Mini Normal 2148 (Post Game)

[Battle Mage]

So we moved from video game debate to vernacular debate

don't get medical with me!

[Battle Mage]

I am currently a few pages into reading, but would like to make a request. @HK50, I love your posting style -- so nothing against it -- but could you possibly use less sophisticated words to get your points across? I can understand what you are saying if I really spend time looking into your every post, but it is very hard to read some of your posts on the surface.

Another reason I ask this is because using a ton of more complicated words makes it more difficult than normal to read your intentions. This posting style could be extremely effective for scum to hide behind, because it is an easy way for them to blanket their intentions, because a lot more effort is needed than typical to truly assess their motives.

And if you are town, then it should make sense why this could become an issue. Because if people are having to spend too much time looking at a townplayer's posts to unpack their motives, it takes away from their focus of scumhunting, which absolutely could lead us down the wrong path in the long run.

I completely agree with this, his posts are pretty unreadable for me too because of the format. But I also think it's a very conspicuous posting style and a lot of effort for scum to keep up with minimal value, so slight townlean. Like, if scum, why bother?

I can understand why you might gather a townlean from it, but at least for me I cannot say that it gives me any direction on his alignment. If someone reads a lot, using more difficult words can come naturally to them. In fact, I have played a game where I used a lot more sophisticated words than usual as mafia before, so knowing that I have done it as scum and it took very little effort for me means that I must be cautious if I see someone else doing it.

In the game where I was scum, I can cite some of the words that I used in one single analysis post during that game: exasperation, unfounded, prognostication, aforementioned, reinforces, ulterior, disconcerted, reiterating, conducive, bolsters, precedence.

There were more words, but you probably should get my point by now that if someone knows a lot of words, it could take very little effort to use more complicated words regardless of alignment. Town naturally should have more of a motive to make things easy-to-read for their fellow town members, so they should avoid using a bunch of difficult words.

That's interesting, and I definitely sympathise with it. The only area I seem to have any success scumhunting at the moment is looking at word choices - I won't share my favourite tell yet, although avid fans of mine will already know.

My issue on readability isn't the word choices, but the way the posts are broken up, which just makes it hard work and effort to read and digest. Maybe you're right it isn't much effort to post, and it's a good way to conceal things,

but

it's also a good way to stand out as being different, and generally scum prefer to lurk in the shadows.

[stungun0404]

Sorry to say, but I'm not a big fan of the gimmick. It makes it a bit of a chore to read the thread. It feels bad to vote them because of it and it feels bad to parse the posts.

Also, all the talk about past games is confusing. Could I convince you all to either stop/limit it or explain it to those of us who lack the context to interpret it?

It would be in bad taste to just justify a vote and a possible lynch off just that.

@malakittens: Why did you feel the need to point this out? I am curious. Ghost implied no intention to vote for him or justify a lynch for him -- but you randomly come to defend against a lynch/vote for HK50? How come?

[bob3141]

I ask as at the moment i'm in a slight town reading mala. In my experience scum tends to avoid jumping on rvs wagons when they have already stacked up 3 votes. Either mala is scum and unafraid of the spotlight or as i feel at the moment a fellow townie that simply does not have anything to fear in the first place.

Only seen twice scum on 4thed place on rvs wagon. One was when scum was being rvs wagoned and the other was a scum player that spent much of the rest of the game jumping on wagons.


And mala comments on hk feel that it matches that pattern as well. Of a anotehr townie that inst afraid to get their neck stuck in and let thier views be known.

In my experience scum dont like being caught on large wagon in vs.

Take my last completed mini. Although i was on losing side if you looked back at day one. scum rvs voted me and as soon as i picked up my 4th vote. That Scum player was teh first to jump off. And infact tried to distance them selves from that wagon.

[Clarification:]

Expect you gave a strong case for why such a behavior is scummy and even provide evidence that scum tends to not commit to higher bandwagons in random voting stage. I'm aware it isn't identical, but my situation has aspects of that which to my photoreceptors indicates there should be some feeling one way or another based on my unvote.

I said theorically I'm scum from your point of view due in part by your own admission you were confused to why I am asking you this line of queries. I don't particularly care what the actual alignment is, but rather your thought process behind it in order to gague your master malakitten read.

[Demand:]

Look at that specific interaction of me unvoting. You given me the range I fall in, but only off the logic of me misconducting processing your point. Disregard that and analyze that temporal moment in space. What range would you rank that unvote to be in?

Your vote change from NS seems rather logical and well considered. It doesn't look to me like rash scum trying to get off. As i would have expected your vote change if you were scum to be more to the point. Abrupt even, while not really even making much acknowledging the change.

If there is scum on that rvs wagon of NS then my gut feeling is that if my read on you is right that you would have beaten them to the chase.

