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Post Post #1100 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:37 pm

Post by Tuxedo Mask »

In post 1097, Hoctac wrote:Well, I townread Kilga and can't find a partner for him due to how this day has played out. Like, he cased and vote you, Penpow and Roses both want him lynched, and now you're also pushing him. I guess bussing is a thing, but it didn't feel necessary?
I understand that, but I'm not seeing scum PP or Roses. I also can't really rationalize them dropping their push on me with a townie mindset, especially the logic of town majority not being convinced of their case showing it may be flawed. Like that only works if Kilga is scum.
In post 1098, Hoctac wrote:
In post 878, Hoctac wrote:Hoctac: Rose > Penpow > Kilga

Roses: Hoctac > Penpow > Kilga

Tux: Kilga > ??? > ??? > ???
In post 879, Hoctac wrote:Penpow: Roses > Hoctac/Kilga
This is also weird to look back at now.
Can you explain what looks weird here?
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Post Post #1101 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:39 pm

Post by Tuxedo Mask »

In post 1100, Tuxedo Mask wrote: I understand that, but I'm not seeing scum PP or Roses. I also can't really rationalize them dropping their push on me with a townie mindset, especially the logic of town majority not being convinced of their case showing it may be flawed. Like that only works if Kilga is scum.
Oof that was poorly written, I mean I don't see them as scummy individually, but I see a logic to them being a team if that makes sense? The rest was about how I see Kilga as individually quite scummy.
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Post Post #1102 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:41 pm

Post by Hoctac »

Just the fact Roses and Penpow were cool with Kilga at the start of the day. Should look at who of the two of [Roses,Penpow] started pushing Kilga first, and who tagged along, since if Kilga is scum, his partner is most likely the person who was second in scumreading him. Since at that point, we have you + 1st person scumreading him, so scum buddy might feel like they have to bus.
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Post Post #1103 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:44 pm

Post by Tuxedo Mask »

In post 1102, Hoctac wrote:Just the fact Roses and Penpow were cool with Kilga at the start of the day. Should look at who of the two of [Roses,Penpow] started pushing Kilga first, and who tagged along, since if Kilga is scum, his partner is most likely the person who was second in scumreading him. Since at that point, we have you + 1st person scumreading him, so scum buddy might feel like they have to bus.
Sorry I'm not sure what you're getting at here? Are you just saying if Kilga flips scum we should look for a bus on the lynch and not the one person trying to stop it, you?
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Post Post #1104 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:54 pm

Post by Hoctac »

I'm solving from my perspective. Of course I'm gonna look for the busser (who is the 3rd person to push Kilga probably was my thinking). Do you want me to tell you that you guys should look at me if we lynch Kilga and he flips scum?
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Post Post #1105 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:57 pm

Post by Tuxedo Mask »

No, that's fair, I was just more caught off guard by the pivot. Cause now you seem very suddenly on a Kilga flip. Shouldn't you be trying to convince me that Roses or PP is scum if you don't want Kilga killed, or do you think Kilga might be scum now? Sorry, I just feel like I'm not keeping up with your train of thought.
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Post Post #1106 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:01 pm

Post by Hoctac »

Kilga is still my least preffered lynch, I'm not pivoting. I'm just considering stuff. Thing is, if Kilga is town, there's only 1 town in the other 3 of you, and that town is convinced Kilga is scum because I make sense as their partner, but the reason I think Kilga is town is because no one else makes sense as his partner. It's a weird cycle.
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Post Post #1107 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:01 pm

Post by Hoctac »

I guess thinking about teams is really stupid actually. I can't predict whether or not scum will bus. I should really just be trying to lynch the most scummy person individually speaking.
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Post Post #1108 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:02 pm

Post by Hoctac »

And currently I think that is you, Mr. Tuxey. But what do I know, eh?
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Post Post #1109 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:05 pm

Post by Hoctac »

I don't know!!!!@1

We have a day and 14 hours left...
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Post Post #1110 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:08 pm

Post by Tuxedo Mask »

Okay, so what do you think of Kilga on their own? As I've said them dropping a push from me saying town majority wasn't buying doesn't make sense from town to me. Also yes, I know they said they reevaluated the case on their own as well, but that doesn't stop the will of town being a reason they brought up and it making no sense.

