Mini Normal 2149 | Philosophers | Over

[Cat Scratch Fever]

osuka, why is that backpedal more likely to come from scum than town?

he tried to make a point in a very obviously ingenuine fashion. why do you feel like you have to show someone "look at all these slots i pushed" if youre town when the number is clearly at least inflated?

Sense of self importance? Idk I can kind of see it with his personality this game.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think Quick and Osuka are TvT right now, and this back and forth is rapidly growing tiring to follow. Why don't we all hug it out and vote GuiltyLion or something

[Truth]

Why are they both town?

As for your leads questions, I was suspecting osuka before that if you check my earlier posts.

[osuka]

No. I'm saying his stance on me doesn't seem like he actually SRs me. He MIGHT be doing this for personal reasons. I won't rule that out. But I just don't think he thinks I am Scum here. I think he might have gotten upset that I said he wasn't doing anything and took it out on me if he's Town here, but ultimately, he just doesn't actually BELIEVE that I am Scum. That's what I have a problem with.

please let me know whenever youre done reading my fucking mind

Personally, I don't think he is deranged enough to self harm himself because I generally see him more as a sadist than a masochist, which leans me in the direction that he is Scum.

this is the first accurate statement youve made about me in this thread so far

[osuka]

Why are they both town?

As for your leads questions, I was suspecting osuka before that if you check my earlier posts.

you've also said nothing of substance as to why you're suspecting me, or even what you're suspecting me of (i assume of being scum)

[ofrhz]

Why are they both town?

As for your leads questions, I was suspecting osuka before that if you check my earlier posts.

Based on their back and forth, I think they both believe in their pushes. I can also understand why they each scumread the other even though I disagree with it.

They're both independently towny as well. Quick has demonstrated that he has an unusual process of scumhunting, and I think his process is hard to fake.

I'm gut townreading osuka.

Why is osuka scummy for thinking you could be lying about being a mason but not wanting to take the risk of pushing you? A lot of people have expressed disbelief in your mason claim yet no one is pushing for your lynch off the top of my head.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Why are they both town?

As for your leads questions, I was suspecting osuka before that if you check my earlier posts.

Based on their back and forth, I think they both believe in their pushes. I can also understand why they each scumread the other even though I disagree with it.

They're both independently towny as well. Quick has demonstrated that he has an unusual process of scumhunting, and I think his process is hard to fake.

I'm gut townreading osuka.

Why is osuka scummy for thinking you could be lying about being a mason but not wanting to take the risk of pushing you? A lot of people have expressed disbelief in your mason claim yet no one is pushing for your lynch off the top of my head.

Holy shit

[popopopopopopo]

im just gonna make the choice to ignore truth until mechanics/claims give us more info

[popopopopopopo]

quick is probably town, seems like standard quickposting going on here

[popopopopopopo]

i never said truth isn't scummy and in fact i would very much consider a lynch on that slot

why

[GuiltyLion]

alright time to read this game

[LicketyQuickety]

alright time to read this game

[GuiltyLion]

GuiltyLion, can you please come in and obvtown it up soon. Your RVS entrance coupled with disappearing hasn’t exactly filled me to the brin with confidence regarding your slot.

weren't you just chastising Quick not 4 hours ago for pushing me for weak 'activity' reasons?

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: GL

[GuiltyLion]

you're literally going to give me an aneurysm if you keep talking about the game, you, and your buddies the way you are. it's giving me an almost unbearable urge to put my head through the wall

I feel like this is a disproportionate response to newbies doing newbie shit

like yeah Truth's reasoning isn't great but to get this riled up about it? feels performative

[osuka]

you're literally going to give me an aneurysm if you keep talking about the game, you, and your buddies the way you are. it's giving me an almost unbearable urge to put my head through the wall

I feel like this is a disproportionate response to newbies doing newbie shit

like yeah Truth's reasoning isn't great but to get this riled up about it? feels performative

i thought truth was an alt?

[osuka]

like that almost feels like a gimmick alt. Join date of literally yesterday, named "Truth" and saying "i don't lie"

[GuiltyLion]

Where's that early game energy Guilty?

spent elsewhere, but it's here to stay now!

[Truth]

Why are they both town?

As for your leads questions, I was suspecting osuka before that if you check my earlier posts.

Based on their back and forth, I think they both believe in their pushes. I can also understand why they each scumread the other even though I disagree with it.

They're both independently towny as well. Quick has demonstrated that he has an unusual process of scumhunting, and I think his process is hard to fake.

I'm gut townreading osuka.

