Newbie 2010: Pride Month | Game Over

[Snowblaze]

Pagetop!

...wow.

Am I missing something? Did I fail at basic thread comprehension? (Probably!)

[gibus]

Do you think scum would force a town read on me?

I don't know, but in Snow's case it doesn't match her paranoid tone (56,90)

[gibus]

Wut

Snowblaze is confirmed scum for stealing my pagetop

[Snowblaze]

I'd be interested to hear that town lean explained more actually.

Do you think scum would force a town read on me?

I feel like scum would be more likely to go after easy targets than someone seeming towny very early on. Not very strong, but at that stage it was better than nothing.

pedit: well, not my fault I happened to post at that time, is it?

[Snowblaze]

I’m not normally that paranoid. I think I’ve recovered and got back to my normal state of only-slightly-paranoid.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

I'd be interested to hear that town lean explained more actually.

Do you think scum would force a town read on me?

Yes. You tend to be a hard person for me to read.

[Hectic]

Can someone give me a pep talk before I catchup? To get me fired up ya know.

[Ghost Ganster]

@Hectic, you're the best! Please, use your superior intellect, and tell us who you'd be looking at if Elmo is lynched and flips scum! And could you also share your supernatural insights on the exchanges between Snowblaze and Homura?

Okay, but did you consider that other players can analyze the answers to your questions anyway? You don't even necessarily have to be the one doing the analyzing (though that's always good). This is a team game. If you're town, you should be playing to help yourself

and

your teammates. So even if you can't follow up, asking questions, adding pressure, voting people, is always helpful.

Surely if my tone is different to previous games when I was scum it should imply that I’m

not

scum.

The fact you were scum in your game together wasn't in Homura's post. If it's true, then your point is very valid, the omission is scummy in itself, and her explanation for listing you as possible scum loses whatever little basis it already had (I'm not a huge fan of meta).

The difference is in contrast to all her previous games, not just scum games. I considered her tone off-putting in a vacuum. My post was not nebulous enough to misunderstand this.

On its own, probably not (perhaps that "more" you used makes things less clear, though). But Snowblaze's post seemed to indicate that you had only played together when she was scum. Since I don't know who's right (and I'm not about to go look at every game you played), I'm just gonna say that it looks like one of you could be trying to lie or cherry-pick certain pieces and omit others. Either way, like I said, I'm really not a big fan of meta, especially someone else's, so I'm not going to base much of anything on this.

That said, I would have liked it if you had replied to the paragraph before, the one about teamwork and such, instead of completely ignoring it.

Ghost vote on Elmo.

I'm not sure what you mean, sorry. Are you asking me to vote Elmo?

...wow.

Unhelpful. Just clarify your post and explain how/why Snowblaze's question (and now mine) was silly or what-have-you. We are not in your head, and misunderstandings happen, anyway.

I'm not sold on Elmo being scum. She seems pretty aggressive with how she's voting people, but I don't think scum are usually this aggressive in their play. However, the only thing I can attribute to her continual movement of votes and reactions as town is as some form of reaction test (can't really explain much beyond this because this just feels like a possibility in this context). Reaction tests aren't useful though unless information is gained from them so I'd like Elmo to explain the motivation behind her movement of votes at some point.

Can you go over these reaction tests and see what reactions they caused and whether information was gained and what it could have meant?

What does TStBS stand for? Couldn't find it in the page 1 abbreviations link.

First, it's lynch-voting, which I explained in the post in which I did it, is also a great way to pressure the lurker in question to stop lurking and being more active. But even ignoring the fact we disagree on the premise, how do you explain that I didn't push another, then? Elmo's, for example?

What do you mean exactly by lynch-voting? I agree with pressuring the lurker, that's a good reason to vote. But don't you think it would be better to vote the lurker based on something they said or just the fact that they're not posting context rather then outright state you want to policy-lynch them?

What do you mean by the second part? How do I explain that you didn't push another scumread?

