Farkran's mini normal review, June 2020

[gobbledygook]

Backup rolecop limits the fakeclaiming of the real role cop. Couldn’t fakeclaim vanilla cop or Neapolitan.

[Farkran]

Backup rolecop limits the fakeclaiming of the real role cop. Couldn’t fakeclaim vanilla cop or Neapolitan.

While we wait for NSG's input, may i ask why do you think that the backup limits the real rolecop fakeclaim options?

[gobbledygook]

Backup rolecop limits the fakeclaiming of the real role cop. Couldn’t fakeclaim vanilla cop or Neapolitan.

While we wait for NSG's input, may i ask why do you think that the backup limits the real rolecop fakeclaim options?

If the backup flips before the rolecop, why include a backup role that can never be activated with a Neapolitan or Vanilla Cop? It would mean a rolecop exists.

[Farkran]

Why wouldn't a Town Neapolitan exist if there is a Mafia Rolecop?

If the backup flips first, town can assume there is a scum Rolecop, but this does not imply that there cannot be a town neapolitan... no?

[gobbledygook]

Why wouldn't a Town Neapolitan exist if there is a Mafia Rolecop?

If the backup flips first, town can assume there is a scum Rolecop, but this does not imply that there cannot be a town neapolitan... no?

Correct but when no one else claims rolecop it points to the Neapolitan.
It’s just a minor point, but I thought it contradicted one of your goals for the setup. I don’t think it’s inclusion really messes anything up.

[northsidegal]

Voting - Votes must be in the format VOTE: Farkran, which is used as VOTE: Farkran[/ vote]. Please use bolded text to communicate with the mod in the game thread, not for voting. If i notice a bolded vote, i will not count it but the user will be informed that it does not count as a vote. There is a chance that i do not notice it though, please exercise caution with your voting. If you need to UNVOTE: , you can use the UNVOTE: [/ unvote] tags.

I suggest not having the rule that bolded votes don't count, it allows for really stupid gambits in LyLo for anyone who pays attention to the rules.

[northsidegal]

e.g. p1 and p2 are crossvoting, p3 posts a bolded vote on p1, p2 says "LOL YOU GUYS ARE SO BAD I WAS OBVIOUSLY SCUM", p3 reveals that bolded votes don't count and then really votes p2

sort of just a situation that shouldn't happen, can ruin everything that happened beforehand in a game

[northsidegal]

your mafia multitasking FV role PM says "town cop" in the area header

your loud JK role PM says "town doctor" in the area header, and i also don't think that the newbie-game style roleblock precedence is normal (

@implo?

)

the simple loyal neighborizer is worded in a way that i'm not really a fan of. you say "If this player is a Vanilla Townie and has the same alignment that you have..." which is true (the action will fail on Vanilla Mafia Goons), but i would prefer that it convey simple and loyal in a more separate manner. so i would prefer it just say "If this player is Vanilla and has the same alignment that you have..."

okay looks like all of that stuff already got noticed by implo, wow what a listmod am i right? anyways i think 24 might actually be a bit worse because it's sort of too much information in my opinion for a role PM. like it is literally true that it only works on vanilla townies but that shouldn't be something you spell out in the role PM. see here for a sort of similar discussion

[northsidegal]

so wrt to the bulletproof discussion, here's what i was getting at – bulletproof roles aren't informed of when they're shot. in a setup with both a jailkeeper and a bulletproof, this fact serves as a point against town, because it introduces doubt as to whether or not the jailkeeper truly blocked a kill or not – it's possible that the jailkeeper blocked a townie and scum shot the BP (in which case lynching the JK's target is bad), or it's possible that the jailkeeper blocked scum but people

think

the BP was shot (in which case scum getting away is bad).

that being said

[northsidegal]

wow that has literally never happened to me before my i somehow mashed a combination of buttons on my keyboard and submitted a post before it was done. i swear to god that the timing was unintentional of when i submitted it

anyways for REAL that being said the addition of the backup rolecop probably means that town don't really need that balancing uncertainty factor against them so yeah the activated bulletproof is probably fine

[northsidegal]

your mafia multitasking FV role PM says "town cop" in the area header

your loud JK role PM says "town doctor" in the area header

gobble i don't mean to chide but just going forward you gotta catch this stuff

[Farkran]

Wrt bolded votes: i will not enforce it in my first mod experience - i'll discourage bolded votes but still count them until people are more accustomed to my modding rules, probably years in the future. Rules will be reworded to reflect this change.

Wrt wrong names in the rolepms: i clearly copied them from an existing list and forgot to fix two. Will fix them asap.

Wrt the simple loyal neighborizer: how do you suggest i word it then? The alternative would be

"[...]if your target is the vanilla version of his alignent, and if he is the same alignment as you, you will [...]"

