Open 781: JK9++ Game Over!

[PenguinPower]

Flat out lying about modding me dude.

[Menalque]

Okay, I'm gonna lay my cards on the table before I go to sleep

Town:

Bingle

-- I am still a little iffy, quite frankly, about how he characterised my interaction with Datisi, but it didn't feel like a shitpush looking back at it. There's still some elements in his ISO that make me uneasy, like his hard townread on dats as of 148. I don't really care about/understand any of the mechanics so I haven't really read any of those posts. I'm hoping some town who's better than me at processing it can double check it, but I also kind of trust him that scum!him doesn't lie about mechanics anyway. He's not wrong that I kind of made up 140 (or at least made up the reasons even if the gut feel was really there). I agree with his take that in a world where he's town, the turkey could be sheeping along with my push. Reading back I'm still personally bugged by the way he seemed at times to be interacting with me in bad faith (see: 354 but after checking that with datisi, S_S) I think it's more likely me being over sensitive because he was calling me scum. If he is scum tho, and his partners aren't exactly (datisi, S_S) then I get to point out that he was, in fact, engaging me in bad faith and you guys should have backed me up. Ahem, I digress. I think the way he's clashing with me makes sense if he has a genuine scumread on me at the time he says he does, I like his shift onto gobbles because it came at a time I was thinking about doing the same thing but he pre-empted me, and honestly I don't think scum!him pushes

me

(knowing how much I hate being shitpushed and how tunnely and hyperposty I can be) for reasons as bad as the ones he gave when he was scumreading me. This may be a little arrogant: I don't care.

Datisi

-- I just feel like she's being honest in her interactions with me. Could she be faking being pissed off (or genuinely pissed off but bc she feels caught for the wrong reasons) at the beginning? Sure. Could she just be overall emotionally manipulating me to make me feel guilty for being uneasy on her? Also very possible. But fuck if this doesn't just feel like town!datisi. I think skitter is right too that her being sort of passive may actually be a towntell, with her not trying too hard to get into the towncore.

Maria

-- called out both gobbles and skitter at times when I was thinking similar things about them being weird and/or scummy. if gobbles and skitter were to flip town then would be worth revisiting as possible pushing things that look optically scummy without being so. But mostly I jam with those reads at the times when they came.

slightly weaker town:

fb

-- I would feel better about this if he actually produced his analyses of 3 players including a faked one. As I'm writing this I'm kind of realising that I don't have as clear reasons for townreading him as I thought and so I've moved him into this weak town category instead of letting him sit with the other three. There's, to an extent, the same thing happening with pure boi -- he's townier than the people at the bottom and there can only be so many scum. If there were a couple of town flips there, he'd definitely be someone to revisit. Overall, I feel this level of presence reminds me of him being town. I am cautious about that too though, as I've never seen scum!him, I don't think. There are bits of solving in ISO that look genuine to me too (see: 283, 294, 296, 516, 636). So, in conclusion: remembered him as town, couldn't put my finger on why, looked at his ISO as part of making this readslist and now feel better about this read again. He'll probably be horrendously offended to be my 4th highest towered.

Townlean:

Blake

-- she really hasn't done enough for me to feel good about her being town but I liked her readslist a lot and it seemed to line up very well with mine. I think her seeing the game that similarly to me is probably enough for me to just leave her here for now. I wouldn't say this is locked in, but I'd feel better if she lynches scum today.

Pure boi

-- idk, he doesn't feel manipulative to me here (not that he ever does so *shrug*). he's mostly in town lean because I do feel positively about him even if it's not for good reasons, and because there are a bunch of slots I feel worse about (and there's only 3 scum). A good place to revisit if 2/3 of my bottom 3 turn up town.