Yes, and I explained it in the post in which I actually vote for her. And with the second part I mean: you say it looks like I'm setting up mislynches and if any gained traction I would have pushed that one. So I'm asking you: how do you explain that I didn't do it, then? How do you explain that I didn't push Elmo's when it gained traction? Or perhaps Snowblaze's or piisirrational's?

-Snowblaze having exactly zero reads... I wouldn't say it's necessarily indicative of an alignment, but once again it's unhelpful, so it does raise my suspicions. I'm of the opinion that having bad reads (whatever "bad" means) is better than having none, so I personally would

force

myself to get some (if you get what I mean) in her shoes. Thankfully I'm paranoid enough that it's never going to happen, most likely. XD

You say Snowblaze not having any reads isn't alignment indicative then you say that's not helpful. And not being helpful raises your suspicions therefore you think Snowblaze is sus for something you state is NAI. You contradict yourself. So if this gains traction you can keep pushing this point towards them being scummy. If it doesn't you can use the exact same point to call them town if need be.

Scummy is different from unhelpful, but unhelpful is good for scum. It follows that scum likes it when people are unhelpful and is on average more likely to be unhelpful as well. There's no contradiction there. And to say that I could use that to call them town looks

very

dishonest, because as you pointed it out yourself, I said it's either NAI or suspicious. There is absolutely no room for me to townread them with it.

So that leaves Umlaut who you only had town reasons for and gibus who you never mention in this post or at all besides your RVS vote yet is 4th on your lynch list (so I assume you scumread him too?)

Not really. At the time, he had posted basically no content, so he was sort of high on my list because of a lack of activity, though not nearly on the same level as Homura's.

I sort of liked (if not agreed with) your answers to my other points, though.

[gibus]

Tstbs - Too scummy to be scum

[Hectic]

@Hectic, you're the best! Please, use your superior intellect, and tell us who you'd be looking at if Elmo is lynched and flips scum! And could you also share your supernatural insights on the exchanges between Snowblaze and Homura?

Oo, this hit the spot. Catching up now.

[Hectic]

97: Oh, I realised I find something else that's scummy about this Elmo post. I don't like the way she acknowledges she's probably wrong and that Snowblaze is frustrated, yet is still pushing it. Flailing due to being instantly called out by Homura?

99: Hey, gibus. How'd you know Homura was applying a meta read on turtle in 91? Was it because of this post?

PT

Scum PT slip???

103: This is a good point from Raya. Having 10 things that look scum-indicative, and just a couple that look towny isn't natural. Is this normal for you, Ghost? I'll send the meta analysers on you if you lie to me.

121 feels odd. Maybe because the defence feels a little unnecessary/over justified.

I dislike the style of interrogation you took with this post, however. The rapid-fire questioning feels unsubtle.

Why is being unsubtle scummy?

84: This doesn't feel like the Umlaut I know and love! You understand that scum are usually found more often on wagons, right?

Maybe I don't understand this. More often than they aren't? More often than town are?

Everyone is found more often on wagons because wagons by definition include a large fraction of the players.

Scum are found more often on wagons. I guess you've never played with Bob before, because he'll drive that point home until you're mad. Obviously everyone is found more often on wagons, but scum are generally more wagon hoppy/opportunistic, since they're happier to wagon anyone that isn't them, while town may go vanity for others.

[Hectic]

That was an even post... what am I even doing.

[Hectic]

(In response to your next post, I am most definitely town or scum)

I'm glad you cleared that up for me

Not so fast. If I've learnt one thing about Umlaut over the years, it's that he's incredibly deceptive and will lie 90% of the time, as any alignment. Don't rule him out as a mere town or scum just yet.

[Umlaut]

Since I lie 90% of the time you should just assume the opposite of everything I say is true. Except for that last sentence. And that one. And that one...

[Umlaut]

Ghost vote on Elmo.

I think I parsed this sentence differently from the folks who are asking "why do you want Ghost Ganster to do that"

but I'll let Homura speak for herself.

