Open 781: JK9++ Game Over!

[PenguinPower]

wooo

[Something_Smart]

Now let me finish my work lol

[PenguinPower]

I....will...not...vote...

[Menalque]

So what you’re saying is you have enough time to be up to date with exactly who’s voting you and to what level but not enough time to make a claim?

I'm going to write up my thoughts on the game and if I claim before then I doubt I'll get a chance to do it. Think of it as leverage.

Why is it that I’m picturing you in a swivel chair stroking a white cat as you post this?

[ofrhz]

VOTE COUNT 2.5

Something_Smart [4]:

Firebringer [2424], Bingle [2740], Almost50 [2887], Datisi [2988]

-- [L-2]

lilith2013 [3]:

Blake Belladonna [2720], MariaR [2893], PenguinPower [2924]

Not Voting [4]:

Something_Smart, lilith2013, skitter30 [2990], Menalque [3060]

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to hammer.
Day 2 ends in

(expired on 2020-06-30 01:30:00)

Game Notes:

skitter30 regular v/la Fridays and Saturdays

[Menalque]

Also, counteroffer: claim now or we lynch you without the claim?

[Menalque]

Oh

I missed the end of last page lmao

[Menalque]

why

Idk it just felt like good jammin’ which I’m not sure I remember having had with scum!pingu

[Something_Smart]

Why is it that I’m picturing you in a swivel chair stroking a white cat as you post this?

How did you get access to my webcam :0

Okay writing up now. Thank you for having patience.

[Something_Smart]

Okay so first of all I want to apologize to the game. Regardless of what Menalque says is or isn't plausible, my enjoyment of a game can actually be killed pretty easily, and I've actually had pretty much no wim for the entirety of D2.

The gamestate as a whole I think quite frankly has not at any point in the game been healthy. Gobble and lilith and I were all pushed pretty much entirely for being low-hanging fruit. Menalque's case on me is riddled with assumptions, generalizations, and just poor critical thinking in general. In a vacuum I would say it's scummy but I do think everything else about the way he's handled this game is extremely genuine.

The case on lilith is similarly tenuous, and while I almost certainly should be voting my counterwagon here, I'm not sure that it would actually be better for the game if she got lynched. If she's scum, she's probably being bussed or I'd be long since dead, but if she flipped the attention would probably go to my wagon.

Anyway. I definitely don't have a read on everybody. Some people have just slipped by my radar time after time, and some people I've paid attention to but wouldn't trust myself to read at this point in the game.

Skitter is town, because she doesn't have suicidal tendencies.

Menalque is town. He's extremely interactive, and every move is pushing the game closer to potentially being solved.

PP is leantown. His posting today has been pretty dynamic and it seems like he really does care about how things go down. When I've seen him as scum (at least Alisae v. Pine but there may have been others I'm forgetting) he faded into the background, pretty much always.

A50 is leantown. Very hard one to explain. I feel like with all his "I might not be the hider, but IF I AM..." bullshit, he's genuine reveling in trying to troll scum and not worrying about looking weird.

Maria and Blake are null. I know better than to think I can get a handle on these two very crafty players when I'm not invested in the game.

Firebringer and Datisi are null. I don't think I can recall a single thing of relevance either one has done aside from voting me.

Lilith is null. I can't in good faith extricate my read on her from my colored view of the gamestate, and I can understand how this gamestate came about with her as either alignment. Her early posting was towny. Her later posting wasn't. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt and say that she could be town shutting down under pressure, because I've been known to do that and she hasn't played town much since coming back. But I can't commit to a read on her.

Bingle is a scumlean. I know it's stale, but it's the only scum lead I have and it's better than nothing. It feels like he's trying to control the gamestate while keeping his distance. He jumped on my wagon earlier citing skitter's dubious reasoning and wouldn't engage me on it; he's challenged my mechanics but doesn't seem interested in talking it out. In other words, he's distant, and doesn't really seem to be engaging.

