Open 781: JK9++ Game Over!

[PenguinPower]

....ok

[PenguinPower]

I didn’t deserve that, but thank you Mena.

[skitter30]

i think mariar / ss is viable btw

[PenguinPower]

Still in lynch pool.

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

There's really no way he's groupscum here, he's sk at best and i think he's just town

Ss why didnt you vote gobble earlier?

I think ss voting gobble now, after defending him when he originally claimed sk, is scummy

+1, we still lynch gobbles today

I respect him trying to make a deal, but fundamentally he doesn’t have a town wincon and right now he’s in the weakest negotiating position.

He's in the weakest negotiating position... which means he's not a threat, right?

Since we can unilaterally make him lose, he has to do what we say; even though he says he won't be leashed, if a majority agrees to leash him, he'll have to follow or be lynched. That said, straight-up leashing is a bad idea because bus driver, but it seems perfectly fine to tell him to kill someone scummy and if he doesn't (or if you want to be harsh, if he doesn't hit scum) then we lynch him.

No, then we’re weaker because we’re getting further away from outnumbering the scum and he gets to coast another day because people want to try and flip their scumreads.

This sounds like empty rhetoric to me.

You're talking about him surviving another day as if it's automatically a bad thing. Is it? If we compare lynching him tomorrow to lynching him today, the only difference is that an extra player dies overnight. If that player is > rand scum, then it's good; otherwise, it's bad.

Then, if he killed scum, we can leave him alive one more day to put us back on odds without worrying about losing majority. If he killed town, we might have to lynch him-- and this gives him a powerful incentive to play along and try to hit his strongest scumread.

If you assume that his reads are better than random, there is at the very least a reasonable argument for leaving him alive.

if he thinks you'll shoot town he gets another person closer to lylo without having to do anything

And anyone who wants to lynch him might be scum who thinks he'll shoot scum or take out a future mislynch. What's your point?

There is NO INCENTIVE for the turkey to kill scum because that LITERALLY is playing against his wincon

Like in the world where we mislynch every day and the turkey saves us by shooting 3 scum in a row — what does he think happens, we go “yeah, thanks turkey, we just won’t lynch you so that you can win bc you were so helpful to town” lmao

Saying "there is no incentive to kill three scum" is not the same as saying "there is no incentive to kill one scum."

He has a very real incentive to kill one scum-- we lynch him if he doesn't. Whatever minuscule chance he has to win, it comes from doing whatever we tell him so he doesn't get autolynched.

His progression on gobble doesnt make sense and i dont get why he's voting him now

Because why not vote him when he first claimed sk

If you're sk why dont you just claim vig
If you're groupscum why dont you just claim literally anything else

Are you scum skitt because I’m really not sure that town!you misses the contextual difference here :/

I feel like you’re intentionally sidestepping this by focusing on gobbles btw skitt

I think if he's sk he doesnt claim vt now, and i think if ss wanted to lynch the sk he ought to have when gobble claimed

I'm not sidestepping the issue, i'm being p clear that i think ss is scum taking advantage of thr gobble mess to revitalize that wagon

I just like — if you think that’s what SS is doing then I still don’t see why you would be confused in the first place by SS voting gobbles now but not then?

Because the timing of the vote is bad

I literally just said scum would try to use this to gef a free lynch when they want one and ss's vote looks like just that to me

[skitter30]

i really just want ss and lilith to like ~take real stances on something~

[PenguinPower]

That seems like a familiar comment.

[Menalque]

It probably is. I'm a lot more likely to appear invested in things as scum.

I think S_S has said before as town that he appears scummy as scum and this is often called out. Therefore it’s kinda odd that he’s also saying he’s more likely to appear invested as scum when I think people who appear invested are more likely to look town

Probably the same things town is doing at this point.

This is sort of a cop out and I would also find it odd for him to think this 660 posts in when I kind of think scum would be starting to do not town things. Take his point about scum trying to look like they’re doing the same things as town tho

do u not scumhunt anymore?

Not on D1.

Provably false, there are multiple games where S_S has done plenty of scumhunting on D1 (first that comes to mind now is tris’ mininormal but I can find others very easily)

No, then we’re weaker because we’re getting further away from outnumbering the scum and he gets to coast another day because people want to try and flip their scumreads.

This sounds like empty rhetoric to me.
[snip]

This just felt like a weird dismissal

And I honestly feel like it's kind of ridiculous that I'm being pushed for calling gobble scum when that doesn't suit any agenda (if he's VT then I just look mega bad on his flip, if he's my partner and I'm bussing then lol, if he's SK then he probably shoots me if I fail to get him lynched), and sticks out like a sore thumb. Last I checked I wasn't in the habit of drawing attention to myself for no reason as scum.

Like seriously.

The support for gobble groupscum is not there. I knew it wasn't going to be there. People are not thinking critically about the claim and retraction and instead just going "oh maybe he's VT who messed up" as if that makes any sense.

WHAT IS MY ANGLE HERE AS SCUM?

Please answer that. What am I trying to accomplish as scum, knowing that people are very likely not going to listen to me, because they never do?

