Micro 948: Noughts and Crosses Blitz [Game over!]

[beeboy]

GL votes me for being a corner, he asks me a question which has a clear answer for me to say, kill a corner.
Then he asks me for 3 reads on middle players and doesn't ask me about any corner players. Feels like dissonance.
He is also pushing a range of players but is also only voting no posters for the most part. Feels very weird to me.

I feel like you're blending times where I'm concerned about the board and times where I'm concerned about the game

I asked you about those three players because I feel they're important slots to give reads on to get a sense of your overall view of the game state.

I have made two votes this game, one on Maxwell and one on rozyroz, and they are both corners. I have certainly pushed Clover and Kanna/CSF and Blair to a degree in varying degrees at different points, because I am finding the three of them important to sort. I will not vote any of them today because they are edges.

Why is any of that "weird"?

If you don't want to vote edges, why is you're instinct to ask me for reads on 3 edge players when you don't want me voting them ever.
I don't get it, it's weird because you're asking me for reads that you don't actually have a reason to care about.

You're filling space not seeking out my reads in a way to work with me if my answer somehow convinces you I am town.

[Umlaut]

Vote Count 1.5

maxwell ​	Clover Ebi ​	GuiltyLion ​
T-Bone ​	Celeste ​	Blair ​
beeboy ​	Cat Scratch Fever ​	Dunnstral ​

beeboy

(4): maxwell, GuiltyLion, Celeste, Dunnstral

Dunnstral

(3): T-Bone, Clover Ebi, beeboy

maxwell

(2): Blair, Cat Scratch Fever

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-06-16 00:50:00)

[beeboy]

Spoiler:

^ my death outcomes.

[Clover Ebi]

Shouldn't this mostly be about who we townread and wouldn't mind in lylo more than who we scumread?

[Clover Ebi]

Okay. Celeste gets NKed because it is pointless to speculate otherwise.

Maxwell is lynched means T-Bone vs Clover. In order to lynch Maxwell here, he has to be scum, otherwise this nearly guarantees 5p LyLo.

Lynching beeboy means T-Bone vs. CSF. Which, while I think CSF is more likely to be scum than Clover at this point, is not ideal from my perspective for obvious reasons.

Lynching GuiltyLion means Clover vs Blair. This is interesting pairing. I townread Clover...I don't know how I feel about Blair anymore, but probably would want to test her more to see how viable as scum she is.

Lynching Dunnstral means Blair vs. CSF. Which is ideal from my perspective. Dunn and CSF are my two strongest scumreads. They are a possible pair, but that hinges on getting beeboy lynched today and me lynched tomorrow.

Right now beeboy is at L-1. Meaning that we lynch either CSF or myself tomorrow. We already know where Maxwell's comfort level is on this. Presumably Dunnstral is going to prefer my lynch. GuiltyLion, are you okay with this?

(yes I know we could lynch another corner as well meaning it's actually a 3-way tomorrow, but for all intents and purposes it would result in the same sets of deaths)

Am I missing something? Can't in theory we lynch the person on the other side of the square? Not just beside them. So if max was lynched we have 4 options not just a 1v1? Or am I incorrect.

[beeboy]

Shouldn't this mostly be about who we townread and wouldn't mind in lylo more than who we scumread?

To some degree yes, but I think people wanting to pivot after flips occur is inevitable.
So listing all outcomes is better than just listing the best lylo outcome.

Personally I want the top left corner to be our lylo.

pedit: I drew diagrams showing the options!! T-bone made me realize we can lynch the middle square so I don't blame him I only considered lynching purely corners

[Clover Ebi]

Personally I want the top left corner to be our lylo.

I think our reads are exactly the same atm.

[Clover Ebi]

I hope our ic comes back so Beeboy isn't hammered yet. Although I'll probably lynch anyone who tries to hammer so soon. Grrr fear me

[maxwell]

Not impressed with Cat Scratch Fever's entry posts at all. Feel like random selections of posts to comment on, no real insight, riding off of things other people say. Doesn't improve my view of the slot at all.

This? I don't feel the need to repeat what other people say when I replace in, and I think I've made my reads clear soon enough after I replaced in. I don't think people need to come up with an original reason to scumread someone. Why is it scummy to agree with someone else on a read?

My feeling is that you're not showing any real amount of analysis or attempts to find mafia and mostly just conversing instead. I engaged Blair in a fairly contentious way and had her agree to a 1v1 if I was voted out today, and your reaction was to post a meme image, it struck me as a lack of seriousness toward that engagement, I'd expect a player who's seriously attempting to scumhunt to at least come away from that with some form of opinion on us.

[maxwell]

Am I missing something? Can't in theory we lynch the person on the other side of the square? Not just beside them. So if max was lynched we have 4 options not just a 1v1? Or am I incorrect.

