Newbie 2012 - Game Over

[72offsuit]

Hey everyone. I'm coming in witH the two following questions that I would like all to answer please. Mostly for fun since it's so early in the game.

1) Random guess or analysis of what we have so far, take a crack at the scumteam. Who is the mafia team in this game?
2) If you were mafia in this game, who would you like to be your partner, or who would most likely be your partner.

1) Dunce+Unowen. Gut.
2) Would like: GuiltyLion. Most likely Ydrasse.

[72offsuit]

1. Saying my post is non genuine or forced IS DISCREDITING. It's like you're saying in posting for the sake of being active instead of actually hunting
2. the point of RVS is to see where the votes go and to create a starting point. Voting for the mod is a classic non committal vote common and it's something that deprives us of any info. Yes they could do that because scum might not want be linked to anything. The point is, distilling it to "this is shallow" is discrediting the entire premise of it and just flat out paints me as scummy for having legitimate concerns. Also saying let's leave RVS doesn't really do much except signify that it's a serious vote. Would you have batted an eye if I said "serious vote" instead
3. Not voting at all isn't scummy if the player wasn't active. RVS voting the mod is scummier regardless because some people may not know of RVS. In fact, I've seen newbie games where town doesn't wanna participate in it

1. Ok. You seem particularly ready to attribute my read of your post as being LAMISTy and scummy, down to a scum agenda on my behalf. i.e discrediting my intentions. Hypocritical perhaps, no? Pot calling the kettle black?

2. Perhaps I am being caught up in the semantics of wording. But sometimes the choice of one's words can be telling. You could realistically have said phrase X (serious vote) , but instead you said Y (lets leave RVS)

3. OK. Fair.

[72offsuit]

not really, no. i feel that thinking it suspicious is a bit of a stretch, really — people in rvs are going to be a bit more silly/lighthearted until people start really scumhunting. that, and i'm of the opinion that mafia are more likely to come into this game with a serious attitude than something silly that draws attention to them.

A bit of stretching is necessary this early on or I don't know how progress would be made.

Agreed. Everything is a stretch at the start, and then as the day progresses more clues are revealed.

[72offsuit]

I'm saying DP's "Let's leave RVS" is LAMISTY and forced. Doesn't sound natural to me.

Ah right that makes sense. It was a bit forced, but I think it was sincere in pushing things forward.

@ Everyone:

1) What is your experience with playing mafia?
2) Do you prefer playing town or scum?
3) What do you think of the Policy lynch of Lynch All Lurkers?

Some casual games on different forums many years ago. I'm pretty sure I ended up making an account here and played a game or two but I didn't stick around.
Town
I approve

By the way, need more votes on Dunce.

Classic greeting-the-entire-thread scum tell:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=79490

What do you make of Ydrasse, myself and now JT who also did this?

Please elaborate on how something can be both forced, but also sincere?

[72offsuit]

I'm saying DP's "Let's leave RVS" is LAMISTY and forced. Doesn't sound natural to me.

Ah right that makes sense. It was a bit forced, but I think it was sincere in pushing things forward.

@ Everyone:

1) What is your experience with playing mafia?
2) Do you prefer playing town or scum?
3) What do you think of the Policy lynch of Lynch All Lurkers?

Some casual games on different forums many years ago. I'm pretty sure I ended up making an account here and played a game or two but I didn't stick around.
Town
I approve

By the way, need more votes on Dunce.

Classic greeting-the-entire-thread scum tell:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=79490

What do you make of Ydrasse, myself and now JT who also did this?

Was wondering who would ask me this first re: the hello greeting of others. Ill get back to you on this soon, just not yet, for my own reasons. If i haven't remembered to reanswer this later in rhis game day then please pull me up on it, but hopefully that wont b required

[72offsuit]

I think Ydrasse, UNOwen, DoctorPepper are all likely town

Im a bit torn regarding early outing of early town reads. Generally town read players just tend to get killed off and you get left with the scumbuckets. Though obviously taking a stance is important so others can get a read of yourself.

What are your thoughts re: the benefits of posting these early town reads vs the cons?

[72offsuit]

I find the whole modvote situation to have been artificially blown up. This sets my eyes early on Doctorpepper.