[skitter30]

no hammer yet plz

[skitter30]

ss part of why i was scumreading you this game is that you went after the low-hanging fruit in gobbles at just the times i thought scum would, at just the times i thought it was p obvious his actions didn't come from groupscum

[skitter30]

also i'm sorry if i contributed to your lack of enjoyment

[Something_Smart]

ss part of why i was scumreading you this game is that you went after the low-hanging fruit in gobbles at just the times i thought scum would, at just the times i thought it was p obvious his actions didn't come from groupscum

Even though he wasn't groupscum, I disagree that that was obvious. The political aspect of the SK makes claiming SK definitely something that scum would consider doing to save their skin, and gobble is definitely the type of player who would consider fakeclaiming SK as scum (as evidenced by the fact that he did the even weirder play of claiming it as TOWN).

The timing of the retraction was when it seemed to be a foregone conclusion among most people that he was gonna be the lynch but they were going to scumhunt for a while first, which is pretty much the worst-case scenario for him in that spot (as scum he would have been hoping to derail and confuse the game), so he claimed VT to either try to avoid the lynch entirely or bait it onto him immediately.

To me, that made more sense than claiming SK as VT, something which surely means you'll have to be lynched at some point, and people aren't going to take you seriously, and town PR's might be distracted.

[Something_Smart]

also i'm sorry if i contributed to your lack of enjoyment

Nah it's not your fault. It's mostly gobble's, I think.

[Something_Smart]

The other thing about gobble is that my only experience with an SK fakeclaim and retraction was Kaede in this game, who claimed SK and later retracted to VT. I was the only one to (correctly) call her groupscum (it was a multiball game but people didn't know that at the time), and she ended up shooting me because she thought I must be the other scumteam slipping knowledge of multiball.

[Something_Smart]

Er, she may have retracted to vig.

But the point still stands.

[skitter30]

ok a couple of things:
- when he retracted the sk claim you thought he was groupscum or you thought he was sk?
- he retracted when the wagon was at l-5 (and it had been at l-1) so to me if h were scum retracting ... like it was a weird time to retract because the plan had worked and people were giving him some space

[Something_Smart]

The thing is like, I don't see why it's more scum-motivated to go after someone you think is VT than to go after someone you think is SK. If gobble really were an SK he would be a huge thorn in scum's side and that's why I wanted to keep him around, whereas once he's retracted, scum could be secure in the knowledge that he would have to die at some point, and wouldn't have a reason to stick their neck out and try to lynch him immediately.

[skitter30]

The other thing about gobble is that my only experience with an SK fakeclaim and retraction was Kaede in this game, who claimed SK and later retracted to VT. I was the only one to (correctly) call her groupscum (it was a multiball game but people didn't know that at the time), and she ended up shooting me because she thought I must be the other scumteam slipping knowledge of multiball.

ok i think this would have been a useful thing to know and to explain why you reacted that way and your explanation makes a lot more sense in this context

[Menalque]

Menalque's case on me is riddled with assumptions, generalizations, and just poor critical thinking in general.

Err, like what?

[Menalque]

I’m not asking for a point by point refutation but I would like you to say what you think was generally wrong with my thinking there

[skitter30]

ok i maybe don't want to lynch ss anymore
now the trick is to figure out if ss v lilith contains {any} scum and how their alignments explain the weird/stalled gamestate

[Something_Smart]

- when he retracted the sk claim you thought he was groupscum or you thought he was sk?

Groupscum. I thought I was pretty clear on that?

- he retracted when the wagon was at l-5 (and it had been at l-1) so to me if h were scum retracting ... like it was a weird time to retract because the plan had worked and people were giving him some space

My impression of the gamestate was that people were moving off of him to focus on other people and get more reads before switching back and killing him, though it may have just seemed that that was the case because I was annoyed that I wanted to keep him alive and people seemed to not to be listening to my arguments.

But regardless, that doesn't actually matter for his motivation-- no matter what his alignment was, the only possible reason to retract to VT would be because he didn't want to be lynched for being an SK, so he must have been feeling pressure, even if it wasn't really there. Retracting when under no pressure makes as little sense as VT or SK as it does as groupscum.

[skitter30]

VOTE: mariar