Honestly the two posts that make me most think S_S could be town. But like I do think that if the alternative was likely to be him, and he was being pushed hard by people (like me!) prior to the retraction, there’s an incentive to be on the defending side while I’m pushing gobbles for claiming SK but then to switch to making sure the lynch goes through once gobbles starts looking townier. But like, I do kinda think the indignation could be town

I also really think they give the lie to this, because town S_S pretty definitively does scumhunt on D1 and this now sounds much more like an excuse for not having scumhunted than it fits into his meta of not letting people push him into stuff

Would you like me to find myself saying I don't scumhunt on D1 as town? I'm sure I can.

It's not literally true, of course, since it depends on the situation. But my philosophy is very much to try to find town in the early stages and then put things together mechanically from there.

There’s a difference between him saying he doesn’t scumhunt as town on D1 and whether he actually doesn’t. I don’t think he ever did find this for me, although in fairness I’m not sure I actually asked him to find it for me

S_S what would your read have been on lilith if she’d entered the game hard shitpushing you?

Null probably, given that she did that to me last time as scum and I townread her for it, so it's completely WIFOM as to whether she'd do it again.

This seems weird to me as I’d say that if someone had just entered a game shitpushing me then them doing the opposite the next game would actually twig me more as I wouldn’t take the exact same approach to someone twice. He’s not being unreasonable here it just seems off to me to be this null on her shifting radically in how she’s approaching him

I may not have an accurate conception of scum-Menalque.

But I don't think the scum-Menalque I know gets indignant about not being labeled a scum mastermind, when doing so directly opens him up to suspicion. Possible exception is if it's his partner's list he is objecting to.

One of the other things that made me feel he was kind of townier but that might be because he’s saying accurate things about me

True, but I think that in this scenario there’s also the mitigating factor of your prior read on lilith making it hard for you to suddenly shift to bussing if you were on a “mutual townreads” course earlier on.

I don't think it would be hard for me to shift to bussing, I never had lilith as more than a light townread and they were based on very early things.

Oh I realise now I wanted one that was like a couple before this but I thought his “I can’t be bothered to play the game because I’m annoyed with what turkey did” seemed like more excuses to not have to try very hard and was scummy, especially because I don’t think what the turkey did was actually that bad and I’m totally over it by now and I would expect most town players to have a similar trajectory and feeling about it (also no one else has made a big deal of it kind of confirming that for me?)

[Menalque]

That seems like a familiar comment.

PP/skitt team confirmed?

[Menalque]

I didn’t deserve that, but thank you Mena.

I’d be lying if I said that one was intentional

[Menalque]

How come I get slapped on the wrist for trying to drive a wagon but now suddenly it's 2 days in and it's a okay? W/e I lost my right to call reads atm since I'm 0/2 and I need to flip a scum for people to listen to me so I'd do it. Have people explained why S_S that doesn't boil down to (Poe read)

Eh? I have no idea what you mean. When did you get slapped on the wrist for trying to drive a wagon? Also there’s a load of stuff in skitt’s ISO I think if you wanna look there, she’s been the one most consistently pushing him

Also Maria can you respond to the first half of this please? About when you got slapped on the wrist for trying to drive a wagon

[Menalque]

I’d really like if penguin or Maria would vote S_S tbh

[Menalque]

Datisi could do it too if she’s up and stalking the thread

*looks into spy camera datisi is using on the thread*

[Bingle]

So am I and I'm not being wagoned.

You offer less info than SS.

Maria’s posts about them not interacting while she’s been largely completely absent and her soft defense of SS are pretty much the perfect example of why I think they have S/S equity.

[ofrhz]

VOTE COUNT 2.4

lilith2013 [4]:

Menalque [2433], Blake Belladonna [2720], MariaR [2893], PenguinPower [2924]

-- [L-2]

Something_Smart [4]:

skitter30 [2389], Firebringer [2424], Bingle [2740], Almost50 [2887]

-- [L-2]

Not Voting [3]:

Something_Smart, lilith2013, Datisi [2806]

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to hammer.
Day 2 ends in

(expired on 2020-06-30 01:30:00)

Game Notes:

skitter30 regular v/la Fridays and Saturdays

[Datisi]

So if you don’t think you have a particular reason to think that pool is wrong and that you shouldn’t be townreading everyone else, do you think maybe the best approach is to just flip a couple of slots within there and then go from there

yes but i don't rest easy until the game is over and y'all get to listen to my complaints

~

lilith and SS has one scum in it at most. I am pretty sure. The question is if Lilith is pocketed or SS.
I am leaning Lilith is pocketed.

SO LETS LYNCH SS FOR THE WIN PEOPLE.

MAFIA = EZ

hi warmpupper do you have reads

~

Datisi could do it too if she’s up and stalking the thread

*looks into spy camera datisi is using on the thread*

hi sorry i was asleep

~

oh god 2964

[Firebringer]

hi warmpupper do you have reads

ofc.

[Datisi]

will you tell me

[Firebringer]

not until u accept my myspace friends request.

[Datisi]

[Menalque]

Hey datisi u there now

[Datisi]

i am around but i need to peel carrots or something so replies may be slow

what is the up

[Menalque]

Can u please put a wagon to L-1 so we can get a claim?

[Datisi]

which one do you want?

[PenguinPower]

pretty sure s_S given his comments.