VOTE: Doctorpepper

I also don't like this vote

Why do you choose to describe it as "artificial"? What is the scum motive to play the way Doctorpepper is playing, and why is that more likely than town!Doctorpepper trying to find scum?

VOTE: TheThirteenthJT

I called it artificial because that what it looks like. Basically I need a reason to start a push on someone to make myself useful to the town on page one, get early scumhunting credit and zoom out. I've seen this done before and always pings me early in games. Both Doctorpepper and Uno have done this with what I found to be a lol vote by Italiano.

Now don't get me wrong. Early game voting is always a crapshoot. So since Italiano was receiving early game pressure, I want to pressure the counterside and see reactions as well. Thus my vote.

1) Random guess or analysis of what we have so far, take a crack at the scumteam. Who is the mafia team in this game?
2) If you were mafia in this game, who would you like to be your partner, or who would most likely be your partner.

on the other hand, I don't really like these questions, they don't seem very likely to actually lead to useful content. We should always be talking about 1) in the general sense constantly anyways, and 2) is just a WIFOM fest

I really feel that town has nothing to lose by answering those questions. It can alert us of anyone potentially buddying us early in the game and gives us something to look back at later as the game progresses.

I do agree we should be sharing our reads constantly throughout the game. This is just a fun little encouragement to do so this early in.

Now as to the second point, I don't think WiFOM is all bad. I rather not answer why until more people answer the question. Then I will feel free explaining what I like about this question. This is also a trial run question for me.

I agree on your points, so far I would say my scum team would be 72 and Doctorpepper
2. Probably Guiltylion,
I am not sure why 72 would push for my lynch so quickly, it seems off to me.

1. You aren't doing youself a favour here. Pushing someone as being scum by using someone else's logic is scummy.
Oh I lynched a townie? Oh well wasnt my fault, it was player X's case, lets lynch player X now.

2. Why not? You don't see !townMe putting pressure on a player I see as scummy?

[72offsuit]

I find the whole modvote situation to have been artificially blown up. This sets my eyes early on Doctorpepper.

VOTE: Doctorpepper

I also don't like this vote

Why do you choose to describe it as "artificial"? What is the scum motive to play the way Doctorpepper is playing, and why is that more likely than town!Doctorpepper trying to find scum?

VOTE: TheThirteenthJT

I called it artificial because that what it looks like. Basically I need a reason to start a push on someone to make myself useful to the town on page one, get early scumhunting credit and zoom out. I've seen this done before and always pings me early in games. Both Doctorpepper and Uno have done this with what I found to be a lol vote by Italiano.

Now don't get me wrong. Early game voting is always a crapshoot. So since Italiano was receiving early game pressure, I want to pressure the counterside and see reactions as well. Thus my vote.

1) Random guess or analysis of what we have so far, take a crack at the scumteam. Who is the mafia team in this game?
2) If you were mafia in this game, who would you like to be your partner, or who would most likely be your partner.

on the other hand, I don't really like these questions, they don't seem very likely to actually lead to useful content. We should always be talking about 1) in the general sense constantly anyways, and 2) is just a WIFOM fest

I really feel that town has nothing to lose by answering those questions. It can alert us of anyone potentially buddying us early in the game and gives us something to look back at later as the game progresses.

I do agree we should be sharing our reads constantly throughout the game. This is just a fun little encouragement to do so this early in.

Now as to the second point, I don't think WiFOM is all bad. I rather not answer why until more people answer the question. Then I will feel free explaining what I like about this question. This is also a trial run question for me.

I agree on your points, so far I would say my scum team would be 72 and Doctorpepper
2. Probably Guiltylion,
I am not sure why 72 would push for my lynch so quickly, it seems off to me.

Can you elaborate further on why you see myself and DP as scum. Please distil the case, step by step, as if im a 9 year old, even if you have to repeat the logic presented my another player.

[72offsuit]

So DoctorPepper and UNOwen voting for me on day one without explanation. Seems pretty convenient. You two just shot up my scum read list.

What explanantions or case are you expecting early on in day 1 of the game?

[72offsuit]

I think Ydrasse, UNOwen, DoctorPepper are all likely town

You said you didn't like UNO not making his reasoning for his vote clear but yet you town read him. Please explain.