As far my slight town reads are you and mala. So if that rvs wagon wasn't all town then scum are likely in dunstral and pepper. Dunstals change was just sudden. Following the pushes of far and NS but with little extra input given. While peppers was little better but in reaction to Dunstals mala vote.

Now the question is. Was that rvs wagon all town. Which i have seen quite a few times and happens more than not.

[HK 50]

I’m giving mala space bc I’m nice and also a wee bit drunk

There’s more than one way to skin a huma- a ca- an animal

[Rebuttal:]

Space to do what exactly? You asked a similar question to Masters Doctorpepper and Farside right afterwards which indicated to my sensors it was directed towards townish people in your perspective. Or is this wrong?

[Accusation:]

During the Farside vs Malakitten interaction, you simultaneously supported farside read while also pleading the case that somebody not knowing the reference is NAI. I would have no issue with this had you committed to something like: "Master Farside push was good for the info at the time, but ultimately I find the points raised to be NAI".

In short, I see you as someone who is fencesitting. Your actions seemed planned to respond to whatever the threads focus was at the time. When master Malakitten was being pushed, you voiced suspicion in post 70 and 74 fueling it. When the pressure waned and was redirected to Dunnstral/farside, you casually begin to treat master malakitten as town tonally.

[Unrelated Answer:]

Indeed, there are many ways to deleather an organic being. The easiest of course is to set the still breathing body over a roasting fire to soften the skin. A quick few dashes with a vibrosword tends to be all you need afterwards master. Shall I give more methodology?

[bob3141]

I think Mala isn't scum for not knowing a video game reference from Star Wars. Hell I am a fan and I didn't get it

I think Mala's 90 is a good post. Idk I would think scum would be quite brash and adamant in their posting so I think Mala is town for admitting to the rocky start

I am not liking painting her as scum for this interaction. Not a fan of the votes on her and the person leading it

VOTE: Dunnstral

I could go Dunn or farside for the Mala push rn tbh

That second questions open to DP and farside too before I effort and read those wall posts from bob and bot

Dunnstral

So you said you would vote far or dun over their mala push. Was that the reason for your vote on dun as in that post you talked about how you felt that mala was town. Rather than talking about your read on dun. Was it duns mala vote that spurned your vote? If so what about dun lead you to scum read him enough to vote.

With all you later mentioning in post 99 about dun and farside in relation to their push on mala.

Since both dun and far and even NS voted mala prior to your dun posts. What is your read on those two players that you didn't vote for. Why dun over them.

[notscience]

It’s the people in this game I’m used to ask any of them

[HK 50]

Hm. I really did just like HK 137. But I want to see how that progresses

That post has a bad gut feeling, but will wait for redemption

[Interrogation:

Master Malakitten, you have made several posts showing a stance without explaining it nor fully committing to it. Please explain your pings. Has the interaction with master bob3141 reached a finite conclusion read wise considering you town ping both of us?

Right now I’m liking bob’s posts. The way he’s going about is very similar to the last game we played together. I’m starting to see you scum hunting while you’re using your gimmick. A lot of players that use gimmicks hide behind it and don’t actually scum hunt. So that give me town pings.

Where as Battle Mange is the post I was referring to that felt a scum ping IMO. That’s way before he even thought I was OMGUSing him.

[Rebuttal:]

I can understand the town pings, but do you also have knowledge of scum!bob3141?

I understand the context of the master battle mage ping. I'm asking you to explain what in the original post sticks out as scummy in your eyes.

[HK 50]

bob's posts look like scum trying to effort. (shrug)

[Query:]

While the movements of your upper filaments is quite an 'effective' form of communication, can you please explain this further?

[HK 50]

Green Crayons Notes

He has played extremely safe and cautious, not really going out on a limb on anything, and only really focussing on either highlighting people's towniness, or criticising other's arguments for people's scumminess (which is generally easy for scum to do because they know who is actually scum). In his first 18 posts (all of them prior to my vote) he hadn't indicated suspicion of ANYONE. His only vote was a random vote on Farside - I know it was random because he made it very clear by saying "eenie meanie minie mo". The only other thing of note is that his 4th post was an apology (which incidentally was the thing which pinged me into doing an ISO) for being rude...only he hadn't really been that rude? by the standards of this site, it was about as courteous as a criticism gets. So the apology just seemed a bit OTT and like he was walking on eggshells. No meta yet, but an absence of town enthusiasm or active engagement - more of the commentating from the sidelines style.

[Statement:]

I wouldnt say 'overly cautious' as a description of his play, but I do see the point you raise over his lack of actually voicing reads in reference to alignment and not mafia theory.

Humor my durasteel frame for a moment, and paint me a picture of what you would expect town!master Green Crayons. Keeping the context that he voiced that the situation was NAI, what would you propose him to be doing?

[bob3141]

VOTE: Malakittens

You are mafia

Por que?