True null:

S_S

-- honestly he felt fine right at the beginning, but I didn't love his re-entry and what he seemed to focus on with his comments. He's someone I read as town when he's not (I've never successfully identified scum!S_S) but also someone liable to being pushed by scum when he's town because of his fairly idiosyncratic style. I'd err town here, honestly, if it weren't for me not liking his reads on the game. On the flip side, is the CW to my favourite take for scum who's being pushed by my top take for scum and another slot I feel uneasy about. Leaving him here for now, not interested in lynching today. Hoping to sheep someone good at reading him.

Scumlean:

skitter30

-- I really don't jam with skitter this game, and that's weird because in the past when we've both been town, we normally do. That being said, I think that mislynching skitter on D1 is basically a wet dream for scum, and so I'm not really interested in lynching here. I find it strange that she can't get to more solid reads given that she has got a conception of what she thinks scum would be doing, and that she won't narrow it down further.

chem

-- I haven't really seen him do anything in line with what I expect from town him. I think dodging and promising content later while being funny is much more in line with scum!chem then town!chem who I think does always try to provide reads even when he's strapped for time or not around or whatever. But being lurky on D1 is not necessarily a scumtell for chem and he often gets mislynched to it. Plausibly scum, but not really an ideal D1, I don't think.

Scum:

lilith2013

-- my weakest scumread of the three, but also I think playing an under-the-radar game while not being actually lurky. I've been intentionally ignoring her at points, and she doesn't really seem bothered by it which is lowkey something I'd expect from someone intersested in solving the game. There's quite a lot of her describing what's happened rather than analysing it imo (see: 376, 383). She's pushing bingle with cover from my push earlier, I think, which also twigs me as off. I think I could be wrong here because I have less experience with her, and I do tend a little towards scumreading those I have less experience with in PLs like this (there's like a brief golden period after 1-2 games played with someone where I feel good about it before I start getting really paranoid about being wrong on them in the future -- see: datisi, Iconeum, ducky). I overall get a strong vibe of her wanting to look like she's doing stuff without really doing stuff. It also pings me mildly that she felt the need to make 858 as I think town that's busy typically just is busy and tends to drop content in when they can rather than excuse their not being able to do so. It's not lockscumable imo, but it is a tell that I've used and had used against me in the past and that in conjunction with the other stuff is enough for her to be in my solve.

PP

-- seems to be flying under the radar and avoiding committing to things, even when directly asked. (see: me asking about bingle) Generally, he reminds me more of when I modded for scum!pinguino, and the overall approach there (do little proactive, be funny and sassy, respond when needed) than times when we've been town together (see: turret's bizarre adventure pt2 where I also think he was more pro-active). Notable that he was the first one to hop off when the turkey got to fake L-1.

turkey

-- when me and gobbles were fighting, he seemed happy to get onboard. His presence has generally been very weak, and he really reminds me here of how he approached his Team Mafia game. He's good enough as scum to fake it to an extent, but not to be excited. I agree with Maria that he lacks the intense conviction in what he's doing that he has when town.

[PenguinPower]

And

that

is a pagetop.

[Menalque]

Flat out lying about modding me dude.

with how you were or that I modded you?

[PenguinPower]

With how I was. Kinda stupid for me to argue about something that actually occurred

[Menalque]

I genuinely can't tell if you're joking rn

[Menalque]

With how I was. Kinda stupid for me to argue about something that actually occurred

I thought you were joking, tbh.

[Firebringer]

i agree both PP and gobbles are flying under radar. Not so sure about lilith.

[skitter30]

It also pings me mildly that she felt the need to make 858 as I think town that's busy typically just is busy and tends to drop content in when they can rather than excuse their not being able to do so. It's not lockscumable imo, but it is a tell that I've used and had used against me in the past and that in conjunction with the other stuff is enough for her to be in my solve.

the thing is that i think that scum!her just doesn't bother popping in, which is why i think it's low-key townie

i dont' agree with much of your readslist and that's a bit troubling

[Menalque]

That was my impression of you there. I had another look at the game before I posted too, and I'd say it fits. I also think your aggression level here and desire to immediately call me scum is telling, but I'm willing to listen if you want to go into how you think I'm misrepresenting your play.