Also, in general what are you reads of people as they stand on their own?
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Post Post #1111 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:15 pm

Post by Hoctac »

I agree with you on that; in fact, I was the first person to point that out. Individually speaking, I think Penpow is towny for play, but the DkKoba NK points towards him. I liked Kilga day 1 with his solving and case on me, and I liked how he entered today with his case on you, but since then, he's been less inspiring and feels more cautious/apologetic. You were cool on day 1, but your tone shifted a lot upon entering LyLo it feels like, and you haven't done much to try and solve people. Roses I think is kinda scummy by play, I still don't like their day 1, but I got 1 town ping from how Ico 180ed on me lol. Unsure if I should be giving that much stake.

If I had to rank them, then maybe:
Penpow
Kilga
Roses
Tuxey

But they're very jumbled and close together in my head. I'm sure of very little and that's very worrying.
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Post Post #1112 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:29 pm

Post by Kilgamayan »

In post 1100, Tuxedo Mask wrote:I'm not seeing scum PP
In post 1111, Hoctac wrote:Individually speaking, I think Penpow is towny for play
If'n y'all are going to say stuff like this then you could at least tell me why and are off the mark.
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Post Post #1113 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:34 pm

Post by Hoctac »

Oh yeah, the way Penpow was talking about the Bongle situation but being unnecessarily uncooperative in explaining DkKoba's misunderstanding was a little scummy.
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Post Post #1114 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:37 pm

Post by Hoctac »

I get your reasons, Kilga. I shouldn't have Penpow so high. I think I want to lynch Tuxey or Penpow now.
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Post Post #1115 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:41 pm

Post by Hoctac »

Kilga
Roses
Tuxey
Penpow

My reads are incredibly inconsistent. Don't @ me.
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Post Post #1116 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:47 pm

Post by Kilgamayan »

In post 1090, Tuxedo Mask wrote:You two have also consistently town read each other with minimal actual interaction.
This is also true of you and the clidd/PP slot fyi
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Post Post #1117 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:51 pm

Post by Tuxedo Mask »

In post 1112, Kilgamayan wrote:
In post 1100, Tuxedo Mask wrote:I'm not seeing scum PP
In post 1111, Hoctac wrote:Individually speaking, I think Penpow is towny for play
If'n y'all are going to say stuff like this then you could at least tell me why and are off the mark.
Because I don't think clipping those things out of context accurately represents the back and forth Kilga had with Koba. They were things that allegedly stuck out to PP on their read through, and he pushed that. Koba reacted, and the back and forth that followed seemed to be what strengthed PP's read of that slot.

What does scum PP have to gain joining the game hours before the deadline seeing the wagons are Hoctac and CJ/Enomis and picking a fight with Koba? Trying to fight the flow of the game seems way more town motivated than scum motivated. Even if Hocatac or CJ/Enomis were their partner, it would be easier to just support the opposing wagon over trying to start a whole new one.

As for the things you quoted regarding yourself they said they were pings. If it was the core of their read on you then it would be different, but it's just stuff that stuck out to them. Again this just feels like how PP engages with the game, pushing stuff that gut ping them and growing from there.
In post 1003, Kilgamayan wrote:That's a whole lot of bad accusations from where I'm sitting. What good arguments would you say PP has made that make you think PP is town, outside of the piggybacking on the efforts of others against me?
Could you show what you're talking about here?

P.S. your post would be easier to follow if you linked to why they were factually incorrect or explained it, rather than just linking to the incorrect post.
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Post Post #1118 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:53 pm

Post by Hoctac »

Sigh, good point.
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Post Post #1119 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:56 pm

Post by Hoctac »

Too many people are defending Penpow here. It mostly likely means he's town and getting TMIed by at least 1 scum. Since Roses and Tuxey both really like him.
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Post Post #1120 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:59 pm

Post by Hoctac »

Huh, Roses + Kilga? Okay, I'll stop now for tonight.
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Post Post #1121 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:01 pm

Post by Hoctac »

Anyway, reasoning for that is that Kilga/Tuxey are unaligned because of start of day case, and both scum whiteknighting Penpow would be really strange, so by that logic it's those 2. But again, I'm doing preflip solving when I should be going for the scummiest person, so please ignore me. I've never been so lost in a LyLo where I don't have any real scumreads. It's a frustrating feeling. Anyway, I'm out.
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Post Post #1122 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:30 pm

Post by Kilgamayan »

In post 1117, Tuxedo Mask wrote:
In post 1112, Kilgamayan wrote:
In post 1100, Tuxedo Mask wrote:I'm not seeing scum PP
In post 1111, Hoctac wrote:Individually speaking, I think Penpow is towny for play
If'n y'all are going to say stuff like this then you could at least tell me why and are off the mark.
Because I don't think clipping those things out of context accurately represents the back and forth Kilga had with Koba. They were things that allegedly stuck out to PP on their read through, and he pushed that. Koba reacted, and the back and forth that followed seemed to be what strengthed PP's read of that slot.

