Open 781: JK9++ Game Over!

[skitter30]

i guess just like: ss do you think i should be townreading you here? if i'm awfully wrong and tunneled where am i going wrong and why?

[Menalque]

i think there's a decent chance there's a bus driver and i therefore don't want to talk about where i'm intending to shoot / if i'm intending to shoot

like i want to keep open the possibility of holstering or shooting ss or shooting a {secret scumread that will henceforth not be named} because then hopefully if i'm still around n3 any potential bus driver will have been spent

I’m not okay with any of this. The whole reason I’ve been fine townlocking you today is you being confirmable and the fact that scum will need to kill you if you’re town. You trying to introduce the possibility of bolstering is not at all helpful because while I don’t think you’d claim that kill on pb as SK, I do think you would if you thought you could get away with there only being one nightkill again N2 or you not killing the obvious choice, which I think you’re kinda doing here by lingering on the unlikely possibility of there being a bus driver to excuse not being forthright about where you’ll shoot

[skitter30]

i'm allowing for that possibility because a50 thinks if there's a bus driver that's the thing i ought to do and i trust his mechanics-sense a lot more than my own

[Menalque]

i think it's darn paranoia becuase this game doesn't feel [solved] and i think i'm wrong [somewhere] and while i don't think i'm wrong on you i think i'm legally obliged to have this conversation with myself at least like once per dayphase

right

Okay, so why do you think you’re feeling that you’re wrong somewhere?

Also datisi if I’m about to work through your reads with you to try and help you get to a greater confidence and you end up flipping scum I’m gonna be so pissed in postgame lmao

that's the problem, i don't *know*

like sure lili could be red, okay fine i'm accepting that
i still kinda don't think s_s is? and there's the jumbled mess of {fb, maria, pp} and i'm kinda townreading everyone else

like the thing is i am not seeign anythign pointing at "this is wrong" other than my expericence that my reads are generally garbage

So that’s 5 names and we have 2 mislynches left and there’s 3 scum? So if you don’t think you have a particular reason to think that pool is wrong and that you shouldn’t be townreading everyone else, do you think maybe the best approach is to just flip a couple of slots within there and then go from there, which would mean that in this case your feeling that something is “wrong” rn is just paranoia borne of a low information gamestate

[Menalque]

i'm allowing for that possibility because a50 thinks if there's a bus driver that's the thing i ought to do and i trust his mechanics-sense a lot more than my own

Would you agree that bingle tends not to lie about mechanics regardless of alignment and get a second opinion there?

[skitter30]

yes

[Menalque]

I think the value of you being de facto conftown outweighs the risk of you being busdriven by a margin. I’m willing to listen to the case why that may be wrong but I think it’s obviously correct

[skitter30]

also you know that i'm not like ~that creative~ as scum, right?

[skitter30]

i functionally am conftown tbh, and you're being paranoid and vastly overestimating how risky/creative i'd be

[Menalque]

also you know that i'm not like ~that creative~ as scum, right?

I respect your scumgame /far/ too much to answer affirmatively here

[skitter30]

like i don't want to suicide myself via shooting ss and being bus-driven with him
and if i think that's somewhat likely to happen i wouldn't do that

[Menalque]

I unironically think that would probably be more helpful to a town win than you not shooting and having to try and sort you without you having been confirmed — especially as scum have much less motivation to kill you in the case that you’re bolstering or shooting a ~*top secret scumread*~ who might make you look really bad

[skitter30]

ok, but i don't want to accidentally suicide so like

unless you're positing that i'm groupscum there being two nk's won't prove that i'm not sk anyways so i'm not sure why you're so focused on making sure there's a confirmable action after last night

[Firebringer]

I am gonna start campaigning for my own lynch soon cause all I see is stupid in this thread.

[Firebringer]

lilith and SS has one scum in it at most. I am pretty sure. The question is if Lilith is pocketed or SS.
I am leaning Lilith is pocketed.

SO LETS LYNCH SS FOR THE WIN PEOPLE.

MAFIA = EZ

[Almost50]

Warning: I am practically "brain dead" today. It's 40 Celsius today and I've slept over 12 hours and I feel more exhausted (body & brain) than I was before I went to sleep. (Just wanted to say that in advance in case I posted something that didn't make sense and/or sounded totally irrelevant, although I don't even feel lik talking too much)

[Bingle]

does anybody want to talk with me about whether they think lilith/ss can be svs?

I think it's unlikely that they're both scum, but I'm not sure which one is more likely to be.

[Bingle]

surely if he sees me flip town that would make him reconsider SS?

Why?

[Almost50]

I’d much rather you just shot him tbh

NOT, unless we flip exactly the BD today (in which case I retract my "do not shoot" recommendation but will still request the target goes unannounced. The worst the scum can do if they don't have a BD is block the shot, and if they do they may as well have blocked one on a townie if the target is unannounced beforehand, which means other townies (read: TPRs) can act freely. The problem at hand is we don't know if scum do/don't have a BD, so the only way we'd be sure of the game status is if we do lynch someone who flips Bus Driver.

[Bingle]

Would you agree that bingle tends not to lie about mechanics regardless of alignment and get a second opinion there?

I'm not sure what the question is, but skitts should play her role like a vig in a closed setup.

She should shoot in her nullscum pool, not telegraph the shot (by claiming it in advance), and we should assume that she as town will be more likely to hit scum than random lynching.

Talking about who she should specifically kill is antitown, but she should definitely kill. Holstering is bad.

As to whether there's more likely more town power or not (BD/JOAT cases), I'm getting the feeling of a small scumteam, but that's by no means actionable information.

[Bingle]

Ah, I see the suggestion.

A50, holstering from skitts just lets the scumteam know they can use the theoretical BD as a strongman.

Skitts should be shooting a scumread, but not necessarily her strongest scumread, and she absolutely should not be claiming the shot in advance.

[skitter30]

A50, holstering from skitts just lets the scumteam know they can use the theoretical BD as a strongman.

can you eli5?

[Menalque]

Oh ffs I forgot about the rb

[Almost50]

A50, holstering from skitts just lets the scumteam know they can use the theoretical BD as a strongman.

Agreed, but it would still be just ONE kill (and the BD is one shot anyway, so giving them a strongman shot in exchange of saving a townie is worth it IMHO)

@skitter: Bingle is saying scum knowing you won't act can BD their intended NK with someone (in case the target had a Doctor on it) and then shoot the other person (which will now be the original intended target after the switch) while the Doctor would be actually protecting the other person 9now in the original target's slot after the switch)

[Almost50]

Oh ffs I forgot about the rb

It's ok. I forgot the BD at the start of the day. It's a confusing setup, especially to those who played C9++ before