Mini Normal 2141: The World of Tomorrow [Game over!]

[VP Baltar]

@VP: the night you took out R2R I was sooo intrigued how you’d play that scenario. Whether you’d kill the tracker or opt to kill hellbooks and argue R2R fake claimed tracker. I figured there was a decent chance you’d do that (50/50) where the more obvious choice is to kill the tracker. That’s why I did tag R2R, to potentially get R2R if he was fake claiming and claimed he tracked me. But realized if he was fake claiming, he would’ve just said he tracked you and you killed hellbooks. Did killing hellbooks over R2R and trying to say R2R was fake claiming in lylo cross your mind of how to play that? I was kinda terrified of a scenario where R2R was going to survive to lylo basically being cleared from day 3 onward.

The thought did cross my mind to try to say he was faking tracker, but it felt like I had lower odds of convincing you on that than maybe swaying hellbrooks. Would you have actually been suspicious of r2r?

I do think the setup was maybe a little unbalanced! I need to read that review thread after work.

And I totally agree with you that we goofed with the Nauci kill over Blair! Blair's copping was a huge setback for us early in the game.

[VP Baltar]

Thanks for playing, everyone! I was really happy to see this game go to down to the final 3 and I felt like everyone played to the best of their ability and never gave up. It was a pleasure to mod this.

Thank you for modding! It was a really fun game

[VP Baltar]

But before I do:
@VP: you pointed to my poor voting record and god awful reads... Gamma, Dunn, and VP, very well played!

I was definitely exaggerating your record to try and survive. I think you actually gave a lot of helpful analysis . I was listing you as a town read all game because that is what I would have done if I was town.

[Gammagooey]

gg everyone! VPB was great but the tracker claim at 5 players left made it really difficult for him to pull through

I don't think I really liked the disloyal fruit vendor in the setup - yeah the tracker can theoretically track them when they target a scum to clear them/confirm a scum, but most of the time all of its value relies on scum not expecting it and claiming a fruit when it's given to them, which mostly just screws over scum players that aren't very well versed in the possible roles/modifications that MS can have - Dunn correctly thought it might be an option and made it effectively useless this game despite it hitting a correct target. I think a voyeur or motion detector would have been a bit better, or maybe even just a regular fruit vendor (though that might be too many confirmable roles when scum has just one member left unless the tracker was downgraded to an X-shot tracker or something like that).

I know my play was mediocre day 1 but I didn't think it was bad enough to expect both investigative roles on me n1 >_> I was seriously considering killing Blair n1 and really should have. On the 'bright' side I got pretty overwhelmed with work on what was I think around mid/late d3 and after and couldn't keep up with much past that point, so at least I didn't wind up dragging my team down lategame.

And thanks for the great modding Umlaut!

[midwaybear]

For some reason, I had a scum read on VPB, but it seems like you guys think that is unrealistic

YUH

[midwaybear]

well played everyone. I definitely should have tried harder, but congrats to town despite me jobbing.
Good job to VPB and maf. I thought mavs was potentially scum over you even in LYLO

[VP Baltar]

I thought mavs was potentially scum over you even in LYLO

I take back every bad thing I ever said about you.

[ready2rock]

@VP: the night you took out R2R I was sooo intrigued how you’d play that scenario. Whether you’d kill the tracker or opt to kill hellbooks and argue R2R fake claimed tracker. I figured there was a decent chance you’d do that (50/50) where the more obvious choice is to kill the tracker. That’s why I did tag R2R, to potentially get R2R if he was fake claiming and claimed he tracked me. But realized if he was fake claiming, he would’ve just said he tracked you and you killed hellbooks. Did killing hellbooks over R2R and trying to say R2R was fake claiming in lylo cross your mind of how to play that? I was kinda terrified of a scenario where R2R was going to survive to lylo basically being cleared from day 3 onward.

The thought did cross my mind to try to say he was faking tracker, but it felt like I had lower odds of convincing you on that than maybe swaying hellbrooks. Would you have actually been suspicious of r2r?

I do think the setup was maybe a little unbalanced! I need to read that review thread after work.

And I totally agree with you that we goofed with the Nauci kill over Blair! Blair's copping was a huge setback for us early in the game.

It also crossed my mind that you might try to pull a gambit like this (trying to say that I'm fake claiming), but I think the way you played it was probably the smartest

gg everyone. Haven't played many games on the site, but this one's definitely been my favorite so far. Thanks to Umlaut for modding!

[Blair]

Congratulations town, and well played mafia! Thanks for hosting, Umlaut, this one of my favorite games and a great playerlist.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Scum team: why did you kill me? I wasn't really "on the mark" really.

[midwaybear]

because you're quick

[mavsfan41]

@VP: not sure I would’ve bought the R2R fake tracker. However, there are better odds of me buying that than R2R flipping tracking upon a NK which clears hellbooks completely imo. I.E. a R2R flip clears hellbooks but a hellbooks flip doesn’t necessarily clear an R2R tracker. So I would say that there are better odds of me buying a R2R fake claim of tracker than hellbooks being ninja even although the odds might for from like 1% of a hellbooks ninja to a 4% R2R fake claim tracker. You did a damn good job solidifying a town read during day 3 and I didn’t care to re-evaluate it until the very last second.