[72offsuit]

@Walter and Uno.
WHY do you prefer playing as town?

[72offsuit]

Pretty much everyone who saw my initial post for what it was seems the likeliest to be town so far to me. GuiltyLion, Ydrasse, 72 and pii. I’ve already mentioned my two top scumreads. (my voters)

Besides I’d love to believe I could work with Hobbes to find these scum and eventually solve this game, eh?

Just putting on my SE hat on here (my first time being an SE by the way)

If you are town here, my advice is just be careful in future games. If you scumread players who vote you and towneead people who have townread/defended/not attacked yourself over a post,
Scum can manipulate you based off that alone and ensure they dont scumread you.

Basically, if i was playing with you in a game following this eg Newbie 2020, then my scum strategy would be to buddy you, as i read you as a player susceptible to pocketing/buddying.

Then again, maybe im talking absolute crap, then take it with a pinch of salt.

[72offsuit]

Pretty much everyone who saw my initial post for what it was seems the likeliest to be town so far to me. GuiltyLion, Ydrasse, 72 and pii. I’ve already mentioned my two top scumreads. (my voters)

Besides I’d love to believe I could work with Hobbes to find these scum and eventually solve this game, eh?

Even though I find it scummy as well, I doubt both mafia would use the same point to push you early game. One of them to me is being truthful.

Where do I fall in your reads? And Walter?

Why ONE of them, why could both not be truthful? It doesn't sound like coming from your post you even consider yourself being wrong.

[72offsuit]

So DoctorPepper and UNOwen voting for me on day one without explanation. Seems pretty convenient. You two just shot up my scum read list.

this isn't really an inspiring post

Agree, without meaning to be harsh, just providing (possibly unwanted )feedback.

Imagine if the 8 other players also said, "hey, player X voted for me. I'm town, therefore player X is probably scum".

[DoctorPepper]

Am I the only one here who prefers playing scum?

Not really game related, just curious

[72offsuit]

VOTE: TTJT

[72offsuit]

72offsuit's Unofficial Vote Count (UVC):

ItalianoVD (2) - DoctorPepper, UNOwen
TheThirteenthJT (3) - GuiltyLion, Ydrasse, 72offsuit
Ydrasse (1) - WaltertheDunce10
DoctorPepper (1) - TheThirteenthJT
UNOwen (1) - ItalianoVD

Not Voting (1) - piisirrational

TJT is at L-2

Please correct me if im wrong

[UNOwen]

I actually see two people right now on my suspect list but both are independent from one another. Yourself and DoctorPepper. Right now I would say Doctorpepper with Walterthedunce based on gut.

And for me I would partner with Ydrasse because they are the only one I've played with previously. It would be fun.

Are you saying that you gut read Walter as scum independently or that you are gut reading him as DoctorPepper's most likely partner?

[UNOwen]

other than that:

unowen: why did you put jt as your second scum option? (58)
pii: who do you think is scum, if you think italiano's post is nai? (65)
guiltylion: why do you have the trs that you do? (63)
walter: why did you put doctorpepper as your second scum option? (69)

okay, i think i should be caught up now w the thread and i'll be around a bit to talk!

That introduction was weak considering how much there was in the game. The only post with content that might be revealing in that trio was the DoctorPepper vote and even that was empty as he stated it. A good contrast is piisirrational who was similarly poor but did not make an attempt to appear like he was contributing. He later expanded showing that he had put more thought into the game than it looked but I am not a fan of that either.

[UNOwen]

I have a question for my voters: DoctorPepper and UNOwen

Even though I am a noob to this version of the game and on this forum, it’s pretty normal and common in scumming/wolfing 101 to not bring any undue and unnecessary attention to yourself. It pretty much puts a target on your back. I don’t know the meta of this site yet, but that seems like something that will never change.

So my question is if I was scum what would be the benefit to me and/or my partner (whether they were a noob or experienced) to put such a blatant target on my back and possibly their back for attempting to “protect” me. If there is a benefit I don’t know about, that’s why I’m asking.

Scum-you would not think you were putting a target on your back.

Oh man I knew I forgot someone. You were the other one that made the same point as the others, my mistake. I agree that it more than likely wouldn’t be both scum voting for me, so I’m leaning more towards UNOwen being scum than DoctorPepper. DoctorPepper being the SE though doesn’t rule out him out for me.

