Mini Normal 2141: The World of Tomorrow [Game over!]

[mavsfan41]

@Dunn: you really seem to think Puppy is scum. Who are potential pairings? Who is definitely not paired with Puppy?

[Umlaut]

Vote Count 4.4

Dunnstral

(2): CantLynchAPuppy, votato

hellbooks

(2): VP Baltar, ready2rock

CantLynchAPuppy

(1): Dunnstral

Not Voting

(2): hellbooks, mavsfan41

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-06-14 03:20:00)

[votato]

Vote Count 4.4

Dunnstral

(2): CantLynchAPuppy, votato

hellbooks

(2): VP Baltar, ready2rock

CantLynchAPuppy

(1): Dunnstral

Not Voting

(2): hellbooks, mavsfan41

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-06-14 03:20:00)

assume for a minute dunn is scum. His buddy probably wants to be on a counterwagon, but they probably dont want to be on the same wagon because it looks like dunn is the lynch. that means scum dunn probably means scum VP, yes? im still thinking the likely scumpairs are [dunn, vp] or [hellbooks, puppy], and im not sure where i would put mav in that mix. hellbooks and mav: why arent you voting at all? dunn, why are you on a vanity wagon? r2r, why books over dunn?

[mavsfan41]

Okay, I went back and read large parts of this game over and here’s where I’m at....
Puppy is off-wagon on EVERY vote. His reasons for being off wagon are weak at best. The Gamma vote...

ok, i'm all caught up, i didn't see the stuff about roles and claims until the end

not sure there's much i can add, one of blair/gamma is scum, i've been townreading blair most of the game and will probably side that way

Here comes a Gamma vote right?

ok, i'm all caught up, i didn't see the stuff about roles and claims until the end

not sure there's much i can add, one of blair/gamma is scum, i've been townreading blair most of the game and will probably side that way

a very small part of me is tempted to say that we should not lynch blair or gammagooey and just let gamma live until n3 so he can shoot blair if he can

but, meh, can't outsmart the counter claims i think

Nope. With all the reasons he’s found to actually vote, this one seems weird to not vote here. Day 2 is the only day that ended without Puppy being off wagon. This strikes me as Puppy knowing who will flip what.

If Puppy is scum, I think the only possible pairings are VP/Hellbooks. My guess here would be Hellbooks. A puppy/vp would mean an ALL TOWN lynch in day 1 of NPOM. A hellbooks/puppy pairing would make more sense considering the Gamma lynch. (Hellbooks wasn’t on the NPOM, that was Atarashi super early.) I also don’t see scum!hellbooks jumping off my wagon with 1480. Hellbooks does vote puppy in 1811 but unvotes very shortly after Quick put puppy at L-1. This would also make sense from the day 1 perspective of votato getting on Atarashi and then puppy tunneling the ever loving crap of votato, a read he supposedly carried throughout day 1 (omitted for some reason day 2) and then brought back up day 3. Another possible scum partner would be VP, but I don’t quite believe VP is scum.

@Puppy: what’s your feelings on votato? You’ve seemed to think he’s scum and now have switched to Dunn. I do not believe Dunn/votato are a pairing meaning at least one is town. Voting Dunn, do you now believe votato to be town?

The off-wagon Puppy has the inverse. And that is Dunn. I’ve stated my feelings on Dunn especially my rejection of the early bus on Gamma. That being said, the day 1 lynch must have 1 scum on it right? Right? That would mean Dunn, votato, or hellbooks. Scum is here. (The only other living players on that were R2R and myself.) I hate Dunn’s hammer on midway ESPECIALLY since he has conviction puppy is scum than ran to midway. That would suggest he believed a Puppy/midway pairing. He never mentions this. Not even once. Not even close. He independently suggests scum in midway with 1860 which is a wack post. The hammer of NPOM was bad. The hammer of midway was waaaay worse! And before you @me Dunn, your progression on midway was nonexistent. It was a hammer to hammer. You hasn’t previously read him as scum and if you think puppy is scum, why even hammer midway at all? That’s super anti-town. This makes me actually really want to vote Dunn.

A quick list of other players here:
VP - could see a sneaky scenario where he is scum. Partners... um, votato and puppy? I know it was super early, but I would say votato’s 398 eliminates a pairing as votato refused to move his vote from Atarashi, and then he finally moved it to bus? Nah. Puppy/VP is a thing that might be a thing? Not sure. But that’s the only possible pairing for me that has VP as scum.

Votato - no clue still. Scum!puppy makes votato town for sure. I don’t see a votato/hellbooks based of the Atarashi interaction from day 1. Votato I would say is likely town due to him not really having a partner unless it’s 11:2.