Why is osuka scummy for thinking you could be lying about being a mason but not wanting to take the risk of pushing you? A lot of people have expressed disbelief in your mason claim yet no one is pushing for your lynch off the top of my head.

Could they not be performing an act of WIFOM? Where they intentionally push each other with reasons that seem legitimate, but it's because they know people will think they are town for doing them.

osuka appeared like he outright disbelieved me and thought I was mafia but then didn't push me or vote me. I feel the only reason for this is because he is scared for being suspected for it and wanted to see if others would vote me first.

Who do you think I should look at instead?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Truth said they play elsewhere so I don't think they're new

[GuiltyLion]

I don't know what fucking planet you're living on, but if 210 doesn't very directly contradict 195+198 then I don't know what the fuck to tell you

I am reading. I don't remember everything. I am suspicious of Osuka as well so I can help here.

VOTE: Osuka

How could you possibly have missed that? It's on the same page you said people were too focussed on your claim that I pointed out Osuka is too focussed on your claim. How exactly DID you miss that?

he actually can be forgiven for missing your "push" because honestly I'm staggered that you dared call it a push in the first place

What would you call it besides a push? I did say it was a push, but the fact that you focus on my wording instead of my actions tells a whole lot more about you then me. It was pretty clear that I put pressure on you. call it a push, call it pressure, call it Scum hunting, doesn't really matter what you call it. It's pretty clear you keep majoring on the minors. First it was my word choice, now it's something about how you personally categorize stuff, meanwhile, you HAVEN'T actually put any pressure, pushed, Scum hunted really anyone in this game at all except me based on a technicality that is beyond weak. For lack of a better term, it's a bad push.

VOTE: Osuka

For the contradiction of pushing me and not Truth.

and there it is, the classic scum meltdown into omgus

there's a lot to unpack here. in order: you didn't even cast shade on me. You literally just said "this post is kinda scummy and over the top" and proceeded to do ~literally fucking nothing~ about it, other than using it as leverage to defend yourself vs truth's own pseudo-push.

"the minors" are where people who are at least halfway competent slip in this game. the way you say things often reveals much more than the things you're actually saying (or omitting). Even if completely ignoring the fact that I actually did exactly what you suggested in 191 (i.e., pushed someone else - just happened to be you), i find it very difficult to believe that the sequence in 195-198-201-202 topped off by 208 comes from town

you got overly defensive way too quick and tried to spin the situation as if i was the offending party, when in fact you very directly contradicted yourself after making a very noncommittal poke at me to use it elsewhere in the game, then flipping right back to whatever version of it was most convenient for you at the time

Truth said they play elsewhere so I don't think they're new

are you thinking of Candy Shop? I don't remember Truth saying they played elsewhere

[GuiltyLion]

lmao ignore the quotes

[GuiltyLion]

I didn't see anything I would consider OTT.

Just to be clear for everyone else, the "nothing OTT" game that Quick purportedly just skimmed involved Osuka and Formerfish going so completely over the top with mocking 2 players' posts (and themselves) that 7/9 players in the game replaced out then and there, and at least 1 sitewide ban was given.

eh okay given Nauci's meta defense of osuka I suspect the performative thing is NAI

I remember I played with osuka once a few years ago and didn't remember this level of intensity but that game you linked is a lot more recent

[GuiltyLion]

Yeah okay I have Nauci and CSF as my strong townreads, Quick and osuka prob town.

Norway feels really awkward and stiff and I don't think he's actually advanced the game meaningfully, I'm keeping my vote where it is

[Glitch]

Lots to catch up on. I'll quote and respond as I read through.

Why would a neighbor claim mason if they were town? What's the motivation there instead of just straight up claiming neighbor?

I may have 1 buddy, I may have 2, I may have 3. Either way, I am going to use the plural form.

popo, why is it a bad idea to out if I'm just in a neighbourhood?

What's with the backpedaling? It seems like you claimed right off the bat and then realized it wasn't the greatest idea so you're going to leave it a little more open ended and open some other possibilities up. Why?

Either way, I am going to use the plural form.

Why? Don't you think that muddies the waters beyond reason?

No. It gives the mafia unnecessary information.