[PenguinPower]

With how I was. Kinda stupid for me to argue about something that actually occurred

I thought you were joking, tbh.

No. Like that game was one of the only scum games where I actually tried and made a big brained fake claim to try and see my team through. For you to describe me in this game as the same as that game is a flat out lie.

Serious.

[Menalque]

With how I was. Kinda stupid for me to argue about something that actually occurred

I thought you were joking, tbh.

No. Like that game was one of the only scum games where I actually tried and made a big brained fake claim to try and see my team through. For you to describe me in this game as the same as that game is a flat out lie.

Serious.

I strongly disagree. I think behaviourally the two are incredibly similar, and I think you used the fakeclaim that you were (if memory serves forced into) as a shield to explain why you were behaving that way.

[PenguinPower]

If you’re telling me you actually reviewed it and aren’t going off memory then yeah, you’re scum.

[Firebringer]

im waiting for penguin power to spice up this game before i start accusing him of being not a real penguin but a fake penguin who is also scum.

[skitter30]

it's actually also making me realize i do in fact have opinions on many people cuz you're opinions are feeling kinda wrong

pedit which game are y'all taking about
pedit oh that one
yeah that's one of the ones that i think he feels a bit different from

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: mena

Parked.

[PenguinPower]

At least I have an actual read now.

[Menalque]

It also pings me mildly that she felt the need to make 858 as I think town that's busy typically just is busy and tends to drop content in when they can rather than excuse their not being able to do so. It's not lockscumable imo, but it is a tell that I've used and had used against me in the past and that in conjunction with the other stuff is enough for her to be in my solve.

the thing is that i think that scum!her just doesn't bother popping in, which is why i think it's low-key townie

i dont' agree with much of your readslist and that's a bit troubling

I disagree. I think Lilith is a slightly insecure scum player (as can be seen in her approach in GnR:IV and her scum thread posting there) and I think it's exactly the sort of thing she might feel like she needs to justify to the thread, especially if she knows she may end up having some pop-ins but not be able to fully engage with people. I don't doubt that she's busy with work -- I doubt that town!her feels the need to preface her commentary with that.

What else do you disagree with and why?

[Firebringer]

Penguin having a spicy scumread on mena. Tell me more.

[Menalque]

If you’re telling me you actually reviewed it and aren’t going off memory then yeah, you’re scum.

I'm going mostly off memory but I had a glance at your ISO there to double check, plus your ISO in furret's where I correctly TR you, and yeah, I think there's a significant difference. Fwiw, I also don't believe that town!you decides to instantly escalate like this with me either rather than try to show me how I'm wrong. I think that hard OMGUSing me is much easier for you as scum, and also would make sense if my scumreads are at least broadly correct because you'd need to discredit me.

[Menalque]

I'd like to let the thread to both react to my readslist and breathe a little (plus it's close to bedtime) so I'm going to step out for now and I'll be back tomorrow for some more spicy content.

[skitter30]

i think she just didn't even bother reading like the latter half of the game of city
tbf that might be because she was in a hydra and had the liberty to do that cuz ss was posting for her, but it still feels sufficiently different to me

bingle, mariar, pb, lilith, pp, and maybe gobble all feel like they're in the wrong place

[PenguinPower]

Penguin having a spicy scumread on mena. Tell me more.

He’s lying. And if he isnt going from memory then it’s to serve an agenda.

Here’s my ISO from that game

Feel free to decide for yourself.

[Firebringer]

I'd like to let the thread to both react to my readslist and breathe a little (plus it's close to bedtime) so I'm going to step out for now and I'll be back tomorrow for some more spicy content.

ill come by to read u bed time stories soon.

[Menalque]

for reference:

scum!pinguino that I think feels similar to here https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

town!pinguino who I think doesn't https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go