I don't like the way you went about the early game, votato + hk50, and then the notscience vote

You say your original read on mala was based on you claiming town wouldn't try and make partner connections so early in the game. But outside of mala comments relating to that what is your read on mala. With bit in relation to mala NS vote

As i don't get where the scum read on mala is coming from. As the comments you are basing your scum read on feel more like off the cuff remarks that don't feel like they have an agenda. Rather than scum intending to push a hk50 or vots lynch by saying their actions mean they are scum. While not actually saying why they think each one is individually scum. Ive seen that, i do feel that is what mala did.

Also what ddi you think about mala NS was scummy as you said you didn't like it?

And do you have any town read or other scum reads so far as you have only mentioned mala so far.

[HK 50]

I am currently a few pages into reading, but would like to make a request. @HK50, I love your posting style -- so nothing against it -- but could you possibly use less sophisticated words to get your points across? I can understand what you are saying if I really spend time looking into your every post, but it is very hard to read some of your posts on the surface.

Another reason I ask this is because using a ton of more complicated words makes it more difficult than normal to read your intentions. This posting style could be extremely effective for scum to hide behind, because it is an easy way for them to blanket their intentions, because a lot more effort is needed than typical to truly assess their motives.

And if you are town, then it should make sense why this could become an issue. Because if people are having to spend too much time looking at a townplayer's posts to unpack their motives, it takes away from their focus of scumhunting, which absolutely could lead us down the wrong path in the long run.

[Answer:]

Oh master stungun0404, you wound me! Not physically, but linguistically!

[Confession:]

While I do understand the point of your request, do note that such verbose vocabulary is natural to me. I will attempt to 'simplify' my post's wording, yet I'm not sure if I can adequately voice it any better if I do.

My declaration of intent though what precedes my paragraphs are non-negotiable. They are hard wired into my programming. However, admiss longer posts in the later stages of the game (assuming the mafia fails to assess my threat level correctly), I think such a formatting will prove to be useful.

[Statement:]

I will try, but do not hold me to it.

[HK 50]

[Egotistical Boast:]

Although I do find it quite amusing the ramifications my sheer existence has had so far. The debates about me being a fictitious video game character to the exquisite nature of my vocalizer, why, it makes me feel a hint of individuality amongst my fellow models.

[Egotistical Boast:]

I feel...good about how much of a twist my...posting has resulted in.

[stungun0404]

eenie. meanie. miney. moe.

VOTE: farside

also obviously mala's suspicion of votato is bad, and her back-burner nonsense is silly, but lol nonetheless at farside and notscience

Literally my only early townlean from the first 3 pages, so put me in the crowd of how I don't get why you suspected farside as of that point in the game. I think they asked a great question to Dunnstral in post 20 that more likely than not comes from town in my opinion, although I could be wrong which is why it's limited to just a townlean.

Can someone also remind me how to link to certain posts on here? It has been awhile since I last had to do that.

[notscience]

Post # /post

But with [] around them

[HK 50]

It’s the people in this game I’m used to ask any of them

[Statement:]

My mistake then. Can you please answer what the purpose was to giving Mala space then rather than push them further?

[stungun0404]

29 from farside, my mistake. It was in response to Dunnstral's 20

[notscience]

It’s the people in this game I’m used to ask any of them

[Statement:]

My mistake then. Can you please answer what the purpose was to giving Mala space then rather than push them further?

Because I didn’t remember it til she said it but I feel like she’s right that I always early tunnel and if she is town it’s easier to work with her when I don’t spend half the game trying to lunch her

And everyone slips when pressured not just scum

[Malakittens]

So we moved from video game debate to vernacular debate

don't get medical with me!

Wait we are getting medical?!? That’s my area of expertise

[Green Crayons]

Literally my only early townlean from the first 3 pages, so put me in the crowd of how I don't get why you suspected farside as of that point in the game. I think they asked a great question to Dunnstral in post 20 that more likely than not comes from town in my opinion, although I could be wrong which is why it's limited to just a townlean.

I've already explained this: here, here, and here.

[Green Crayons]

bob's posts look like scum trying to effort. (shrug)

[Query:]

While the movements of your upper filaments is quite an 'effective' form of communication, can you please explain this further?

It's a bunch of words that don't really do much.

[stungun0404]

You’re a towel

so very very useful?

I don't get to look at mafia much at the weekends, 5 pages of I have no clue what arguing about ?

Glad I am missing it...

you all do you, i'm going to wait until things become more clear

Stalling is anti-town, so no don't wait, try to get others to produce content instead by asking questions and engaging them in discussion. Scum, from my experience, stall frequently, so this officially puts you on my radar. Town should never feel like they can just wait on others to produce content in their absence.

[Green Crayons]

In particular my eyes glazed over on the RVS theory. Just feels like empty effort.

[Not_Mafia]

Why is Kokkol not lynched yet?

[Green Crayons]

We're going to sort HK from his scum hunting and wagon analysis.

E Z