Micro 941 | Brass and Shrapnel | Game Over!

[PenguinPower]

Fair, yeah.

[GeorgeBailey]

Votecount 2.3

Not Voting (5): Tuxedo Mask(14), PenguinPower(51), Kilgamayan(49), Hoctac(77), Night 3 Roses(56)

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2020-06-11 13:47:47)

FLAVOR

Hand painted organ pipes - Church in San Jerónimo Tlacochahuaya, Oaxaca MX

[Kilgamayan]

@PP

: What specifically did you find interesting about Koba's wagon disappearing?

No reason for it to disappear completely if he was town.

But that's exactly what happened, so...?

Did Kilga explain somewhere in his wall where his Hoctac scumread went and why that changed?

902, 4th paragraph

[PenguinPower]

It did. But it still doesn’t make sense, and it definitely didn’t make sense pre-flip.

Can you just quote the sentence(s)?

[PenguinPower]

Whatever. I read it. Lylo is not a really good reason to continue your read? What actually made it change?

[Hoctac]

A draw is bad as a loss tbh. Technically, from all of your perspectives, you should want me to be the hammer for any lynch. Since if I'm town and we lynch a supersaint, the best result town can get is a draw at that point.

[Hoctac]

*is as bad as

[Night 3 Roses]

Can someone summarize the case against N3R? I've been feeling pretty good about them for a while.

So hoctac,if your solve is Tux + us, why are you ignoring Kilga's request for the case on us? He should be town according to you so why aren't you talking to Kilga about this?

[Hoctac]

Not confident though. Sigh, I wish we didn't have 2 days left. I'd like to make some semblance of a case but I finally get off V/LA on the 12th...

[Hoctac]

Kilga, why'd you townread Roses?

If we're to talk about stuff based on memory, I didn't like:
▪︎They asked a lot questions but I saw little stated opinions/reads of their own during day 1. It was why I originally voted them.
▪︎Ico OMGUSing me and them bring happy to leave their vote there till deadline.
▪︎Datisi popping in every so often to say "can we please lynch scum ok thanks bye"

[Kilgamayan]

It did. But it still doesn’t make sense, and it definitely didn’t make sense pre-flip.

Sometimes people change their opinions over time, or they see other players that look worse and more worthy of a vote, I guess? This certainly happens to me, but maybe the ethos at this site is different?

Whatever the reason, though, it is bizarre that you would hold this stance and yet spend no time today asking Tuxedo Mask about why he moved off of Koba. If the dissolution of the Koba train still doesn't make sense, why not spend any time interrogating one of the people that was directly responsible for it? Even if you think Tuxedo is town, it seems like it would be worth getting that perspective, to help make some sense of the dissolution if nothing else.

[Kilgamayan]

Whatever. I read it. Lylo is not a really good reason to continue your read? What actually made it change?

I recalled at least a couple of people having townreads on Hoctac without engaging with any of the pushing I had done on the case (I have no particular post reference for this atm, but I can try to dig up something for you later if you really want), and it was so incredibly frustrating, but also perhaps indicative of the quality of the case, and between that and the overall collection of Hoctac's responses over the course of the day,

I started thinking "...maybe this really is just a stupid wordswordswords D1 case that isn't actually meaningful"

. The enomis case felt a lot more solid by comparison, since it was based primarily around (a lack of) voting reasons, so I decided to go with what I felt better about.

Emphasis added for clarity. The tl;dr is (a) people not buying the case (even if they were voting for Hoctac) and (b) Hoctac's responses to my points made me rethink it and realize it wasn't nearly as good as I thought it was.

[Kilgamayan]

I appreciate the forum functionality that warns me that I have ninja'd myself.

@Hoctac: My townread of N3R primarily comes from feeling good about their various questions because I could usually tell where they were coming from and I thought their underlying opinions were at least somewhat clear. I personally prefer proactive to reactive as a playstyle but understand/respect that loads of questioning works better for others as long as the questions go somewhere, and in N3R's case I don't feel like their questioning was particularly empty.

Their vote being on you all the way to deadline does look bad in a vacuum but I went back and double-checked and their last post of D1 (714) came when you were at 3 votes - tied with ceejay for the most at the time - and enomis had none. It's possible they intentionally lurked through the rest of D1 from there, but based on the time stamps I think it's more likely they had both simply gone to bed before things snowballed (see 702).

I have things I think can be said about the rest of what you've listed but that's N3R's job to address. I don't really agree with it as-is, but depending on how N3R defends against it, I could change my mind.

