243, humaneatingmonkey wrote:if i unvote, and you vote HG, I will vote Exemplar, and HG will be in quasi-L-1 while putting pressure on Exemplar as well. This sounds like a good deal.
In post 243, humaneatingmonkey wrote:if i unvote, and you vote HG, I will vote Exemplar, and HG will be in quasi-L-1 while putting pressure on Exemplar as well. This sounds like a good deal.
i will agree to this. i assume town will be able to work out what happened here if you orchestrate a hammer while i sleep.
In post 251, humaneatingmonkey wrote:you've played with me before, do you think this is a likely scenario in scum!Monkey? Why is it more on me than on them, if they themselves put them at L-1?
the aggressively and openly pushing for you want would be well within likelihood from scum!monkey. why is it more on you than the other person who votes if you hammer someone that you agreed not to vote on without my okay or until after i have moved my vote? well because you made this agreement and they did not.
In post 258, humaneatingmonkey wrote:why would i, as scum, quickhammer my supposed scum buddy, based on your reads? why is my scumminess lessened greatly if holdengolden flips town?
my reads are not foolproof. just because i think someone is the most likely to be mafia it doesn't make it so. i meant to say your scumminess would be lessened greatly if holdengolden flipped mafia. i am quite tired.
This interaction is exceeding good for monkey and the opposite for inutile. Flatly, this is the towniest that monkey has read to me all game. Objectively, though, the point he made could come from either scum or town. But damn it’s a good point.
In post 264, farside22 wrote:First gut scum read goes to Porkens. Holden post 40 read as buddying.
Exeplar reads a little trying too hard.
In post 76, Exemplar wrote:What I mean is why it would look like you were coordinating? Does scum ever coordinate posts like that? I don't think so.
yes, yes they do.
popopop seems weird.
Feeling better about Holden, Exemplar still reads as scummy.
I don't get monkey's point about Holden.
In post 141, Porkens wrote:I’m just glancing at posts but Holden talking about TVs this late is p scum
This is pretty weak.
Don't like exemplar's back and forth with popopo. Call's him tunnel, then when called out by monkey switches to scummy with this.
I thought his case was genuine enough, but if he's not seeing his fault and actually declaring me caught scum in page 8 after my response, he might just be scum.
I like this analysis, it looks to be coming from a scumhunting POV, the read on me is totally justified. The only problem is that scum Farside can fake all of this in her sleep.
In post 266, bugspray wrote:what the fuck I keep looking away for a few minutes to like 5 more pages
That’s scummy. Bugspray is scummy. Let me check their iso…yeah really scummy.
In post 160, humaneatingmonkey wrote:this wagon is now a lynch [HEM, gobbledygook, Porkens, inutile, bugspray] based on intention to vote. if the people who were saying stuff about HG being possible scum aren't here and still in their RVS mode, scum is in this wagon.
In post 166, inutile wrote:i currently have a scumread on holdengolden. it is the strongest read i have so far. if that is what you are interpreting as intention to vote, then yes, i have 'intention to vote'. if you are saying that i should do so now and we should immediately lynch holdengolden otherwise i am mafia i have a hard time believing that is a town thought process.
who said i wanted to immediately lynch him? i said wagon.
so you want me to vote holdengolden to L-1 in order to simply say there was a wagon? but you don't want him to claim at that point?
Claims only happen when there's intent to hammer. I want a wagon to force spotlight on two candidates and watch how people interact with it.
WHY are you still not voting HG?
In post 168, humaneatingmonkey wrote:i am scumreading you based on the things you've posted, and I'm still finding the reasons why. meanwhile this wagon should get strated.
In post 219, inutile wrote:he is at L-2. my vote would put him to L-1, at which point it would not be unreasonable for him to claim and it is also possible he would be lynched. i am 'soft' on my scumread to the extent that my putting additional pressure on him in the form of my vote seems more a net negative than a net positive at this point in the game. why is my vote necessary? what purpose does it serve for you?
okay. this makes sense. although claims only happen at intent to hammer, not at L-1 automatically. I've seen countless of L-1s where a claim wasn't necessary because it's understood that a hammer is bad for both town and scum. But whatever. i haven't been paying attention in the VCs. i want a wagon to form and your vote is necessary. it serves me the purpose of putting a fire in HG's ass and seeing who among those who scumread HG means it. your absent of voting when you should have been the first one to vote give me a story that you don't have real reads.