I second this. I'm pretty confident it's masons and not a hood. Mafia knowing how many are on whatever other faction this is would be disadvantageous because they would immediately know exactly what they're playing against. IE if they know there's 3 masons they know they have to be careful not to end up in a 4v3 where 3 of 4 town are masons or it all comes down to one swing vote, then they could plan accordingly. Whereas if they don't know how many they're up against it's just one less piece of information they have to strategize with. I would say let's leave it a mystery for now and figure more info on it out later in the game. If it were a neighborhood and there's scum in the hood, that means they know how many are in the hood and which ones are town right? So in that scenario it twists it up a little bit and it may actually be beneficial for us to have the conversation of who's in the neighborhood, because then we could have a narrower pool to draw from of who is scum. But that presumes one of them is scum (which I would think would be depending on the size of the neighborhood.) So if Truth were in hood, I think it wouldn't be smart to leave that info out. It'd be best to just talk about it. But if he were actually a mason, it's best to leave the number of masons unknown to the scum. It sounds to me like Truth claimed right off the bat a little too rashly, then backpedaled realizing he could be an early target and opened up some other options for scum to reconsider lynching him. Scum would see through this though because if it were a hood, chances are one of them would be in it. So honestly at this point I mostly believe Truth's original claim that he is a mason and I see no reason to push back against that claim.

I may or may not be in a neighbourhood. I am open to someone claiming neighbours with me which I will play along with. Of course, it might also be my real neighbour if I am in a neighbourhood. This would be the Wifom element at play, and should make it difficult for mafia to decide whether I am a Mason or a neighbour.

This argument didn't come into play until later. I'm pretty unconvinced there's a neighborhood going on. If I'm wrong, you are in a hood and you're scum and don't want to out all the other town in the hood because it would bring you under more suspicion. I don't think that's the case but we'll keep tabs on that as we go.

As I continue reading I see multiple comments like 131 and 132 saying masons are unlikely and it has to be a hood but I'm just not totally convinced of that. I can see it going masons if there's just two and Truth is bluffing. Or there could be three masons and scum has PRs to balance it out.

Or I'm wrong and there is a neighborhood going on and either Truth is the scum in it or there is no scum in the hood. But until we have more info on this, I'm strongly leaning masons and don't want a Truth lynch at this point.

Good evening folks,

Interesting. I would like everyone to know I am a Miller Mason. I have buddies but I won't be revealing who they are at this time. For now, I will act as their representative.

What is that even supposed to mean, act as their representative?

59 does not come from any town with an iq that has anywhere near 3 digits

Truth's immediate claim is kinda ballsy unless it's true. I feel 59 was just pushing back, why is it such a bad idea?

Changing gears, 44 isn't the greatest comeback with the whole fake millers are all mafia argument (if I'm understanding that right). That would be such a huge downfall for the scum if they identified together and then one gets lynched and we find out who they are. Of course we would take the rest down. That just sounds like a terrible strategy I would never think the scum would use unless they were complete morons. So VOTE: LicketyQuickety because scum aren't stupid and we have to hunt smart.

Lick, what would your strategy be as scum? Fly under the radar? Big and bold to seem fearless of dying? Something else?

Did you mean to say "fake masons" instead of "fake millers" in this post?

Yes my bad. First game online with a mason claim and I haven't worked through this before this game.

Glitch, I don't understand why in that post you voted for Quick. Maybe I'm misreading the post, but can you elaborate on your case for that vote?

I voted Lick cause I like to put pressure on people when they make me raise an eyebrow. People under pressure gives us more info. If they're scum under pressure, maybe they'll crack or slip a little and it'll help the town. If they're town, maybe they'll show us how they keep their cool or make a solid defense and it'll help the town. Unless they're just just shitty at playing, which we can also evaluate, it generally will help the town to lay on the pressure. I think a lynch this early would be stupid, but I'm not going to straight up be like, "Oh hey Lick I don't actually wanna lynch you but I'm gonna vote you for the pressure," cause that literally defeats the purpose. But that's why - stack some votes up and see what happens.

Do you think Truth is telling the truth about his role?

Why are you trying to avoid RVS?

---

VOTE: LicketyQuickety Consider it a reward for your...effort

Why with all this to go on would we still be in RVS?

So I haven’t fully finished the read but wanted to comment about LicketyQuickety going after the miller/mason claim. In 84, you mention the two possibilities for going after Truth’s claim. I would argue it’s #1 and he’s new vs #2. Post 52 should tell you that. Truth saying he has his mason buddies coming forward to verify his claim, that would look horrible coming from scum. If scum!Truth is fake claiming miller/mason then his buddies would be scum. To 1) be scum and suggest his partners will verify his claim is one helluva gambit if ANYONE of them were to be lynched, you could easily link them together 2) to not know how that would sound saying he has buddies coming forward with players being skeptical of his claim and not being aware of the optics of this. This tells me that he hasn’t even considered how scummy it would be to say “hey guys. I have a private chat and will show guilty to a cop’s investigation, but don’t worry cause I’ve got people in that private chat to verify I’m town.” That sounds scummy af and Truth seems to just not have even considered the optics. Basically his 52 reads to me like someone being like I’m confirmed town cause my buddies will back me up without even considering scum could make the same exact claim with scum buddies backing that fake claim up. As of right now, I hafta accept his claim here (at least for now).