You can technically vote anyone you like, but if you vote opposite squares on the board it guarantees an automatic loss if both are town and at any rate for any combinatio of opposite squares, there's a way to kill both while deciding which two other players get killed. There's no reason to cede control of who dies otherwise.

[GuiltyLion]

I've read along but I'm frankly too tired rn to respond to everything, I might post a little bit later but probably gonna just hit this hard in the morning (10-12 hours from now)

I do think that considering the game from 'which f3 do we prefer' is a good way of framing things. and on that note:

Personally I want the top left corner to be our lylo.

I think I am fine with this. I don't think want a Clover/GL/Blair LYLO as that feels like a loss

UNVOTE:

[maxwell]

I'll take the Dunnstral vote if people agree to it, I definitely think beeboy is likely town at this point and a sequence that gets CSF and Blair is ideal for me based on where my reads are. Sort of bothered by how static clover's reads are with them seeming to be based on stuff in the first couple pages but not enough to change my read on him, just knocks down my confidence a couple of rungs.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm trying to figure how worried I should be about a Clover/T-Bone team... I think T-Bone is pretty good odds of town but I kinda hate that by the time we learn both Blair and CSF's alignments it would be too late. if only Dunn/Blair were swapped on the board haha

however since it doesn't feel like T-Bone nor Clover engineered this plan, it's highly unlikely I think

[GuiltyLion]

Sort of bothered by how static clover's reads are

and yes his sticky scumread on me (while being my neighbor) makes me want to die

in the literal sense lmao

it's very questionable that somehow I of all people remain his strongest scumread

that reeks of trying to set up for LYLO

[GuiltyLion]

buuuut that's still like paranoia/worst case thinking I think

I think it's basically just Blair/CSF in like 50%+ of universes

[GuiltyLion]

EXAMPLE PLEASE IGNORE




No possible outcome isn't just a corner f3 right?
So shouldn't we be thinking about the best looking corner right now instead of best line to kill

actually another problem with this is if it's like a CSF/Clover team

[Clover Ebi]

The last time I got framed as trying to set up lylo was by scum.

@max Why does it matter if my read developed early game when there was still clearly content to work with? I don’t think when the read happened is that important more so the progression on the read itself.

[GuiltyLion]

what matter is that I am so clearly trying to game solve compared to CSF/Blair slots and you seem to refuse to acknowledge that in any sense

[Clover Ebi]

I also don’t see the problem with my reads being static. Although, I don’t think my reads have been static the closest you can say to that is guilty but that’s cherry picking
Pedit: The part you seem to ignore is I’ve openly agreed to killing csf. Along with the fact your entire basis for why you should be town read is wrong

[GuiltyLion]

also you opened by asking for feedback on your scumread on me, then several players (Maxwell, Dunn) have quite explicitly townread me and yet that now doesn't seem to bother you at all

[Clover Ebi]

Im not tunneling you, I’m not ignoring your reasoning I just don’t think your posting is townie compared to others and I don’t get why that bothers you so much.

[Clover Ebi]

There isn’t a case where I would ever vote beeboy tbone or max over you. I am voting Dunnstal over you even when T-bone has expressed interest in your lynch. I just think you’re overreacting for no reason. Or maybe your ego is hurt, I honestly can’t tell right now

[maxwell]

I'd really take the gamble on csf day 2 over blair. I just don't like that slot at all and Blair's probably less likely to have a teammate of t-bone or clover.

The last time I got framed as trying to set up lylo was by scum.

@max Why does it matter if my read developed early game when there was still clearly content to work with? I don’t think when the read happened is that important more so the progression on the read itself.

The issue is that I don't really see that progression from you anywhere? All you seem to have been reading from is those early posts and haven't made much if any evaluation on subsequent things. It kind of seems like you just made your mind up that that was how you wanted to read those players and have stuck to it. I wouldn't mind you having the same reads if you were saying their latest posts reinforced you opinions but I don't see any evaluation on that level.

[Blair]

Can anyone succinctly explain why Dunnstral is being so widely scumread? It's becoming a pervasive view and I just can't see it at all.

I've played in two games with scum!Dunnstral *very* recently, and I correctly identified him pre-flip in both. Dunnstral is town. Stop being silly and sheep me.

Maxwell and I had a deal, it's... telling that there is so much resistance to it.

[Clover Ebi]

I feel like the only one you can say I really didn’t update my read on is T-bone but considering he just posted i felt like it should be self explanatory that I still had a town read on them. Along with the fact I feel my progression with each slot has been very open so I don’t see how you’re not understanding. Yes 3 of my reads started from early game but I don’t see why you and guilty aren’t making sure a big deal about it. I’m always willing to listen to others opinions and back off if needed but just because I still hold the same opinion after a conversation does not make my reads static