Hellbooks - could really be scum with many players still left. Also, the wagon on me is all town if hellbooks is town. If that’s the case, I think votato would be scum here as I would’ve been lynched with an all town wagon if town!hellbooks and town votato.

I guess I feel it’s either hellbooks/puppy or hellbooks Dunn based off process of elimination. Hellbooks is likely scum in these scenarios. So I’m okay there. However, a puppy/Dunn lynch would provide town with more info. As it essentially clears the other player. Puppy would be my choice here but Dunn, please be less anti-town and muddying stuff up!! Why the 180 to midway after seemingly never previously SR’ing him. That’s sketch af.

@dunn: who is puppy’s partner and why? Who can’t be puppy’s partner and why? Also, why are you now going from lol hammering to immediately jumping at puppy from the get-go? Also, in day 3, just before the hammer, in 2069, you have scum as votato/puppy. Surely not as a team right? That would mean you would think midway is partnered with votato (DEFINITELY not the case) or partnered with puppy (which you never bring up ONCE!). I’ve now changed my mind...

VOTE: Dunn

This has been one long stream of consciousness post.
Possibly pairings: hellbooks and that’s basically it....

Pedit: @votato: why not hellbooks with Dunn? 2208 would be VP lynching hellbooks with Dunn as the only real option yes?

[votato]

"
Hellbooks - could really be scum with many players still left. Also, the wagon on me is all town if hellbooks is town. If that’s the case, I think votato would be scum here as I would’ve been lynched with an all town wagon if town!hellbooks and town votato." Mav could you explain this a bit more? Uh i dont remember why not dunn and hellbooks. Ill go back and reread tomorrow. I mean they are both very scum.

[mavsfan41]

"
Hellbooks - could really be scum with many players still left. Also, the wagon on me is all town if hellbooks is town. If that’s the case, I think votato would be scum here as I would’ve been lynched with an all town wagon if town!hellbooks and town votato." Mav could you explain this a bit more? Uh i dont remember why not dunn and hellbooks. Ill go back and reread tomorrow. I mean they are both very scum.

Day 3 I was at L-1 when you gave intent to hammer. Post 1450 is the mod’s VC at the height of my wagon. It consists of midway (confirmed town), hellbooks, R2R (he’s confirmed town in my book cause Gamma tried to get him lynched... TWICE), and Quick (confirmed town). Say you had been the 5th vote and I’m lynched. If BOTH you and hellbooks are town, that’s an all town wagon for the mislynch. I don’t think that’s the case. So if that’s not an all town wagon, by process of elimination, either you or hellbooks would be scum. I suppose if you want to argue that it is, an off wagon roster would include Puppy, Dunn and VP. So I do think 1 scum is on and 1 scum is off and hellbooks/Dunn makes the most sense.

Also, one of these two things totes happened:
Scum!Dunn lol hammered TWICE and bus’ed his partner early on Blair’s case that absolutely no one bought
OR
Town!Dunn had at least one scum between votato/puppy (highly doubt that was his presumed pairing cause it makes NO SENSE) and said fuck it, voted to hammer midway for legit no reason with no progression of any kind.

[Dunnstral]

Well, I'm a vt. Hopefully my death gets people looking at Puppy

my case on him is... just look at his posts on me starting from a few pages before I voted him yesterday

[mavsfan41]

@Dunn: dude, you gotta give me more than that? Who is Puppy’s partner? You had votato/Puppy not that long ago. So now you’re on Puppy? What is your read on votato? Why hammer midway if 1) he’s extremely unlikely to be partnered with votato and 2) you’ve previously never really suspected him and didn’t previously suggest a Puppy/midway pairing? Look, I tried to get Puppy lynched yesterday. Both Puppy and midway were at 3 a piece then votato and eventually you jumped to midway for the lynch.

[CantHateAPuppy]

i think hellbooks in the last few pages looks fine

Looks fine? You serious?

Who is Dunn's partner then?

i think your best point was hellbooks seemingly not coming prepared with any reads on me/dunn

But the rest, the tone and style and content, I thought all looked fine. if im thinking about it some more, maybe declaring hellbooks "fine" is too much, but she's not my first buddy for dunn. i would have to think more about that, but i would think votato and mavs are more likely TBH

in fact, when hellbooks asks me who will I consider if dunn flips town, I'm not even going to answer that.