It would be ballsy for scum to claim that all together but I feel like it would be too risky for them cause if we vote one of them off and they're scum then the rest that claimed with the lynched one would all get voted off too unless it was a hood with both sides on it. I just don't think that's a solid option unless the scum are really really wreckless noobs.

Mafia will know I am confirmed town because I am either telling the truth or lying and am mafia. So they would want to kill a confirmed town in the night.

Well shit
Maybe he is wreckless noob lol
wtaf

i meant to quote the whole post there.

So in case of a lynch without any info, we're more likely to hit town than mafia. Accordingly, we have to get more info on scum from the lynch than the value of losing a player.

I'm sure that we're marginally more likely to hit mafia with this method on the first day than a completely random RNG lynch but that is not the test IMO.

The real test is whether the net information gained from the reactions of people from being pressured outweighs the high chance of a potential loss of a townie. When I say net information I also mean to include negative utility information for town such as the fact that the mafia knows of the existence of a masonry when it did not need to.

This logic works better the more investigative roles there are in the game though because the more there are the more it makes sense to wait for a night.

I haven't seen anything yet to lose a townie in a 13 player game so far.

VOTE: NO LYNCH

Bro this is just really stupid. I get what you're saying about how important it is that our first lynch is as educated as possible and we want to knock out the right person. I get it. But to just give scum a head start like that when we have two weeks of discussion at our fingertips is a terrible place to start. And what's worse is that your vote isn't even being used as pressure against the person you're voting for. By nature of a NL you're genuinely wanting a no lynch. At least when you vote for a person you're not advocating to lynch them, you may just be pressuring them making them think they're up. Please use your vote as a tool, not waste it on a NL.

Do you feel we have a legitimate claim 7 pages in?

I don't think there is a rule that you can't claim within 7 pages...

What do YOU think about the claim? Do you believe they are millar?

I'm just gonna say Looker really bugs me with the very little contribution he has. There's nothing good he contributed here.

Just read 183. yup

Could I suggest we move on from this discussion for now and pretend it didn't happen?

This supports my argument of masons, not hood, above.

Then there's 273. Ew. LQ I really feel like you just raged so hard and were so upset with osuka that you SR'd him. Right on the heels of 271, osuka's playstyle makes sense. I feel like going so hardcore at each other isn't getting anywhere. Do you have any reads other than osuka that you feel solid about??

Reads
Truth - shit town mason. If I'm wrong neighborhood scum
Lick - sketch at first, then was confused for a while, then the ugly page 9-10 osuka vs LQ battle I'm reading is just confusing. I think osuka has solid arguments and
osuka - town but omg does this guy have any friends or does he just hate everyone lol
Looker - lurky and non-contributive, I want more content pls
Cat scratch - townyish but just based off a few things, I could sway

Why are they both town?

As for your leads questions, I was suspecting osuka before that if you check my earlier posts.

Based on their back and forth, I think they both believe in their pushes. I can also understand why they each scumread the other even though I disagree with it.

They're both independently towny as well. Quick has demonstrated that he has an unusual process of scumhunting, and I think his process is hard to fake.

I'm gut townreading osuka.

Why is osuka scummy for thinking you could be lying about being a mason but not wanting to take the risk of pushing you? A lot of people have expressed disbelief in your mason claim yet no one is pushing for your lynch off the top of my head.

Could they not be performing an act of WIFOM? Where they intentionally push each other with reasons that seem legitimate, but it's because they know people will think they are town for doing them.

osuka appeared like he outright disbelieved me and thought I was mafia but then didn't push me or vote me. I feel the only reason for this is because he is scared for being suspected for it and wanted to see if others would vote me first.

Who do you think I should look at instead?

Truth bro stop asking people how you should play and what you should do, just do it. LQ vs osuka is freaking huge and dramatic and that would be a really bold move on scum. osuka's play in previous games matches up with what they're doing here so unless LQ and osuka are crazy skilled I really doubt we have 2 scum making an uproar in the thread to make us think they aren't together. Especially not this early.

SORRY FOR THE WALL