Mini Normal 2148 (Post Game)

[geraintm]

Could be trying to deflect it also so as it doesn't look like a counterwagon

I'm right here....you could ask me

[votato]

hot take: its crayons, geraintm and NM

[Not_Mafia]

That is a hot take

[Jake The Wolfie]

"I'm telling ya, I don't know who who painted ya walls red, Jake!"

Vote Count 1.9

Dunnstral (4):

DoctorPepper, farside22, HK 50, [notscience]

Battle Mage (3):

Not_Mafia, Green Crayons, stungun0404

votato (2):

Malakittens, Battle Mage

Green Crayons (1):

votato

notscience (1):

geraintm

geraintm (1):

bob3141

Not_Mafia (1):

Dunnstral

Not voting (0):

---

Mod Notes:

Majority is 7 players.

Day 1 has begun and will end in (expired on 2020-06-23 07:23:04).
notscience is V/LA until Sunday, and has handed their vote to Malakittens.
farside22 is V/LA for (expired on 2020-06-19 13:49:13)[/area]

[Jake The Wolfie]

stungun0404 has requested an additional day to be added onto the clock. The new end of day is in (expired on 2020-06-23 07:23:04).

[Green Crayons]

Could be trying to deflect it also so as it doesn't look like a counterwagon

I'm right here....you could ask me

Why is your vote on someone who is hella not suspicious.

[votato]

Could be trying to deflect it also so as it doesn't look like a counterwagon

I'm right here....you could ask me

Why is your vote on someone who is hella not suspicious.

why is notsci so town?

[HK 50]

(Please be aware that there are approximately 13 pages since I last picked up, so in the interest of not clogging the thread I'm not talking about every post. If there is something I missed that you are dying to know my take on, let me know. Otherwise I'm just getting what I feel is important)

Spoiler: stungun votato interaction

Lol, that's funny enough to get me to move off your wagon

VOTE: Votato

probably town? Dunno, there are mostly just questions coming from hk and not much analysis

Not a bad point. Would like to see HK produce an analysis when they get the chance.

probably town? Dunno, there are mostly just questions coming from hk and not much analysis

I will say, I don't really like that your vote is on HK if you think he is probably town... we are past RVS.

@Votato, who do you think is most likely scum between geraintm, Dunnstral and Green Crayons?

If you give me a good enough response to this, I may be moved to vote elsewhere, so I really want to see some serious thought applied here.

@Votato:

are you apathetic as scum?

generally im very active as scum. in my completed games so far that's very much been my meta. will have an update soon that we can discuss. but as scum i'm always engaged on day 1 at least. as town im frequently bored day 1 and dont really pick up my posting much until later in the game. day 1 sucks, but it mostly sucks when you're town.

i do much prefer playing as scum.

@stungun, im not sure that id say any of them are scum. none of them have really posted enough for me to get reads on them. my gut would say geraintm? i liked the case someone made there. wasnt that you?

i can point to a few towngames where i was very lurky day 1 until pressure mounted on me. day 1 pressure on me is good to get me active and posting, but it isnt so good for my reads. when im allowed to just lurk and observe for a bit, my reads tend to be very good. i will also say that im still figuring out how to approach day 1, and so my playstyle probably alters quite a bit from game to game.

notsci is an interesting slot FMPOV. notsci may have a slight bias towards scumreading me. especially when i lurk. so that made me initially townread notsci's push on me. but im also somewhat convinced by people attacking notsci for the lazy vote. but the lazy vote could again be explained by a bias towards scumreading me.

Votato, I am going to sort through your meta to see if I confirm what you said about your activity levels.

In the meantime, would you be willing to vote geriantm?

Reason I ask is I am willing to go there, but it seems like there is a lack of push, and that makes it difficult to get anything going there.

uh id have to take a quick look back over the ISO and your(?) case, but i think so. you want me to do that?

my scumgames are animals upick (probably not that helpful since i was caught super early and hardbussed by the whole scumteam), and micro 938: butterfly mafia.
newbie 2006 is a game where i lurked and basically got killed for it as town. there are others but id have to go look to see which ones they are.

Yeah, at the moment that is the only wagon which I would really like switching to.

You were town in this game and were very active at the start (22 posts on the first day and then a big analysis immediately starting the next day), which contradicts the activity argument.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11763957

And so did the newbie 2006 game you cited, you had 12 posts on the first day the game was available.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11902283

This game, you had 3 posts and then disappeared for about 3 days, until a wagon formed on you.

While you may be fairly active in some of your scum games, this evidence does not suggest that in your town games you are always lurking at the start. Thus, I don't think this initial analysis into your gameplay is very alignment-indicative, as it seems you are breaking pattern regardless of alignment.