So it's an actual read -> a read plus one your building -> lighting a fire under my ass/reaction test AFTER I bring it up as a possibility to why you are doing this? That's frabicated to hell.
Why do i need a fire under my ass 3 hours in when you started your Holden wagon?
Why arent you looking into those who hopped on the wagon as well if it's a reaction test? Nothing changed for your test when I asked if this was a legit read as inutile already refused to vote me. Bugs voted me for being "werid", and porkin had to be asked by you to actually follow through on his RVS thing. I get scum isn't committal, but why dont you think scum wouldnt jump also at your offering to wagon me in this context? If you are town, it's a perfect scapegoat situation for them.
Let me guess, you rolled scum and decided to do your usual death tunnel strategy on me.
Ehhhhhh my teeeeeth….ummm…in my conspiracy theory Holden doesn’t KNOW that monkey is on his team so the conflict can be real but it also could still be distancing. I wish I could flush that theory out of my mind I feel like I cant be objective really.
In post 274, Exemplar wrote:inutile is town.
monkey is scummy, interrogation feels a little forced.
popo is VI.
Holden is a who knows. Maybe town.
gobble is scummy if that's all they have to say after coming back to several 1v1s/arguments.
farside might be town. I can understand her takes.
Porkens is scummy. The vote and previous double explanation without going back and checking.
bugspray is null.
VOTE: Porkens L-2
Exemplar is definitely frustrated, but is this readslist coming from scum? The line “interrogation feels alittle forced” stands out to me as … well…forced. I guess OVERALL I get a townsense from this post.
In post 18, HoldenGolden wrote:I mean I already know who you are regardless based on the bugsprayyyy post so
wait do you know that i know? VOTE: holdengolden for not telling me
I could perhaps understand it if all bugs has done since RvS was say the game is moving too fast if that's all they did, but they confirmed their vote on me was no longer RVS.
This is a strange defense of bugs. Bugs has literally done nothing all game and yet holden is giving props for “confirming that their vote was not RVS” but the stated reason is goofy bullshit so why this defense at all? But why would scum Holden defend bugspray? I don’t get it. It’s a terrible defense either way.
In post 283, popopopopopopo wrote:Porkens his content is not too good but the obliviousnes in parts strikes me as a little town. Idk, porkens is a cypher.
In post 298, humaneatingmonkey wrote:I don't really care whether you are very productive on your end. I don't think I'm going to be productive just picking what say apart. I'm probably gonna have a lot of false positives. Meanwhile, I like watching you interact with everything else. I don't want to take attention away from Exemplar and Porkens.
More of those hidden messages. “I know you are scum, do you hear me? Do you get that I’m saying I KNOW your scum? I don’t care if you are productive ON YOUR END. Don’t worry about my reads I have lots of false positives.” Am I going fucking crazy here? Beautiful Mind style?
In post 283, popopopopopopo wrote:Porkens his content is not too good but the obliviousnes in parts strikes me as a little town. Idk, porkens is a cypher.
Ive gone back and forth on my read of porkens. Didn't like the l-1 vote without reasons. Otoh he reads a bit goofy/trollish. He wasn't trollish in the game i modded with him but its hard to see why he's doing it.
In post 320, Porkens wrote:I feel like Holden is scumanhis partners derailed his wagon but exemplar replacing out is hella scummy
So you think intuite is my scum partner?
Derail as in stop it or derail as in pushing a counterwagon?
This post is INTERESTING for a couple reasons. I’m not sure how HG landed on intuite as who I was talking about. (in point of fact I didn’t know who I was talking about, though I want to reanalyze that – I want to say monkey put the breaks on?? *not sure about this*
Farside and pox7, I voted Porkens for this post specifically. But I had been scumreading Porkens since he said he wasn’t going to fake an RVS vote which reads scummy to me since a townie shouldn’t need to fake anything.
Farside and pox7, what alignment do you think Porkens is?
