Mini 644 - Meerkat Manor Mafia (Game Over!)

[muffinhead]

Well coug is the only one Ive played with and in that game he was scum. He acted very strategic and sensible, while in this game hes been right out there. Hes personally so far has been so different compared to that game. I dont like his play however his personality is holding me back from thinking hes actualy scum.

[Rishi]

Vote Count

StrangerCoug – 3 (Cass, Ectomancer, Rhinox)
Clockwork Ruse – 2 (curiouskarmadog, muffinhead)
MafiaMann – 1 (wolframnhart)
Rhinox – 1 (StrangerCoug)
muffinhead – 1 (Bogre)

Not voting: ace1217, jonathantan86, Clockwork Ruse, MafiaMann

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug deserves votes piled on him for that self-vote. It's not helpful and this pressure might make him think twice before doing it again. He's not going to get quicklynched by town, and if scum piles on, Huzzah! We got one or two for tomorrow...
I still say we string him up. Somebody's gotta die today, we might as well do the volunteer

Your reducing yourself to advocating my mislynch is heavily noted, and the FoS I have out for you is hereby upgraded to a

Major HoS: Ectomancer

. Seriously, if I have reacted to the current situation in a scummy manner, then please point that out and bring it to my attention, but dying over disagreements as to what is and is not acceptable in the random voting stage does not make any sense.

[ClockworkRuse]

I dont like this post. What have you got against people being at L-3 and L-4? its not as if there in a dangerous position. I really doubt scum would be dumb enough to put more votes on coug or mafiamann for the sack of trying to lycnh them. Cause then it outs them as scum tomorrow. You seem way to concerned.
Thats why I will

unvote, vote clock

I also dont like the fact that coug is voting for people because they voted for him.

Still dont like mafiamann either, hasnt made an improvement in my books.

It's not that I'm against people being at L-3 or L-4, it's that I'm against people being at those numbers on the second/third page for little reason. Quicklynch wagons were starting and I didn't like it one bit.

What made you feel that it was acceptable to put Coug at L-4 on page two?

And this is enough to put Mafiamann at L-3 on the second page?

FoS for you

these are ridiculous questions, that are designed to make you look more townie. Actually what does it matter if someone is at -3 or -4 on page two? Information is being gathered..pressure is being put forth...how else do you find out information?...

vote clock...

L-5 would have been adaqute pressure on page two and sudden wagons building for very little reasoning is strange to me. That is what I'm worried about. I didn't want a quicklynch to build up on day one.

I couldnt speel your name

I'm sorry, but that is just a really bad excuse. For someone with 210 posts in the forum, I can imagine you now you could just say Vote: Clock or something like that. I think you jumped onto that wagon knowing what you were doing and now you can't really come up with an excuse for why you did.

HoS

MafiaMann[/b]

[Cass]

Clock and stranger both look quite scummy for panicking about three or four votes, with only very weak reasoning behind them, during early day 1. It seems to me they are trying to use it to throw early suspicion on the people on those wagons. Looks dirty, especially since stranger started his wagon all by himself.
Nobody asked for a lynch, there really wasn't any threat to anyone at any time. L-5 or L-4 on page two is IMHO no pressure at all. Well, enough pressure to not lurk, but no more than that. In such a situation, only doing something majorly scummy can possibly get you quicklynched.

FoS Clock

and my vote stays on Stranger for now.

Muffinhead gives me a bad vibe for some reason. I don't like his meta-defense of stranger.
Mafiamann sounds insincere and shady in his few posts. Same goes for Jonathan. His one and only post doesn't really add anything to the discussion and throws suspicion on both Stranger

and

the people voting him.
Bogre seems overly aggressive, but with just two real posts I have no read on him at all and can't say if the aggression means anything.
Null-read on CKD too, need more posts.
Rhinox seems reasonable and comes off townie, but he's good at that Null-read for now.
Wolframnhart seems townish, though that's just gut.
Ectomancer... scares me a bit, with that post about beating people up But I think his posts aren't extremely serious (yet).
Where's Ace? He still hasn't posted anything.