-snip-

As for the things you quoted regarding yourself they said they were pings. If it was the core of their read on you then it would be different, but it's just stuff that stuck out to them. Again this just feels like how PP engages with the game, pushing stuff that gut ping them and growing from there.
I get that they're things that "stuck out" to PP with Koba and myself. My point is that none of them were/are scummy things, but PP was/is presenting them as such anyway. I also still don't know what PP's core argument against me is despite pointing out once already that I didn't know what it was. N3R said something similar to this but didn't elaborate on what they think PP's core argument against me is. What would you say it is? Note that PP was demonstrably unhappy with me before ; I would like you, or PP, or N3R, to produce the reason for that pre-943 unhappiness that is something I didn't list in 1003.
In post 1117, Tuxedo Mask wrote:What does scum PP have to gain joining the game hours before the deadline seeing the wagons are Hoctac and CJ/Enomis and picking a fight with Koba? Trying to fight the flow of the game seems way more town motivated than scum motivated. Even if Hocatac or CJ/Enomis were their partner, it would be easier to just support the opposing wagon over trying to start a whole new one.
Starting a fight with someone that was not in meaningful danger of getting lynched avoids having to come up with a meaningful opinion of which of the two main vote-getters is worse, and in fact can possibly ultimately avoid having to vote for either of them. Like, if scum can get a townie lynched without voting for them, that's pretty good for them, since they don't have to answer for being wrong.
In post 1117, Tuxedo Mask wrote:
In post 1003, Kilgamayan wrote:That's a whole lot of bad accusations from where I'm sitting. What good arguments would you say PP has made that make you think PP is town, outside of the piggybacking on the efforts of others against me?
Could you show what you're talking about here?
I'm not sure exactly what the confusion is. If you can clarify that I'll be happy to oblige.
In post 1117, Tuxedo Mask wrote:P.S. your post would be easier to follow if you linked to why they were factually incorrect or explained it, rather than just linking to the incorrect post.
Sure.
In post 1003, Kilgamayan wrote:Justifying Hoctac/Kilga scum team feeling by citing Hoctac not tcaring about my lynch order: (factually incorrect)
Correction: My summary statement here should say "claim order" rather than "lynch order". (926 refers to "claim order" so hopefully it was still clear what I meant.)

Anyway, I posted my preferred claim order in , and Hoctac went on to try to administrate/organize claim orders in . Hoctac did not ask me for mine because mine was already posted. I mention this in 962 but I suppose it was not as clear and direct as this statement now.
In post 1003, Kilgamayan wrote:Justifying Hoctac/Kilga scum team feeling by citing ping from us being the last two claims: (factually incorrect)
Hoctac claims in , PP claimed in , I claimed in . Note that I point this out in .
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Post Post #1123 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:51 pm

Post by Night 3 Roses »

In post 1090, Tuxedo Mask wrote:
In post 1048, Night 3 Roses wrote:
wtf is the logic in us + PP?
if this is literally Tux + PP then fuck me and call me Jingles lol
Just based on how things have shaken out I feel the teams must be Hocatac and Kilga or PP and you. You two have also consistently town read each other with minimal actual interaction. Also, I feel like you may be pocketing me, you keep grabbing quotes of mine and just saying "+1" or "tux is town" which just makes me nervous.

Lastly, there is this...
Spoiler:
In post 7, Night 3 Roses wrote:hardclaim Night 3 Bulletproof

VOTE: clidd

Image

-D

Isn't it a semi-common tell for scum to rvs their partners?
I mean, -D explained where the townread came from. There didn't need to be much much interaction here.
Do you think our townread on you is unjustified? Do you feel like you shouldn't be townread?

Tho I fully understand LYLO-paranoia :lol:

Also are you actually serious with that half-shadey accusation on the RVS between Dats and Clidd? Because if you are, you should probably check out their history in games together...
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Post Post #1124 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:53 pm

Post by Night 3 Roses »

In post 1094, Hoctac wrote:Like Tuxey, what are you trying to do to solve? In , you're not reading into the implications of me suggesting that people should think that, and are instead asking Penpow like it'll help you solve his alignment. How will it?

Also, I find your solve to be a little simplistic. From your PoV, I could totally see Penpow + Hoctac. We've shaded each other but Penpow is pushing Kilga to be lynched, while I'm kinda all over the place and certainly haven't committed to Penpow being lynched.
Calling out others on not solving while you are 'solving' by combining literally every single possible team out there. And when pressed, you just say 'i'm not sure about any scumread'.

Nice :lol:
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