. Do you believe this is less obvious to the player? Do you have a different suggestion? I will trust your judgement and fix the rolepm accordingly.

I will repost rules and pms as soon as i get to a desktop

[Farkran]

Pending further instructions about action resolution

[Farkran]

Also wrt the gunsmith role included in your post: i get the point - while the role description implies exactly what would happen, it is then explicitly said that a player without a gun can only be town and nothing else.

I agree that it sounds a bit too straightforward. However, it is so because it includes an unnecessary line to give an advice about your role, whereas i just need a way to word the rules for it, if it makes any difference.

That being said, wouldn't at least 9 players out of 10 ask me "hey mod, does this line mean that my ability only works on Vanilla Townies?"

In which case, what should i reply?

[Farkran]

RULES

Borrowed and re-adjusted from Plotinus original ruleset.

• Follow all site rules.
  
  
• Mod color
  – My mod color is 000080. This is my favorite color and i ask you to not use it. If this is difficult to read, please let me know and will use a different shade.
  
• Behavior
  - Don’t be a dick. This is a heated game but toxicity will not be tolerated. Attack the play not the player. If your fellow players tell you to stop, you must stop. If you do not stop, I will tell you to stop. If you still do not stop, you will be force-replaced. Asking people to stop voting you or to stop scumhunting you entirely doesn't count for this rule and you may find yourself lynched if you try it.
  
• Don't talk about ongoing games
  - You may not talk to each other about this game outside of threads I have created for this purpose. You may not talk about other ongoing games in this thread. Guidelines about what is acceptable and what is not can be found here.
  
• Animated GIFs
  - are of the devil, but they are permitted behind spoilers if clearly labelled as such.
  
• Tiny text
  - is also of the devil, keep it 70+ please.
  
• Provable randomness
  - is against the rules. Saying that you rolled a dice is fine, using dice tags or random.org is not.
  
• Claiming scum
  - by yourself is fine. Claiming scum with another player is against the rules.
  
• Cryptography
  - is forbidden. Breadcrumbing is okay.
  
• Confirmation
  - You have 72 hours to confirm your role and your alignment, starting from the minute you received your role PM. Game will start sooner if at least 12 players confirms. Posting in a private topic counts as confirmation.
  
• Days
  - Day lasts 10 IRL days. Extensions may be granted if there are replacements or special circumstances at mod's discretion.
  
• Activity
  - You must post at least once every 48 hours or I will Prod you. You then have 24 hours to post in the game thread or I will replace you. A player who incurs into his 3rd Prod will be subject to replacement with no further notice. If you come back before I find a replacement, you can stay. Players can request me to Prod somebody early - exercise this right with caution. This will only count as an official prod if you don't post before you would have been due for a prod. If you haven't posted in the 24 hours before the thread is locked for night, you must reply to the night start PM or you will be replaced during the night.
  
• Vacation/Limited Access
  - If you need to be absent for longer than the Activity rules allow, you should declare V/LA in bold in the thread like this:
  @Mod: I will be v/la until Thursday
  . While you are V/LA, you will receive Prods once every 96 hours starting from your last post in this game. If you have not posted game advancing content in 6 days, regardless of V/LA status, you will be replaced.
  
• Prodging
  - A naked "prod dodge" does not reset the prod timer. To avoid being prodded/replaced for inactivity, include some game advancing content in your prodges, such as "got prodded; xxxx is still scum."
  
• Quoting
  - You may not quote (or copy paste) any private information into the thread, including your role PM and any mod communication.
  
• Voting
  - Votes must be in the format VOTE: Farkran, which is used as VOTE: Farkran[/ vote]. Please use
  bolded
  text to communicate with the mod in the game thread, not for voting. I will still count
  bolded
  votes, however there is a chance that i do not notice them while skimming for VCs, please exercise caution with your voting. If you need to UNVOTE: , you can use the UNVOTE: [/ unvote] tags.
  
• Lynching
  - Days end early when a simple majority of players (50% of living players + 1 rounded down) vote to lynch somebody. If a majority is not reached at deadline or if a majority of the players vote for no lynch, the day will end without a lynch. At evens, 50% is sufficient for no lynch.
  
• Twilight
  - Begins when a majority is reached and lasts until I lock the thread. You're still alive until I flip you so you can talk in any game threads you have access to until then, but no votes or unvotes will be counted.
  
• Night
  - Night lasts at least 48 hours. The night phase can be shortened if every living player -- even those with no night actions -- agrees to it by sending a PM to me stating that you want to have a
  Fast Night
  .
  
• Daytalk
  - All Private Topics for this game always have Daytalk.
  
• Action submissions
  - You may submit actions via PM (if town) or PT (if scum). If the actions are not submitted by the deadline then you do nothing. You can change your mind as many times as you like before the deadline.
  