[StrangerCoug]

Muffinhead gives me a bad vibe for some reason. I don't like his meta-defense of stranger.

Why not?

[ClockworkRuse]

Muffinhead gives me a bad vibe for some reason. I don't like his meta-defense of stranger.

Why not?

Why should anyone besides yourself be defending you.

@Cass, please show how I was panicking? I admit that I don't like anyone having L-3 or L-4 on the second page but I don't see how I was panicking over the votes on someone else. And I'm not throwing suspicion around at all yet, as I'm suspicious of everyone from the start. When I really start to get suspicious of someone, you'll notice it.

[Cass]

Well, perhaps not panicking, but you sounded like you thought it was a pretty big thing, and seriously scummy. Considering the lack of actual threat - I fail to see what you are/were scared of. Mentioning quicklynch when there really wasn't any threat of that seems panicky (or phobic? let's discuss the subtleties of the English language some more!).

[ClockworkRuse]

Well, perhaps not panicking, but you sounded like you thought it was a pretty big thing, and seriously scummy. Considering the lack of actual threat - I fail to see what you are/were scared of. Mentioning quicklynch when there really wasn't any threat of that seems panicky (or phobic? let's discuss the subtleties of the English language some more!).

I do feel that it is a slightly big thing, as anything that sparks out of it is what we have to go off for now.

@Coug, you said that you were looking for reactions from your self-vote, what kind of reactions did you find?

[StrangerCoug]

Well, ClockworkRuse, I certainly didn't want a good part of the town at my throat, that's for sure. I did, however, want a gauge as to how many people and which ones had the WIFOMish thinking of "only scum would vote themselves". Right now Ectomancer fits this state of mind best, and my voting Rhinox is for putting me at an opportunistic L-3 based on Ectomancer's reasoning.

I find it very interesting that Ectomancer doesn't care about scum jumping on my wagon or my getting lynched for the sole reasons of my self-vote and "

omebody's gotta die today". I do intend a vote switch if I don't get a believable defense for this; however, I don't want to clear Rhinox of my suspicion just yet.

[curiouskarmadog]

L-5 would have been adaqute pressure on page two and sudden wagons building for very little reasoning is strange to me. That is what I'm worried about. I didn't want a quicklynch to build up on day one.

-4 is hardly close to quick lynch potential...if I meta you, will I find you jumping on a wagon on page 2 or 3?

[ClockworkRuse]

L-5 would have been adaqute pressure on page two and sudden wagons building for very little reasoning is strange to me. That is what I'm worried about. I didn't want a quicklynch to build up on day one.

-4 is hardly close to quick lynch potential...if I meta you, will I find you jumping on a wagon on page 2 or 3?

Out of the... nine

games I've played, I haven't seen a wagon build that fast. But you would find it at least once, that I know for sure.

[muffinhead]

L-5 would have been adaqute pressure on page two and sudden wagons building for very little reasoning is strange to me. That is what I'm worried about. I didn't want a quicklynch to build up on day one.

-4 is hardly close to quick lynch potential...if I meta you, will I find you jumping on a wagon on page 2 or 3?

Out of the... nine

games I've played, I haven't seen a wagon build that fast. But you would find it at least once, that I know for sure.

Well clock I was in a game not long ago where a townie was on L-1 on the first page. I believe you get the most information when a player is on L-1 because thats when you find out whther there town or scum due to the way they respond. My point being that L-3 isnt a dagnerous position whatsoever and I encourage wagons cause they get information out of players.

@clock- who do you think is scum at this stage in the game?

[ClockworkRuse]

L-5 would have been adaqute pressure on page two and sudden wagons building for very little reasoning is strange to me. That is what I'm worried about. I didn't want a quicklynch to build up on day one.

-4 is hardly close to quick lynch potential...if I meta you, will I find you jumping on a wagon on page 2 or 3?