Circling back to this. I think there is a very high probability that Dunn flips scum and this question is moot, which is why I didn't really answer it before. HOWEVER, I'm going to entertain the possibility you are town here for a moment and this is actually a genuine question. So assuming town!hellbrooks, if Dunn flips town, then I think I would need to challenge my assumptions to this point. Puppy would look less town probably, which is a tough pill for me to swallow because I've been reading puppy as town for quite some time now. Votato is votato and I think still potentially fits in a solve, though I'd want to do a deeper review. I'd also have to challenge my read that Mavs was being earnest in his (admittedly) unproveable claim. I still think r2r is town, even if Dunn flips green. Mostly, it'd be a complete re-evaluation of my reads to this point and making sure I'm not following any bad assumptions.

not sure you're making sense here VP, because if dunn flips town and then we lynch hellbooks town, wouldn't that be game over? i don't think we have room for two mislynches here

Okay, I went back and read large parts of this game over and here’s where I’m at....
Puppy is off-wagon on EVERY vote. His reasons for being off wagon are weak at best. The Gamma vote...

admit i was surprised to read this and then find a dunn vote at the end

i admit i've been off wagon all game, honestly its kind of a weakness of mine as a player that i don't like to join the wagon. well, take this all as wifom or w/e, but i think it would have been easier for me to join one wagon or two to fit in better. if you really think i'm scum over this, i'd like to heard your thoughts about whether the lynches that i wasn't on have been town-lead or which if any the other scum has been on (which u half do below)

@Puppy: what’s your feelings on votato? You’ve seemed to think he’s scum and now have switched to Dunn. I do not believe Dunn/votato are a pairing meaning at least one is town. Voting Dunn, do you now believe votato to be town?

i still lean toward votato as scum, probably more if somehow dunn is town, though i admit i also think votato could be a dunn partner so i'm not sure how much i'm tunnelling. if i accept dunn as scum i think i have to have one other scumread, and i'm not sure who else that would be, so i half want to wait and see. i don't think it's r2r and i lean null-town on hellbooks

That being said, the day 1 lynch must have 1 scum on it right? Right? That would mean Dunn, votato, or hellbooks. Scum is here. (The only other living players on that were R2R and myself.)

This is my thesis too, which is how I came to dunn in the first place and part of why i still am not sure about votato.

[mavsfan41]

@Puppy: not gonna lie, I thought when I started that post I’d end up voting you as well. But Dunn’s day 3 actions leading up to the hammer of midway is beyond scummy, especially since he had never expressed any real feelings on midway being scum and flipped from you who he had been SR’ing to midway only to go back to you. Seems sorta reckless of scum to hammer like that and he’s done it twice now. This would obviously attract attention so I do have some reservations about Dunn, but Dunn must’ve thought Quick would potentially flip the wagon to Dunn. That and he figured no one off the wagon would be hammering, so he felt he needed to. The other hammer options other than him were hellbooks, you, and myself. I wasn’t budging. So basically you or hellbooks. And Dunn must’ve felt no one would likely hammer.

[VP Baltar]

not sure you're making sense here VP, because if dunn flips town and then we lynch hellbooks town, wouldn't that be game over? i don't think we have room for two mislynches here

That's not what I was saying though....

I said if Dunn flips town, I'd have to reconsider my next position very closely.

Anyhow, I don't think that's going to happen and that claim was meaningless.

VOTE: Dunn

If I get NKed, don't let hellbrooks skate by

[VP Baltar]

Whoops, waiting for that morning coffee to kick in

UNVOTE: hellbrooks
VOTE: Dunn

[hellbooks]

Hi i intend to make a longer post when i find my way to my computer but i find that i rather urgently ought to say that I am coming around on VP baltar.

[mavsfan41]

@hellbooks: VP just hammered... you’d better post soon since we’re in twilight. And Umlaut is a solid mod and pretty active. So not much time before day ends

@Umlaut: thanks for being an active mod!

[CantHateAPuppy]

@Puppy: not gonna lie, I thought when I started that post I’d end up voting you as well. But Dunn’s day 3 actions leading up to the hammer of midway is beyond scummy, especially since he had never expressed any real feelings on midway being scum and flipped from you who he had been SR’ing to midway only to go back to you. Seems sorta reckless of scum to hammer like that and he’s done it twice now. This would obviously attract attention so I do have some reservations about Dunn, but Dunn must’ve thought Quick would potentially flip the wagon to Dunn. That and he figured no one off the wagon would be hammering, so he felt he needed to. The other hammer options other than him were hellbooks, you, and myself. I wasn’t budging. So basically you or hellbooks. And Dunn must’ve felt no one would likely hammer.

so i read this post and then went back and and read the other post (2228) again

at first i thought "this is a town progression, scum mavs would not come in set up on me and then switch to dunn"

then i thought "wait maybe this is exactly how mavs positions himself to bus a buddy"

and in a little paranoia i have to admit that if somehow dunn is scum this would be a great way for you to set up a second mislynch on me tomorrow

so help me out here. i'm not sure i have any specific questions to ask, i kinnd of just want to hear you talk about this a little more

[CantHateAPuppy]

wait that was hammer?