Walter I’m not sure of yet. I’m gonna go read all of his posts again and see if anything stands out.

What is your thinking when deciding which of us is scummier?

[UNOwen]

Please elaborate on how something can be both forced, but also sincere?

This is a newbie game, I can see an experienced player making statements with more authority than they otherwise would (especially in the very early game) in order to get things moving. So the "Let's leave RVS" was forced but the motivation behind it came across as sincere and not an attempt to put on "town leader" hat.

@Walter and Uno.
WHY do you prefer playing as town?

Murder mysteries are fun, I enjoy trying to figure things out.

[UNOwen]

Italiano's reaction to pressure has been overly defensive, so I'm content with keeping my vote there. There is quite a bit of content in the game now and he hasn't engaged with
any of it, even through the prism of thinking that the people who voted for him must be scum (which is a perspective I could imagine a townie having).

After seeing the vote count I need to read everything again to see what JT did or said that has em at 2 votes.

In particular I would like to hear what your opinion of JT is.

I also agree with the votes against ThirteenthJT. His stated suspicions are pretty mechanical - two people made an early push so he pressures them because he has seen scum do that before. Both of us have made further posts but I see no analysis of them so to me it looks like an attempt to take positions without being tied to anything that is specific to this game.

[DoctorPepper]

2 Day V/LA (exactly 48 hours from now).

[TheThirteenthJT]

I called it artificial because that what it looks like. Basically I need a reason to start a push on someone to make myself useful to the town on page one, get early scumhunting credit and zoom out. I've seen this done before and always pings me early in games. Both Doctorpepper and Uno have done this with what I found to be a lol vote by Italiano.

Now don't get me wrong. Early game voting is always a crapshoot. So since Italiano was receiving early game pressure, I want to pressure the counterside and see reactions as well. Thus my vote.

You didn't really answer the heart of my question though, let me try again. There are two possible worlds based on DoctorPepper's alignment

1) DoctorPepper is town, and pushed Italiano's vote because they genuinely thought it was a bad entrance/RVS vote
2) DoctorPepper is scum, and used Italiano's vote as a reason to start a fake push and pretend to be scum hunting

Without having any information, the odds of world 1 are 75% (assuming a town POV), and the odds of world 2 are 25%.

You're saying it looks like world two, but I'm asking

why

. What specifically about the way DoctorPepper pushed it makes you think it is more likely fake than not? Because while it certainly

could

be fake, I don't see a good reason to think it's likely that it is.

Is the 75/25% based on amount of players 7/2 town mafia ratio?

Specifically with Doctorpepper is the fact he is an experienced player pushing a newbie who has not been on RVS on this site before. I don't know how strong his RVS experience is but it really reminds me of my first game in a site like this one. I came in with a no lynch vote because I thought it was more possible day 1 to Lynch a town over scum. In the previous site I had played on, games were more flavored and night actions were more important than day phases Immediately I was targeted by the mafia over this and I was day 1 lynch from there as a member of the town. It was an early exploit by the mafia on a newbie mistake. Thus why I see this as scumish to push a newbie player for a lol vote.

Now I disagree that even when using you 75/25 ratio that 25 percent is always a reason to push someone when something sets you off.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Pretty much everyone who saw my initial post for what it was seems the likeliest to be town so far to me. GuiltyLion, Ydrasse, 72 and pii. I’ve already mentioned my two top scumreads. (my voters)

Besides I’d love to believe I could work with Hobbes to find these scum and eventually solve this game, eh?

Even though I find it scummy as well, I doubt both mafia would use the same point to push you early game. One of them to me is being truthful.

Where do I fall in your reads? And Walter?

Why ONE of them, why could both not be truthful? It doesn't sound like coming from your post you even consider yourself being wrong.

You know you are right here. I was so focused on tHis point that I didn't give myself the option to say both are town. I think in reference to it I would have preferred to say something along the lines of ..

If there is scum in this push it would only be one and not both.

And this early in the game I know I could be wrong, well at any point I could be wrong. But if I don't push what I see or at least make an attempt to call something out that strikes me wrong, I am doing a disservice to myself and to my team.