Farside and pox7, I voted Porkens for this post specifically. But I had been scumreading Porkens since he said he wasn’t going to fake an RVS vote which reads scummy to me since a townie shouldn’t need to fake anything.
Farside and pox7, what alignment do you think Porkens is?
In post 326, popopopopopopo wrote:honestly the best possible play exemplar could make there as scum is to replace out. why dont we save the mod and his replacement a lot of trouble
Why are trying to entice me to vote when I already said I prefer to wait?
Pedit: which I'm fine with. But your painting the replacement situation as only scummy in 326.
what spurred you to give this read at that moment?
I was commenting on the other non HEM stuff in the pages I was alseep for
Curious. You votes examplar, was fine with him at l-1 ,but feel gun shy when he replaces out........why?
Same townread of this farside post. Same crippling paranoia that she’s scum playing well.
In post 360, gobbledygook wrote:Like how can anyone read Porkens iso and think that he is scumhunting. It is truly baffling he isn’t six feet under already
In post 360, gobbledygook wrote:Like how can anyone read Porkens iso and think that he is scumhunting. It is truly baffling he isn’t six feet under already
i think porkens is mislynch bait, this post solidifies my scumread of gobble
In post 360, gobbledygook wrote:Like how can anyone read Porkens iso and think that he is scumhunting. It is truly baffling he isn’t six feet under already
i think porkens is mislynch bait, this post solidifies my scumread of gobble
Please don’t I’m a 1-shot hider. I’m fine claiming this because even if I get targeted for an rb they can’t stop me
This is a really overblown reaction IMO. One short little back and forth and your begging and claiming. Read on tho…
In post 360, gobbledygook wrote:Like how can anyone read Porkens iso and think that he is scumhunting. It is truly baffling he isn’t six feet under already
So why the unvote? Are you scum reading anyone else?
Sorry I saw the unvote and I thought you voted examplar.
@GG: I voted pork when I saw the vote on examplar, but after examp made his comment it reinforced my scum read on him and thought about porkens in a different aspect. With the waiting to see what else he says.
In post 377, gobbledygook wrote:I’m going to hide behind pork if we don’t lynch him. He’s probably scum so I’m probably dead. If not scum shoot him and take 2 town out but I forced them to kill mislynch bait
are you weak?
Yes. I die of I target scum
HIDER CLAIM
I'll leave my reaction out of the spoiler since it’s the priority right now:
WOW I was not expecting this turn in the game. Interesting and puzzling. I don’t understand how hider works exactly but I assume others in the thread do and will jump on any inaccuracies. So what gobbled is saying here is that he’s going to hide behind me and nothing can stop that. If he dies, that means he targeted scum. Right?
AND if he doesn’t die, that means I’m confirmed town BUT if I get nightkilled then we both die?
AND I assume that means he cant be nightkilled while hiding.
SO if all the above is right; we will both die tonight because otherwise im clear tomorrow.
I have further thoughts about this…but I haven’t checked the thread since I started this so I’ll treat it as a separate matter.
ANALYSIS
HoldenGolden and humaneatingmonkey have a weird connection. Looks like traitor/scum to me. Strong feeling that Exemplar is also part of this theoretical scum team. This could all be paranoia. Exemplar is the scummiest on an individual basis from that group. Bugspray is scummier than all of them but borders on lynchbait territory. popopopopopopo and inutile are middling, with popopopopopopo being slightly townier because inutile is somewhat choosey in his engagements. gobbledygook is strongly town, and so is farside22 but I could easily be completely wrong. I 100% believe gobbledygook's claim.
READSLSIT
OK finally here is a reads list. I kept the player list up on the side of my screen while reading and moved people up/down as I read. It’s not a perfect method and sometimes its hard to see where my comments and reads line up. If you ask me I will try to explain to the best of my ability.
I'd put porkers on the town side. Though I disagree with some of your points, I like your mindset and paranoia. Your read list is also very pretty.
HEM isn't a traitor. He and Holden simply have a history. HEM rolled scum the last two blitz games and won another scum game that Holden was in also. I agree with Inutile that there is a good chance their interaction is theatre.