@Blair: your dead post thread (121 & 122) make just too much sense. Kinda feel like an absolute idiot for overlooking that. Thought it was weird he had Dunn as a scum read where I didn’t and I ended up flipping and voting Dunn before he did having previously been pretty locked into a Town!Dunn read from day 2 events...

[CantHateAPuppy]

great game guys, thanks for hosting umlaut and thanks to everyone for playing! this was one of the most fun games i've played in a long time

[CantHateAPuppy]

also, between thread and dead thread blair made 3 checks and hit 3 scum o_O

[VP Baltar]

@Scum team: why did you kill me? I wasn't really "on the mark" really.

Honestly, just your unpredictability! It was making it harder to control the flow of the day and I didn't feel like I was going to be able to get you mislynches, so it made sense to take you off the board as we were getting closer to endgame. Could have been a mistake, as lots of people seemed to have disagreed!

[LicketyQuickety]

great game guys, thanks for hosting umlaut and thanks to everyone for playing! this was one of the most fun games i've played in a long time

I am actually quite proud of myself that I came around to seeing you as Town. It's not easy to flip a read like that, but you did an excellent job of showing a Town mindset.

[CantHateAPuppy]

it's just the picture, because it's true what they say! you just can't lynch a puppy

[Umlaut]

If you liked this game, you should know I've got another mini normal in the queue and I'm accepting pre-ins! PM if you're interested.

As Puppy pointed out, the accuracy of PRs in this game was pretty surprising. Dunnstral got targeted

twice

and likely would have gotten away with it if not for the second quickhammer. I think that was a miscalculation, but a reasonable one since in my experience policy lynches usually don't go through.

On the Disloyal Fruit Vendor role: I intended it to be a fairly unreliable investigative role, and in fact it succeeded at being unreliable. I actually added Mafia daytalk partially so that they could decide together how to handle receiving fruit, but amusingly enough it was Dunnstral himself who chose not to claim it, when the others were saying maybe he should. The role did turn out to have

some

value, in that Mavs might well have been lynched had he claimed VT. I honestly didn't even realize the potential interaction with the Tracker until after the game had started, and had to double-check with the reviewers about it when I did.

[CantHateAPuppy]

traffic analyst was really neat, without any other PMs it was like a cop that couldn't get the last scum. (although no cop would ever live that long tbh)

three strongmen was a cool idea too, maybe scum could have done more with this. if one of them had breadcrumbed a doc claim early it would have been believed. not sure if gamma could have avoided being lynched that way but a doc claim would have been believed until the 2nd strongman flip i think

[VP Baltar]

Umlaut, are you able to open the review PT? I'd like to see it.

I still don't quite understand the balance. I think our roles definitely implied the possibility of a tracker (since we had to declare the specific killer), but claiming a doc as Puppy suggests would have been a move that MAYBE bought one day. I sort of assumed there had to be some kind of actual protective role out there, so it would have forced a 1v1 to fake it. It felt like a bit of a red herring to me and the scum team couldn't do much to protect against town PRs.

[ready2rock]

I also like the disloyal fruit vendor because it was such a bizarre role that had us second guessing it. I don't think it was until my thought process post at 2343 that I had actually convinced myself that he was telling the truth, and had it not been for other circumstances, he might've gotten mislynched for it being too convenient

[Dunnstral]

Yeah, even if you had played your role correctly I would have lied and said I never got fruit, as I had a suspicion that nothing good would come from claiming it as I voiced in the mafia pt

[Dunnstral]

I think the tracker was supposed to be watching the fruit vendor the day after the claim - doesn't that confirm whether or not the fruit gets sent, thus confirming the results?

[Umlaut]

I can't personally unlock the review, but I've posted in the thread saying it can be unlocked.

Honestly I thought the implication with three Strongmen would be that there

wasn't

any sort of protective role. It would be a bit mean to give someone a role like Doctor if they couldn't actually heal anyone -- the sort of thing that's more fun for the mod than it is for the player. The intention with three Strongmen was just to signal that you had zero risk of a kill failing.

[Nauci]

@VP: the night you took out R2R I was sooo intrigued how you’d play that scenario. Whether you’d kill the tracker or opt to kill hellbooks and argue R2R fake claimed tracker. I figured there was a decent chance you’d do that (50/50) where the more obvious choice is to kill the tracker. That’s why I did tag R2R, to potentially get R2R if he was fake claiming and claimed he tracked me. But realized if he was fake claiming, he would’ve just said he tracked you and you killed hellbooks. Did killing hellbooks over R2R and trying to say R2R was fake claiming in lylo cross your mind of how to play that? I was kinda terrified of a scenario where R2R was going to survive to lylo basically being cleared from day 3 onward.

The thought did cross my mind to try to say he was faking tracker, but it felt like I had lower odds of convincing you on that than maybe swaying hellbrooks. Would you have actually been suspicious of r2r?

I do think the setup was maybe a little unbalanced! I need to read that review thread after work.

And I totally agree with you that we goofed with the Nauci kill over Blair! Blair's copping was a huge setback for us early in the game.

It was like my first game where I got to be VT in soooooooo loooooong

Am mad about being the n1 kill still