OK, when you return, you know who I would like you to look into. In the meantime, I have no reason to move off of you because I honestly cannot verify from your meta that you are telling the truth.

Just noting that the vote on Votato is now L-2.

Be careful adding another vote, because votato could self-hammer, or someone else could before we get the chance to hear back from Votato, ending the day phase sooner than preferable.

so i painstakingly went over geraintm's entire ISO. there isnt even a an attempt to pretend to scumhunt. that slot definitely deserves pressure, but he is so brazen that I'm guessing town over scum actually. maybe. i dunno, its worth voting there and forcing some effort out of the slot.

The dunn thing does actually seem like a plausible scumslip.

*votato pushes BM a bit*

GC has a fair point, geraintm is still voting not science based off RVS reasoning, which is just a very lazy vote park that is not seemingly going to get us anywhere this day phase. I'm not real fond of it.

If he's town, it's as though he is playing a scared game, and I also don't really like that. If he is scum, it makes sense; he wants to stay in the background.

@GC: if you had to guess, what do you think geraintm's alignment is?

Does anyone have experience with scum Dunnstral? I have only played with town Dunnstral as scum to my recollection (2 times).

I know that as town he is not the hardest player to sort, but he still is a little bit tricky. He is easier to sort than nm for sure.

Also, he might get easier by the day, but he also might not. So I am not totally against a lynch there, but would just prefer to keep him in for two reasons. One is he is one of the few players I have experience with, so I might be able to read him better as the game progresses. And two, I do not really find what he has done so far to be super scummy, and if anything the push against him gives me a slight intuition he might be town. I could be wrong there, and I would like to see him post more, but I am not super suspicious.

I do think it is very likely, however, that if one Votato/Dunn is scum, the other is not, and should be assumed to be town. I just don't see them as connected, as votato has made very little mention of Dunn in his posts and Dunn throwing votato out of the blue as a scum partner to someone... wouldn't seem like the smartest plan if they were scum partners? I mean, that's a little bold, drawing that much attention to you

and

your partner?

Stungun's interaction and handling of Votato was the first thing that popped out to me, mainly due to the formers actions. There are points of the interaction where I doubt the genuineness of the votato push by them was for pressure, and rather, was a set up to further a push on germ.

First is post 325, which introduces the lead in read progression on genermitn. I dont mind this in isolation or from part of votato's post 324 since votato was a bit more vocal about the slot. I could see Town!stungun attempting to do a reaction test to see if votato hard commits to scum reading germ. As a form of survival for example. However, stungun already knew that votato liked their case on germ from the same post (324) meaning such an test would already be flawed. For votato to commit to the scum read, all he would have to do is analyze what part of the case he agrees or disagrees with. Its 326 and 328 though that begins to draw the line between a bad test and stungun having different motives.

In order to understand why 326 and 328 are problematic, we need to look at votato's 350. I know, it may seem werid to prove the past with the future, but in this case the later actions of stungun helps highlight the importance of the eariler ones. 350 is votato's analysis of germ. Which even he admits to farside is wishy washy. What's intresting about this post is that stungun post after this doesn't remotely try to analyze this and instead voices support for germ. Remember, stungun wanted to see critical thinking from votato and more importantly just had a reason to doubt votato further over concluding that the meta defense was NAI. I would conclude if somebody i accused of needing to make more logical content made a washy analysis and went on to self admit it, that they may infact warrant further analysis. That wasn't the case. Coupled with posts like 326 and 328, I dont feel stungun really cared about reading votato and wanted to simply push germ, giving the illusion they cared about sorting votato while trying to convince him to hop on. Posts after the meta case, 339, also support this.

Further, I can see why scum!stungun would want to have votato on that wagon: scapegoat. Assuming scum!stungun and town!germ., votato would of look horrendous if the mislynch went through having hoped on while being pressured. This buys mafia another free lynch potentially without much effort. Depending on if someone like Dunn

All in all, I dont believe the votato interaction by stungun was done for what was claimed. I wouldnt be surprised if Dunnstral is scum and stungun picked to pressure other LHFesk players in a bid to protect Dunnstral.

(Catching up)

[HK 50]

I'm on mobile as well, so for all you grammar nazis out there: hail my shiny metal ass.

[HK 50]

I also remember why I hate reading Battle Mage's posts.

[Green Crayons]

why is notsci so town?

I liked his explanation of his Mala suspicions, his defense of his votato vote, and his reaction to stun/GC.

[farside22]

ill be shocked if there isnt scum in {farside, dunn}

You should vote dunn

You are still ignoring dunn contradiction why?

I think GC is scummier and has more contradictions and more of what I find to be a scummy agenda. Will post more on that soon.

Can you explain what contradictions you found?

