Micro 948: Noughts and Crosses Blitz [Game over!]

[Blair]

They still managed to win because we still hadn't flipped scum by 5p so we couldn't just win the tic tac toe game outright without losing to mafia majority if we lynched wrong

I thought the game board trumped the town:scum ratio in case of conflict - am I misunderstanding or is the setup different this time?

[GuiltyLion]

I think realistically this isn't something we can really push and if Blair is scum this isn't gonna be the selling point.

this phrasing also pinged me, because it sounds like Clover Ebi is thinking more about what is acceptable to push/sell instead of what may be indicative of alignment

[Blair]

If two win conditions occur at once, the game board will take precedence. E.g., Town wins by placing a third cross in a row even if they lose majority by doing so.

[Dunnstral]

hey everyone!

So I actually played in a run of this setup before (the one Dunn was in, as well as our glorious mod Umlaut), where scum didn't kill the IC n1. Here's the game:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=68044

They still managed to win because we still hadn't flipped scum by 5p so we couldn't just win the tic tac toe game outright without losing to mafia majority if we lynched wrong. We hit scum in 5p but then lost in LYLO and I'm still a bit salty about it, hence why I jumped at the chance to play this again!

I agree we should lynch in the corners today

Scum lynched me day 1 when I was in the corner and they were in the exact position on the board as t-bone, and they won

Just saying.

[GuiltyLion]

Blair - see the game at this point:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 9#p8280539

Here, we have 5 alive, including the IC. The optimal tictactoe Lynch would have been Lane, forcing a win next move by lynching either McMenno or Javajoe, but this would have lost because Lane was town

[Blair]

Ah, I see. I thought you meant you had a winning move available that phase but couldn't take it.

[GuiltyLion]

yeah, that was unclear, sorry.

I think Dunnstral's indignance here is loosely townie

[Kanna]

You answered your own question?

there's 4 corners though. i got the impression there was a reasoning to the vote

@Guiltylion; (do you remember me, maybe?) it was mostly these

The goal is to not to try to win tic-tac-toe.

Yes, that was what I was trying to get across. Optimal tic-tac-toe and optimal mafia-tac-toe are not the same strats.

p-edit: too many

[Umlaut]

Vote Count 1.1

maxwell ​	Clover Ebi ​	GuiltyLion ​
T-Bone ​	Celeste ​	Blair ​
Rozyroz ​	Kanna ​	Dunnstral ​

Dunnstral

(2): Blair, T-Bone

T-bone

(1): Clover Ebi

Clover Ebi

(1): Celeste

Not Voting

(6): GuiltyLion, T-Bone, Rozyroz, maxwell, Kanna, Dunnstral

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-06-16 00:50:00)

[GuiltyLion]

as of this post, Maxwell AND rozyroz were both last seen online at 6:09 pm PST (my time), which was after day start at 5:50 PST, yet neither posted in the thread.

it's a little weird that they were both last online at literally the same minute, I'm wondering if that has to do with how the forum checks for activity, but regardless, both can be charged with seeing their day start PM and electing not to post in the thread! I find this suspicious!

VOTE: maxwell

[GuiltyLion]

@Guiltylion; (do you remember me, maybe?) it was mostly these

Yes, I do remember you, glad to see you again!

And I think I understand your point about how those posts changed your view, thank you for the clarification

[Blair]

Scum lynched me day 1 when I was in the corner and they were in the exact position on the board as t-bone, and they won

Just saying.

The same position relative to you? Because you are not in the same corner in this game.

UNVOTE: Dunnstral
VOTE: Maxwell

[Dunnstral]

as of this post, Maxwell AND rozyroz were both last seen online at 6:09 pm PST (my time), which was after day start at 5:50 PST, yet neither posted in the thread.

...This should teach you two to use 'hide my online status' from now on, regardless of alignment

Scum lynched me day 1 when I was in the corner and they were in the exact position on the board as t-bone, and they won

Just saying.

The same position relative to you? Because you are not in the same corner in this game.

UNVOTE: Dunnstral
VOTE: Maxwell

Yes, I was bottom left, scum was right middle. This game I'm bottom right, T-bone is left middle

[Kanna]

Yes, I do remember you, glad to see you again!

And I think I understand your point about how those posts changed your view, thank you for the clarification

!!! I'm so happy!

You were my first SE, I believe! It's really nice to see you again <3

[GuiltyLion]

anyway I'm gonna play some Rocket League now but I'll check thread occasionally tonight and do more stuff later, remember y'all it's a Blitz so we owe it to each other to be a bit more present/vocal about availability compared to the usual 10-14 day deadlines

[Clover Ebi]

Thank goodness I have a real scumread now, I was worried with all these slight townreads I was getting awkwardly shuffling on my feet on what to do.

Spoiler:

tbh i came in thinking we were just going to play optimal noughts and crosses, but there's some good points being raised. is the best way to find mafia and "not lose" at noughts and crosses then?

