Micro 948: Noughts and Crosses Blitz [Game over!]

[Celeste]

Hmhm. Blair is correct and she is growing on me. Like a fungus.

[Clover Ebi]

They say the best way to stop disasters is to prevent it from happening in the first place. I think clarifying why posting the chart is NAI so people won't push Blair for it is a good starting point. We can leave RVS at any time. At least, I think so...

[T-Bone]

I think a better question to discuss would be how much should we let the game influence our choice making? Like if you scumread someone in a less optimal sqaure would you go for someone else you're less sure on if they had a better square for us to lynch? Or should you play this like normal mafia.

Speaking as someone who was scum the last time I played this set-up, I used the town's over-reliance on the board to manipulate it away from me for the win. I had a corner square, so I forced the lynch on my opposite corner to ensure they had to take me to LyLo.

[Blair]

Town lynching opposite corners provides multiple paths to victory, though. It's actually the preferred opener. *brandishes chart*

Are you sure that town was over-relying on the board?

[T-Bone]

Uhhhh...maybe look at your chart again? Lynching opposite corners is the worst thing for tic-tac-toe lol

[T-Bone]

Specifically for mafia tic-tac-toe. We basically want to control the lynch and the night kill, not give the mafia agency over where the board goes.

[Dunnstral]

In my experience, Dunnstral is always scum.

I quickhammered in the queue

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I've played this setup before, I think. I can't actually find the game, maybe I was on an alt before. Also, I don't remember what happened, but i think there was talk about lynching the ic and we never lynched the ic.

[Dunnstral]

It is correct to lynch a corner, I believe

[Blair]

Uhhhh...maybe look at your chart again? Lynching opposite corners is the worst thing for tic-tac-toe lol

Here are all the possible outcomes for town taking opposite corners:


There was no reason for town to avoid lynching you Day 2.

[Blair]

Or are you saying because there aren't enough phases? I'll admit I hadn't considered that. I'll have to reevaluate.

[T-Bone]

The fun thing about this set-up is that you use the first three moves (lynch, scumkill, and 2nd lynch) to set-up (for the most part) which three players are going to LyLo. (You also hope you lynch one scum before that point). Like, neither town or scum is going to win with 3 in a row without some shenanigans (like unlucky board placement). The goal is to not to try to win tic-tac-toe. Remember, each side only gets 3 moves before LyLo. No one gets all 5 moves necessary to win.

[Blair]

That's fair.

We want to make sure we're lynching in a way that protects our agency, though. From Night 2 onward either town or scum may be "on their heels" with forced lynches or kills just to avoid the board resolving the game. We will want to make sure we are always the ones with options, not them.

[T-Bone]

Yes, that was what I was trying to get across. Optimal tic-tac-toe and optimal mafia-tac-toe are not the same strats.

[Blair]

If both sides play optimally, however, neither side wins the board - which is the only thing we really care about wrt the board.

[T-Bone]

Now I have to ask myself...did you know, or did you not know? (rhetorical for Blair, something to consider for everyone else)

[Blair]

Light town reads on Clover and T-Bone for helping clarify the mechanics and my role in presenting them - there is no scum motive for either of them to jump in there (other than the usual WIFOM-y "to earn town points" overhyped disclaimer).

[Kanna]

you guys sure are fast at confirming

hello hello!

[Kanna]

tbh i came in thinking we were just going to play optimal noughts and crosses, but there's some good points being raised. is the best way to find mafia and "not lose" at noughts and crosses then?

[T-Bone]

Vote: Dunnstral

[Dunnstral]

Vote: Dunnstral

My lynch would certainly be convenient for you

[Kanna]

I think lynching a corner is still optimal though

Vote: Dunnstral

why this?

[Kanna]

p.s: I am very sad I am not innocent child </3

[Blair]

I think lynching a corner is still optimal though

Vote: Dunnstral

why this?

You answered your own question?

[GuiltyLion]

hey everyone!

So I actually played in a run of this setup before (the one Dunn was in, as well as our glorious mod Umlaut), where scum didn't kill the IC n1. Here's the game:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=68044

They still managed to win because we still hadn't flipped scum by 5p so we couldn't just win the tic tac toe game outright without losing to mafia majority if we lynched wrong. We hit scum in 5p but then lost in LYLO and I'm still a bit salty about it, hence why I jumped at the chance to play this again!

I agree we should lynch in the corners today

[GuiltyLion]

tbh i came in thinking we were just going to play optimal noughts and crosses, but there's some good points being raised. is the best way to find mafia and "not lose" at noughts and crosses then?

Kanna, which posts/points specifically changed your view? I'm a bit suspicious that you speak about these 'good points' vaguely as opposed to directly