[farside22]

SG is a town read. I read 455 so you can ignore my question. I can't say I don't like your post or see where your coming from. If I stated my gut read was strong with Dunn over GC would you understand?
Probably not, people never understand stubborn players. Lets see. I will say one thing I disagreed with and the tone of GC is normal for that type of player. I know when I scum read someone and no one is listening I get pretty bitching in my posting style (apparently that is scummy to player, which is news to me). But what it boils down to is sometimes, like for me I feel so sure a player is scum I literally want to reach inside the computer and shake players who are ignoring what I see and I'm saying. Also people change there reads tend to look more town (maybe why people scum read me when I tunnel so much).
Where as Dunn hasn't explained his contradiction about Mala or explained further any scum reads. In my view players that explain less have less to get caught in and tend to flip scum.

nope. i have the same read on you that stungun does. your posts are throwing shade everywhere without committing to a push or really attacking anyone.

This is reading way too buddyish. I also wonder why you didn't pick a side between me vs dunn.


Stopping here. I'm not feeling to fad, I got some sleepy medicine in my system but I'll try to be back and read more later today.

[votato]

i havent picked a side in you vs dunn because i could buy both of you as scum, so im waiting to see how things shake out.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Currently searching for a replacement of Batte Mage.
As a note: Please keep replacement requests in Private Messages.

[notscience]

Why is there still an rvs cote 10 days in is a good question

[HK 50]

Taking a break for an hour. Starting to fall into scumthreaditious

[bob3141]

woah, Canyons is not letting this drop. I am not sure what to make of this *right now* but I want to keep it in mind for later in the game when we know more about canyons and Battle Mage/their replacement.

it seems overly forced

So germa your first real read is to say that green isn't letting his BM read go. And that it feels forced. But what about it feels forced to you? And the fact your implying its something he should drop. Does that mean you think greens push itself is scummy or just misguided?

So what is your read on both green and BM?

Now at the moment my gut feeling on green is whether right or wrong on BM, greens read does feel genuine. As I'm not surprised a fellow townie wouldnt drop his read if he thinks it has not properly been addressed. In another game I got exasperated when a player I was sure was scum kept dodging my questions. And everyone else was just ignoring it.

[geraintm]

Could be trying to deflect it also so as it doesn't look like a counterwagon

I'm right here....you could ask me

Why is your vote on someone who is hella not suspicious.

Because I placed a random vote and I have not found anywhere better to move it to yet.

[Not_Mafia]

Could be trying to deflect it also so as it doesn't look like a counterwagon

I'm right here....you could ask me

Why is your vote on someone who is hella not suspicious.

Because I placed a random vote and I have not found anywhere better to move it to yet.

BM

[geraintm]

woah, Canyons is not letting this drop. I am not sure what to make of this *right now* but I want to keep it in mind for later in the game when we know more about canyons and Battle Mage/their replacement.

it seems overly forced

So germa your first real read is to say that green isn't letting his BM read go. And that it feels forced. But what about it feels forced to you? And the fact your implying its something he should drop. Does that mean you think greens push itself is scummy or just misguided?

So what is your read on both green and BM?

Now at the moment my gut feeling on green is whether right or wrong on BM, greens read does feel genuine. As I'm not surprised a fellow townie wouldnt drop his read if he thinks it has not properly been addressed. In another game I got exasperated when a player I was sure was scum kept dodging my questions. And everyone else was just ignoring it.

Felt forced because it was too strong for any day 1 read. No one should feel that strongly on day 1 about anything. Means nothing about battle mage alignment. May mean nothing about crayons. But I wanted to note it for later if we find out anything about wither one of their alignments.

As I said, I dont know what it means. Could be just that crayons is overly confident in their reads and I need to note that later on when they are "sure" someone is scum

[farside22]

i havent picked a side in you vs dunn because i could buy both of you as scum, so im waiting to see how things shake out.

Why the scum read on me?
I know you think I tunnel only on you from the last game, which was incorrect, so what is pinging you?

[DoctorPepper]

Could be trying to deflect it also so as it doesn't look like a counterwagon

I'm right here....you could ask me

Why is your vote on someone who is hella not suspicious.

Because I placed a random vote and I have not found anywhere better to move it to yet.

This sounds hella fence-sitty

[Malakittens]

So I’m prob gonna leave Gera alone at least for D1. I don’t really like the “I’m bad at D1”, but I do know where’s he’s been and I have experienced it. I just don’t want to let that be a smokescreen for him being scum.

[Malakittens]

I’m actually p shocked though that bOb still has his vote on Gera.

As for the GC vs BM discussion. I actually did like how BM did come back to explain his read, but I do get GC point about it taking forever.

Notty I think is town because I don’t think scum!notty would be willing to give his vote temp to me That easily and I like how he changed his read on me in terms of when he was sorting me.