Kanna, which posts/points specifically changed your view? I'm a bit suspicious that you speak about these 'good points' vaguely as opposed to directly

I think realistically this isn't something we can really push and if Blair is scum this isn't gonna be the selling point.

this phrasing also pinged me, because it sounds like Clover Ebi is thinking more about what is acceptable to push/sell instead of what may be indicative of alignment

as of this post, Maxwell AND rozyroz were both last seen online at 6:09 pm PST (my time), which was after day start at 5:50 PST, yet neither posted in the thread.

it's a little weird that they were both last online at literally the same minute, I'm wondering if that has to do with how the forum checks for activity, but regardless, both can be charged with seeing their day start PM and electing not to post in the thread! I find this suspicious!

VOTE: maxwell

I feel like these posts by Guilty don't feel like genuine attempts to find scum. It feels like he's nitpicking and trying to find reasons to scumread people. Heck, the last post you can't really even defend against. Really the only post here I can somewhat nod at is the one against myself. Kanna and Max/Roz just feels off to me. Dunnstrals reaction to T-bone rubbed me the wrong way as well, but maybe I just don't like how defensive it was.

[Clover Ebi]

Oh I should VOTE: GuiltyLion

[Kanna]

VOTE: GuiltyLion
I kind of agree. @Guilty; if you pointed out so many things, why did you default to voting for 2 people who haven't shown up?

[Kanna]

Also i dislike the activity tell just because i hate it when it's used against me. I'm not sure if it's AI either

[GuiltyLion]

I feel like these posts by Guilty don't feel like genuine attempts to find scum. It feels like he's nitpicking and trying to find reasons to scumread people.

Why do you feel like they're not genuine? I fully agree they are nitpicky, but it is early game. Finding reasons to scumread people is exactly what town should be doing!

Heck, the last post you can't really even defend against. Really the only post here I can somewhat nod at is the one against myself. Kanna and Max/Roz just feels off to me. Dunnstrals reaction to T-bone rubbed me the wrong way as well, but maybe I just don't like how defensive it was.

The "somewhat nod at is the one against myself" feels hilariously self-conscious scum. If you're town you should not find any reasoning against you to be good! Believable maybe, but why would you agree that your own posting is suspicious, instead of trying to correct me for why it is not?

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: GuiltyLion
I kind of agree. @Guilty; if you pointed out so many things, why did you default to voting for 2 people who haven't shown up?

because we are lynching in a corner today, and I find Dunnstral to be townie

Also i dislike the activity tell just because i hate it when it's used against me. I'm not sure if it's AI either

Do you think town or scum is more likely to see that the day has started, after confirming pretty quickly after role PMs have been sent out, and then not post anything at all?

I do not think it is likely that both are scum, so obviously it is possible that town would do the same, but I think it is a good place to start!

[GuiltyLion]

It feels like he's nitpicking and trying to find reasons to scumread people

on this, I would also point you to see how I did not escalate or push further once Kanna gave me satisfying explanation! I think she is more likely town than scum after our exchange

[GuiltyLion]

Dunnstrals reaction to T-bone rubbed me the wrong way as well, but maybe I just don't like how defensive it was.

I also do not like this hedge! Do you see yourself voting Dunnstral today or not? Take a stand sir, this feels like giving yourself room to vote there later!

[Blair]

Scum lynched me day 1 when I was in the corner and they were in the exact position on the board as t-bone, and they won

Yes, I was bottom left, scum was right middle. This game I'm bottom right, T-bone is left middle

This degree of "once bitten, twice shy" paranoia from Dunnstral is difficult to imitate and more often comes from town than scum.

I think realistically this isn't something we can really push and if Blair is scum this isn't gonna be the selling point.

this phrasing also pinged me, because it sounds like Clover Ebi is thinking more about what is acceptable to push/sell instead of what may be indicative of alignment

Dunnstrals reaction to T-bone rubbed me the wrong way as well, but maybe I just don't like how defensive it was.

I also do not like this hedge! Do you see yourself voting Dunnstral today or not? Take a stand sir, this feels like giving yourself room to vote there later!

The "somewhat nod at is the one against myself" feels hilariously self-conscious scum. If you're town you should not find any reasoning against you to be good! Believable maybe, but why would you agree that your own posting is suspicious, instead of trying to correct me for why it is not?

There's something off-putting about how many times you've shaded Clover while voting for someone (and pushing the closest thing to an RVS case against them!) who hasn't entered the thread yet.

Is it because Maxwell is in the corner and Clover isn't? Because you're ostensibly scumreading Clover hard enough to solicit a vote but you're withholding it for reasons that aren't clear to me.

[GuiltyLion]

Is it because Maxwell is in the corner and Clover isn't? Because you're ostensibly scumreading Clover hard enough to solicit a vote but you're withholding it for reasons that aren't clear to me.

yes, this is exactly it