Out of the... nine

games I've played, I haven't seen a wagon build that fast. But you would find it at least once, that I know for sure.

Well clock I was in a game not long ago where a townie was on L-1 on the first page. I believe you get the most information when a player is on L-1 because thats when you find out whther there town or scum due to the way they respond. My point being that L-3 isnt a dagnerous position whatsoever and I encourage wagons cause they get information out of players.

@clock- who do you think is scum at this stage in the game?

I think it's just a little extreme.

Who do I think is scum?

Mafia is on my list of suspects, he's been taking the path of least resistance, jumping onto an unnecessary wagon, going against what he has told the town what he was going to do while using a very bad defense for it. I just don't buy it.

[Ectomancer]

Well, ClockworkRuse, I certainly didn't want a good part of the town at my throat, that's for sure. I did, however, want a gauge as to how many people and which ones had the WIFOMish thinking of "only scum would vote themselves". Right now Ectomancer fits this state of mind best, and my voting Rhinox is for putting me at an opportunistic L-3 based on Ectomancer's reasoning.

I find it very interesting that Ectomancer doesn't care about scum jumping on my wagon or my getting lynched for the sole reasons of my self-vote and "

omebody's gotta die today". I do intend a vote switch if I don't get a believable defense for this; however, I don't want to clear Rhinox of my suspicion just yet.

Well now this argument is flat out wrong. It is StrangerCoug's stance that seems to imply that only a townie would vote for themselves, thereby creating a WIFOM situation for some sap to fall into.
It is

my

assertion that StrangerCoug noticed the propensity for town

not

to lynch a self-voter and planned to use it to get off the chopping block today. It is a quick way to derail a wagon. Then when asked they simply respond, "Oh well I was just looking for responses to it, and here they are! Tada!"

If the lynch also fulfills a meta-game goal, even better. Don't vote for yourself! It's a crappy, scummy thing to do even if town. You do something like this as town, then it becomes accepted that town does it, and then scum can hide in it. (Which is exactly what I'm saying you are doing)

[MafiaMann]

Right now im not voting anyone but clocks sensless accusatioins of me are ridculous.
Oh my god i put cougar on L-4 which is practically L-5 since one of the votes was his. Its a random vote its not a big deal and you seem to be trying to find anything you can to get people away from you.

[ClockworkRuse]

Right now im not voting anyone but clocks sensless accusatioins of me are ridculous.
Oh my god i put cougar on L-4 which is practically L-5 since one of the votes was his. Its a random vote its not a big deal and you seem to be trying to find anything you can to get people away from you.

It's not that you put him at L-4. It's that you told the town you would do one thing then went against it with ridiculous reasoning. It's that you were jumping onto a wagon without posting any reason and when asked why you did you simply say;
"I couldn't spell CLOCK."

[Rishi]

Prodding ace1217.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, ClockworkRuse, I certainly didn't want a good part of the town at my throat, that's for sure. I did, however, want a gauge as to how many people and which ones had the WIFOMish thinking of "only scum would vote themselves". Right now Ectomancer fits this state of mind best, and my voting Rhinox is for putting me at an opportunistic L-3 based on Ectomancer's reasoning.

I find it very interesting that Ectomancer doesn't care about scum jumping on my wagon or my getting lynched for the sole reasons of my self-vote and "

omebody's gotta die today". I do intend a vote switch if I don't get a believable defense for this; however, I don't want to clear Rhinox of my suspicion just yet.

Well now this argument is flat out wrong. It is StrangerCoug's stance that seems to imply that only a townie would vote for themselves, thereby creating a WIFOM situation for some sap to fall into.
It is

my

assertion that StrangerCoug noticed the propensity for town

not

to lynch a self-voter and planned to use it to get off the chopping block today. It is a quick way to derail a wagon. Then when asked they simply respond, "Oh well I was just looking for responses to it, and here they are! Tada!"