• Action resolution
  - All actions use Natural Action Resolution.
  
• Notes PT
  - Let me know if you want a private thread to store your thoughts and feedback for the other players. This thread will be made public immediately after the game. You may draft posts in your notes PT but you may not talk about your notes PT in public. You definitely may not use the notes PT to demonstrate that you've had a town mindset in private all along; just put your town mindset in public to begin with and keep your notes to yourself.
  
• Play to win
  - this particular game, not some future one, and keep it fun!

---

---

Spoiler: Role PMs

Mafia Odd-Night Rolecop

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Odd-Night Rolecop

. Your teammates are [redacted name], the [redacted role] and [redacted name], the [redacted role]. Your Scum PT is [redacted URL].

You may target one player per odd-numbered night phase (i.e. Night 1, Night 3, Night 5, etc). At the end of the night phase, you will be informed of their role but not their alignment.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is ]here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Mafia Multitasking Compulsive Fruit Vendor

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Multitasking Compulsive Fruit Vendor

. Your teammates are [redacted name], the [redacted role] and [redacted name], the [redacted role]. Your Scum PT is [redacted URL].

You

must

target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, your target will be informed that they received a fruit (but not who sent it).

Since your Fruit Vendor action is

Compulsive

, note that the following Normal Guidelines are in effect:

A compulsive role, when they confirm, must include an ordered list of all players in the game. If they ever fail to submit an action, their action must be resolved as targeting the first player on that list that is still alive. They are allowed to change the order of the list at any time, e.g. if they think they might accidentally fail to submit a night action. This is done to ensure that compulsive roles can have an action chosen non-randomly for them in the event that they fail to submit.

Since you are

Multitasking

, you may perform all your night actions simultaneously, including the factional kill.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is ]here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Mafia Backup Odd-Night Rolecop

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Backup Odd-Night Rolecop

. Your teammates are [redacted name], the [redacted role] and [redacted name], the [redacted role]. Your Scum PT is [redacted URL].

You have no active abilities now, but you will gain the Odd-Night Rolecop abilities in the event that a Rolecop dies. If this happens, your ability will read as following:

You may target one player per odd-numbered night phase (i.e. Night 1, Night 3, Night 5, etc). At the end of the night phase, you will be informed of their role but not their alignment.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is ]here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Town Tracker

Welcome!

You are a

Town Tracker

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed what player or players they targeted with their action, if any. If your action fails for any reason (i.e. roleblock, etc), you will receive a

No Result

result. Note that this is different than a

The player did not visit anyone

result.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is ]here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Loud Jailkeeper

Welcome!

You are a

Town Loud Jailkeeper

.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from all kills during that night phase, but will also be unable to take any action during that night. You cannot target yourself. In case of conflict, common roleblocks take precedence over jailkeeping, and scum roleblocks take precedence over town roleblocks.

Since you are

Loud

, the target of your night action will be informed that you targeted them, but they will not know what action you have taken.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is ]here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town 1-shot Simple Loyal Neighborizer

Welcome!

You are a

Town 1-shot Simple Loyal Neighborizer

.

Once per game

, at night, you may target one player. If this player

is a Vanilla Townie

, you and them will be able to communicate in a Private Topic for the rest of the game, at any time while you are alive.

One shot will be consumed

if you decide to use your ability, whether the action succeeds or fails for any reason.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is ]here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town 2-shot Activated Bulletproof

Welcome!

You are a

Town 2-shot Activated Bulletproof

.

Twice per game

, at night, you may Activate your Bulletproof ability. If you do so, you will be protected from all kills during that night phase.

One shot will be consumed

if you decide to use your ability, even if you are blocked or if you are not targeted for a kill.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is ]here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town 1-shot Bulletproof

Welcome!

You are a

Town 1-shot Bulletproof

.

You are automatically protected from the

first

kill that targets you. This effect takes precedence over any other kind of protective ability, so it will be consumed as soon as you are targeted for a kill.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is ]here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Vanilla Townie

Welcome!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no special abilities.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is ]here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Spoiler: Simple Loyal Neighborizer alternative

Town 1-shot Simple Loyal Neighborizer

Welcome!

You are a

Town 1-shot Simple Loyal Neighborizer

.

Once per game

, at night, you may target one player. If this player is

Vanilla

and has

the same alignment that you have

, you and them will be able to communicate in a Private Topic for the rest of the game, at any time while you are alive.

One shot will be consumed

if you decide to use your ability, whether the action succeeds or fails for any reason.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is ]here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

[northsidegal]

That being said, wouldn't at least 9 players out of 10 ask me "hey mod, does this line mean that my ability only works on Vanilla Townies?"

In which case, what should i reply?

You just say yes.