[Hectic]

I like both Raya and Ghost tbh. I agree with Ghost's stance that Raya shouldn't be calling turtle town for 121, and I agree with Raya that Ghost seeing too many scum-indicative things, and only a couple of town-indicative things are a cause for concern. They're both valid reasons, but aren't especially condemning either. I like the rest of their posting.

At the top of page 8 now. nEaRlY tHeRe

[Hectic]

My eyes are drooping and I feel tired so I'm gonna come back to this tomorrow after a 8 hour power nap.

Did you oversleep?

It ended up being a 40 hour power nap. I hate when that happens.

[Hectic]

You have a point about null reads but I think that applies much later on the game rather than 6 pages in. A lot of null reads this early is normal. A lot of scumreads this early doesn't sit well with me.

To clarify: I'm scumreading you because of your SR, not because you have a lot of nullreads.

Explain? This doesn't make sense. Raya's explanation of why she finds Ghost scummy ("I honestly think Ghost's list of scumreads was setting up mislynches and if any gained traction he would push that one." and how she disagreed with Ghost's suggestion of a policy lynch) is perfectly valid and I don't see any scum motivation here for Raya to push Ghost.

Not a fan. It's another "defend someone and ask the accuser to elaborate" kind of post. They're not hard for scum to make, and I want to see more independent thoughts, turtle.

I'm not sold on Elmo being scum. She seems pretty aggressive with how she's voting people, but I don't think scum are usually this aggressive in their play. However, the only thing I can attribute to her continual movement of votes and reactions as town is as some form of reaction test (can't really explain much beyond this because this just feels like a possibility in this context). Reaction tests aren't useful though unless information is gained from them so I'd like Elmo to explain the motivation behind her movement of votes at some point.

Hmm, following the trend here. I don't get why you think town!Elmo can only be doing this as reaction tests. Why can't it just be playstyle? This is a perfect way for you to look like you're defending town but without an actual valid reason, since scum!you might expect town!Elmo to absolutely not be doing reaction testing, so you don't need to worry about actually derailing the wagon.

[Hectic]

PageEighteenth!

[Hectic]

I'd be interested to hear that town lean explained more actually.

Do you think scum would force a town read on me?

I feel like scum would be more likely to go after easy targets than someone seeming towny very early on. Not very strong, but at that stage it was better than nothing.

pedit: well, not my fault I happened to post at that time, is it?

I kinda agree with this, and was factoring it in for my read of Raya. Gives her slight town points for pushing Ghost who a lot players liked after the initial thoughts post.

gibus, what pinged you about that townlean on Raya in particular out of everything? Her paranoid posts that you linked didn't contain any paranoia about Raya.

[Hectic]

Grego
Aya
Swan
Busi
Talum
Amu
Norati
Melena

[Hectic]

@Hectic, you're the best! Please, use your superior intellect, and tell us who you'd be looking at if Elmo is lynched and flips scum! And could you also share your supernatural insights on the exchanges between Snowblaze and Homura?

No idea if Elmo is lynched and flips scum, and I don't think it's a valuable use of time to look into it. Preflip analysis is overrated.

Snowblaze comes out looking better from the interactions. Homura is an odd one. I got town pings early on but I dislike this:

For Snow, I feel like she's taking a more cheery, airy tone with her posts that I find a little off-putting. Don't know what to think about the implication that she took for granted I'm town. I have also consistently misread her in our games, so slight paranoia plays a role as well.

The difference is in contrast to all her previous games, not just scum games. I considered her tone off-putting in a vacuum. My post was not nebulous enough to misunderstand this.

Homura has only played with Snowblaze while Snowblaze was scum.

I can see why you'd scumread it in a vacuum if you found it off-putting, but you specified "she's taking a more" which means you're comparing it to her scum-games. That's what I find strange.

[keyenpeydee]

I'm aiming for the page top so don't mind me.

[keyenpeydee]

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[keyenpeydee]

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