[PenguinPower]

Whatever the reason, though, it is bizarre that you would hold this stance and yet spend no time today asking Tuxedo Mask about why he moved off of Koba. If the dissolution of the Koba train still doesn't make sense, why not spend any time interrogating one of the people that was directly responsible for it? Even if you think Tuxedo is town, it seems like it would be worth getting that perspective, to help make some sense of the dissolution if nothing else.

It doesn't matter anymore because he flipped town so idrc.

[PenguinPower]

Still think it's Kilga/Hoctac so I will hammer either one of those two. If we're lynching me one of those two needs to be the hammer.

[Tuxedo Mask]

wtf is the logic in us + PP?
if this is literally Tux + PP then fuck me and call me Jingles lol

Just based on how things have shaken out I feel the teams must be Hocatac and Kilga or PP and you. You two have also consistently town read each other with minimal actual interaction. Also, I feel like you may be pocketing me, you keep grabbing quotes of mine and just saying "+1" or "tux is town" which just makes me nervous.

Lastly, there is this...

Spoiler:

hardclaim Night 3 Bulletproof

VOTE: clidd



-D

Isn't it a semi-common tell for scum to rvs their partners?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Still think it's Kilga/Hoctac so I will hammer either one of those two. If we're lynching me one of those two needs to be the hammer.

What do you think of Hoctac's argument that being confirmed non-bomb that they should carry out the hammer of any lynch today? Or do people prefer that the hammered should pick the hammerer?

[Hoctac]

▪︎Datisi popping in every so often to say "can we please lynch scum ok thanks bye"

I was mostly wrong about this fyi. I looked back and he made those posts while drunk.

[Hoctac]

Hmm, Penpow + Tuxey(?)

Maybe.

[Hoctac]

Like Tuxey, what are you trying to do to solve? In 1091, you're not reading into the implications of me suggesting that people should think that, and are instead asking Penpow like it'll help you solve his alignment. How will it?

Also, I find your solve to be a little simplistic. From your PoV, I could totally see Penpow + Hoctac. We've shaded each other but Penpow is pushing Kilga to be lynched, while I'm kinda all over the place and certainly haven't committed to Penpow being lynched.

[Hoctac]

I'm now leaning towards lynching Tuxey. Kilga, no one was engaging with you on your case, but the truth is that if Tuxey is scum, one of the other 3 is scum, 1 was me who didn't read it properly at the time (I know, my bad), and the other could just be apathetic town.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Like Tuxey, what are you trying to do to solve? In 1091, you're not reading into the implications of me suggesting that people should think that, and are instead asking Penpow like it'll help you solve his alignment. How will it?

Also, I find your solve to be a little simplistic. From your PoV, I could totally see Penpow + Hoctac. We've shaded each other but Penpow is pushing Kilga to be lynched, while I'm kinda all over the place and certainly haven't committed to Penpow being lynched.

My question was just more based on theory stuff. I'm just trying to gauge if people agree with your idea why and why not? I thought PP and Kilga lynching/hammering each other would be the best solve mechanically. But it seems I'm wrong, and that we just have to lynch scum today. So PP keeping the binary of them versus Kilga is interesting. Could be them being incorrect (in their willingness to die if town) or scum posturing like "I'm ready to be hammered, I'm so town."

You are all over the place, but it reads more like you're trying to save Kilga than anything. PP to PP/Roses to Roses/Me to Me/PP it just feels like your only concern is that Kilga doesn't die. So that's what I mean by the divide feels like Roses/PP versus Hoctac/Kilga, one side wants Kilga dead and the other wants Kilga to live. Right now I'm still for the person I find scummiest on their own, which is Kilga.

[Hoctac]

Well, I townread Kilga and can't find a partner for him due to how this day has played out. Like, he cased and vote you, Penpow and Roses both want him lynched, and now you're also pushing him. I guess bussing is a thing, but it didn't feel necessary?

[Hoctac]

Hoctac: Rose > Penpow > Kilga

Roses: Hoctac > Penpow > Kilga

Tux: Kilga > ??? > ??? > ???

Penpow: Roses > Hoctac/Kilga

This is also weird to look back at now.

[Hoctac]

Tux: Kilga > ??? > ??? > ???

I guess Kilga > Roses > Hoctac > and Penguin

I think if Tuxey is scum, this points towards Penpow being his scum partner as well. By putting Roses there after everyone else had stated preferences, he guarentees, Roses claims next, which means both scum are in the first two claims, which is pretty bad.