If it's asked privately that is. Generally questions asked publicly like that I only answer if worded in a neutral way ("would a loyal simple neighborizer only work on VTs") and don't answer if it's like "does my role only work on VTs"

[Farkran]

I'll throw in a sample starting post and a sample vote count, which will become useful for me later and you may want to review these as well

---

Mini normal 9999

Moderated and designed by Farkran
Reviewed by Northsidegal & gobbledygook

There is no backup mod

Player List:

1. Farkran
   
2. Northsidegal
   
3. gobbledygook
   
4. implosion
   
5. Player 5
   
6. Player 6
   
7. Player 7
   
8. Player 8
   
9. Player 9
   
10. Player 10
    
11. Player 11
    
12. Player 12
    
13. Player 13

Spoiler: Alive

• Farkran
  
• Northsidegal
  
• gobbledygook
  
• implosion
  
• Player 5
  
• Player 6
  
• Player 7
  
• Player 8
  
• Player 9
  
• Player 10
  
• Player 11
  
• Player 12
  
• Player 13

Spoiler: Dead

• None yet

Events:

Day 1 Start

---

Day 1 begins!

Vote Count 1.00

With 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

Farkran (2):

Northsidegal, gobbledygook

Northsidegal (1):

implosion

gobbledygook (0):

implosion (0):

Player 5 (0):

Player 6 (0):

Player 7 (0):

Player 8 (0):

Player 9 (0):

Player 10 (0):

Player 11 (0):

Player 12 (0):

Player 13 (0):

Not Voting

(10): Farkran, Player 5, Player 6, Player 7, Player 8, Player 9, Player 10, Player 11, Player 12, Player 13

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-06-21 21:00:00).

Mod notes:

-

[Farkran]

Also after thinking about it, i don't need to resolve a conflict between town and scum roleblockers, and the jailkeeper vs roleblocker is already listed in the NAR, so that line in the jailkeeper PM may as well be removed.

Spoiler: new Town Loud Jailkeeper rolePM

Town Loud Jailkeeper

Welcome!

You are a

Town Loud Jailkeeper

.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from all kills during that night phase, but will also be unable to take any action during that night. You cannot target yourself.

Since you are

Loud

, the target of your night action will be informed that you targeted them, but they will not know what action you have taken.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is ]here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

[northsidegal]

Wrt the simple loyal neighborizer: how do you suggest i word it then? The alternative would be "[...]if your target is the vanilla version of his alignent, and if he is the same alignment as you, you will [...]". Do you believe this is less obvious to the player? Do you have a different suggestion? I will trust your judgement and fix the rolepm accordingly.

i would do it sort of similarly to how you do that loud jailkeeper role pm. i've always been a fan of separating roles with multiple modifiers into multiple lines, each that clearly delineates the effect of the modifier. so going off that jailkeeper role PM, something like:

"once only at night you may target a player to add them to a neighborhood.

since you are loyal, your action will only succeed on targets sharing your alignment.

since you are simple, your action will only succeed on targets that are vanilla."


something like that, obviously the specifics of how you word it are up to you but that's my personal recommendation

[Farkran]

Spoiler: 1-shot Simple Loyal Neighborizer (v4)

Town 1-shot Simple Loyal Neighborizer

Welcome!

You are a

Town 1-shot Simple Loyal Neighborizer

.

Once per game

, at night, you may target one player. You and them will be able to communicate in a Private Topic for the rest of the game, at any time while you are alive.

Since you are

Simple

, your action will only have effect if the target is Vanilla.

Since you are

Loyal

, your action will only have effect if the target shares your alignment.

One shot will be consumed

if you decide to use your ability, whether the action succeeds or fails for any reason.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is ]here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

I'm posting updates and fixes as soon as i read your feedback. Let me know if you need additional material, changes or alternatives to already existing stuff, or when everything is sorted out.

I am currently happy with the 3rd version of the setup, that includes a scum backup rolecop and a 2-shot activated bulletproof town.

[implosion]

your loud JK role PM says "town doctor" in the area header, and i also don't think that the newbie-game style roleblock precedence is normal (@implo?)

Since it's resolved doesn't really matter, but my answer is basically "uh yeah, i guess not" but it's the kind of thing where if reviewers allow it i wouldn't care all that much since action resolution minutiae always have the chance to become ambiguous under a strict reading of the rules.

[northsidegal]

i guess it's just one of those disgusting things like multiple bodyguards that we just agree is forbidden by punishment of death


but yeah pretty much i think all of that looks good? i think this setup probably leans scumsided but not so much that i wouldn't pass it and given last year / this year's mini normal meta it's probably fine anyways

don't think i have anything left to say

/pass

[implosion]

I put multiple bodyguards in the first normal setup i ever ran...

[implosion]

and now i'm the czar

[northsidegal]

well you know what they say