[CantHateAPuppy]

@Umlaut: thanks for being an active mod!

second!

[mavsfan41]

@Puppy: the way you and Dunn are trying to get each other lynched, this reads TvS. Dunn’s hammer do strike me as something scum would not want to do. But his hammer of midway then going back to you is basically your fear here. Dunn pressured by Quick end of day 3. Dunn’s response -> hammer and Quick is NK’ed. Dunn being pressured today and asked the same questions and being put at L-1. Ignores all questions and claims VT.

I think I’m alive over Quick either cause scum!Puppy didn’t want to kill me and have everyone swarm on him OR cause scum!Dunn knew getting me to lynch Puppy with him was almost assured. Quick was such mislynch fodder that VP & myself had voted him. Votato I think would’ve as well. He was all over the place and had lead lynched on NPOM, resisted the Gamma lynch forever, and was a major reason midway was lynched. Why he was NK’ed is beyond me. NKA is useless and very subject to WIFOM but I’d be lying if I didn’t say it played some factor in my turn on Dunn.

[CantHateAPuppy]

I think I’m alive over Quick either cause scum!Puppy didn’t want to kill me and have everyone swarm on him OR cause scum!Dunn knew getting me to lynch Puppy with him was almost assured. Quick was such mislynch fodder that VP & myself had voted him. Votato I think would’ve as well. He was all over the place and had lead lynched on NPOM, resisted the Gamma lynch forever, and was a major reason midway was lynched. Why he was NK’ed is beyond me. NKA is useless and very subject to WIFOM but I’d be lying if I didn’t say it played some factor in my turn on Dunn.

yeah, this really matches what i thought about the NK.

i have a good feeling about this lynch, i really feel like i caught scum!

[Umlaut]

@Umlaut: thanks for being an active mod!

Thank you all for being active players!

[Umlaut]

Vote Count 4.5 (Final)

Dunnstral

(4): CantLynchAPuppy, votato, mavsfan41, VP Baltar

CantLynchAPuppy

(1): Dunnstral

hellbooks

(1): ready2rock

Not Voting

(1): hellbooks

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

[Umlaut]

Dunnstral was lynched!

Spoiler: What was he?!

Welcome to the game,

Peter Pan

Dunnstral. You are a

Mafia Strongman

. Your partner(s)

[REDACTED]

Abilities

• During all phases of the game, you and your teammate(s) may talk in a private thread, linked below.
  
• Every night you and your teammate(s) may choose one person to kill. You must specify which of you carries out the shot.
  
• If you personally commit the factional kill, it cannot be blocked.

Win Condition

You win when the Mafia is the sole surviving faction (or when nothing can prevent this).

Links

Game thread

[Mafia Private Thread]

---

Night 4

Everyone sleep tight!
The day will dawn in (expired on 2020-06-10 16:10:00).
(If all living players PM me their consent, I will end the night early.)

[Umlaut]

CantLynchAPuppy died during the night!

Spoiler: What was he?!

Welcome to the game, CantLynchAPuppy. You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Abilities

You have no special abilities.

Win Condition

You win when the Town is the sole surviving faction.

Links

Game thread

---

Day 5

Vote Count 5.0

Not Voting

(5): votato, VP Baltar, ready2rock, hellbooks, mavsfan41

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-06-20 16:11:00)

[VP Baltar]

I'm most interested in hearing from hellbrooks and votato first. I also think we may be at the point where a mass claim is beneficial. I have thoughts about the order, but if we do it I think r2r should decide since he is probably the closest to confirmed town I see.

My thoughts on where the scum is haven't shifted too much since I believed Dunn would flip red.

@Mavs - interested to hear from you how the Dunn and puppy flips shifted your perspective at all.

[mavsfan41]

@VP: I think Dunn’s push on votato cleared him. I think R2R is cleared (curious why he’s still alive tbh). So that just leaves you and hellbooks. I’m pretty sure one of you is definitely the final scum. So I’m okay lynching one then in lylo if it was a mislynch, lynching the other. Idk which one I want to start with tbh. Hellbooks didn’t vote Dunn or Gamma. You could’ve late bus’ed in both scenarios.

As for R2R, Gamma hard pushed him twice. And R2R came into day 4 pushing Dunn. Unless scum is seriously bus’ing the shit out of each other for distance, R2R is my most confirmed town at this point.

Votato is trickier, but Dunn pushed both him and Puppy. I could potentially see a scenario where Dunn lopped votato with Puppy for distance as their day 1 exchange would make it nearly impossible for them to be scum together, and Dunn would’ve known that.

I’m a-okay with anyone coming out in terms of night actions to help resolve the two spots mentioned above.