If the lynch also fulfills a meta-game goal, even better. Don't vote for yourself! It's a crappy, scummy thing to do even if town. You do something like this as town, then it becomes accepted that town does it, and then scum can hide in it. (Which is exactly what I'm saying you are doing)

For the last time, I intended to get my self-vote off once I had at least a half-decent idea of scum. I wasn't expecting to be right, and granted, the chances of a third random vote on the same person is awfully low, but it is a step out of random voting that I will take.

In addition, you have twisted my believing that "only scum would vote themselves" is wrong into my believing instead that "only town would vote themselves", which is also wrong and is something I never said or implied. I know for a fact that both are logical fallacies, and I can't figure out how you took my disbelief of the one as a belief of its equally illogical opposite. Self-votes in the random voting stage are null-tells, which is the point I'm trying to bring across.

In case it gets brought up, if I were legitimately advocating my own lynch, then it's something I've seen both scum and town do. Granted, it's scummy; however, I've seen more town than scum do it.

Yes, I am trying to derail my own wagon. That's because I don't like the speed of the wagon and it's over one or two ultimately trivial acts on page 2. Are you supposed to shut up when you're wagoned? I don't think so.

And let me bring up the post I'm most concerned about again, and let me cut it to the part of concern this time:

He's not going to get quicklynched by town, and if scum piles on, Huzzah! We got one or two for tomorrow...
I still say we string him up.

This makes zero sense to me from the point of view of a townie. If town is not going to quicklynch me, then why don't you care about scum on my wagon, and if you do happen to care about scum on my wagon, then why is your vote still out on me?

Keep this in mind, Ectomancer: I now find you more suspicious than Rhinox. In my eyes, Rhinox is guilty only of opportunistic voting. You, on the other hand, are guilty of taking posts out of context, tunnel vision, and misrepresentation. As I said, I am intent on a vote switch if I don't see a believable defense out of you.

[Bogre]

Ectomancer had weak reasons to vote Strangercoug.

Admittedly selfvoting is idiotic but its a null tell, really.

Mafiamann's unwillingness to vote is quite scummy, as well.

[StrangerCoug]

Ectomancer had weak reasons to vote Strangercoug.

Admittedly selfvoting is idiotic but its a null tell, really.

Thank you. Somebody understands my case.

Mafiamann's unwillingness to vote is quite scummy, as well.

I don't consider conservative play like this scummy per se.

[ClockworkRuse]

Mafiamann did vote though, that's why I'm pressuring him.

He voted for Coug after he said that he would random me. Please read back.

He unvoted after he was called out on it.

I thought I was already doing this, but

Vote: MafiaMann

. Something is just off about him.

[MafiaMann]

Right now im not voting anyone but clocks sensless accusatioins of me are ridculous.
Oh my god i put cougar on L-4 which is practically L-5 since one of the votes was his. Its a random vote its not a big deal and you seem to be trying to find anything you can to get people away from you.

It's not that you put him at L-4. It's that you told the town you would do one thing then went against it with ridiculous reasoning. It's that you were jumping onto a wagon without posting any reason and when asked why you did you simply say;
"I couldn't spell CLOCK."

Its a random vote i shouldnt have even answered at all it dosent matter why do you care.

[StrangerCoug]

FoS: MafiaMann

for panicking over a legitimate question.

[ClockworkRuse]

Right now im not voting anyone but clocks sensless accusatioins of me are ridculous.
Oh my god i put cougar on L-4 which is practically L-5 since one of the votes was his. Its a random vote its not a big deal and you seem to be trying to find anything you can to get people away from you.

It's not that you put him at L-4. It's that you told the town you would do one thing then went against it with ridiculous reasoning. It's that you were jumping onto a wagon without posting any reason and when asked why you did you simply say;
"I couldn't spell CLOCK."

Its a random vote i shouldnt have even answered at all it dosent matter why do you care.

Because you told the town what you were going to do, but instead of doing that you took a very opportunistic vote. When asked about it you panicked and now you are getting overly defensive.

Your reaction to two votes is strange and you've had a bad excuse for why you didn't vote me when you said you would.

Mafia, who are you suspicious of?