Newbie 2012 - Game Over

[TheThirteenthJT]

Am I the only one here who prefers playing scum?

Not really game related, just curious

Nope I also answered that I preferred playing on the mafia side. I have a love hate relationship with being town. Love the scumhunting, hate the general nervous feeling I have as town with how many angles I could die from. Being perceived as too townish or scummy. As mafia I feel less pressure and enjoy the game more.

I always find it weird when people say town is less pressure. As town we have the numbers game over scum and I hate the thought of losing thus making me feel pressured to be right.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I actually see two people right now on my suspect list but both are independent from one another. Yourself and DoctorPepper. Right now I would say Doctorpepper with Walterthedunce based on gut.

And for me I would partner with Ydrasse because they are the only one I've played with previously. It would be fun.

Are you saying that you gut read Walter as scum independently or that you are gut reading him as DoctorPepper's most likely partner?

Gutread him as Doctorpeppers most likely partner. I have since changed my view.

Before bed last night I wanted to do the following, but I ended up not getting a chance to.

UNVOTE: doctorpepper

[TheThirteenthJT]

Italiano's reaction to pressure has been overly defensive, so I'm content with keeping my vote there. There is quite a bit of content in the game now and he hasn't engaged with
any of it, even through the prism of thinking that the people who voted for him must be scum (which is a perspective I could imagine a townie having).

After seeing the vote count I need to read everything again to see what JT did or said that has em at 2 votes.

In particular I would like to hear what your opinion of JT is.

I also agree with the votes against ThirteenthJT. His stated suspicions are pretty mechanical - two people made an early push so he pressures them because he has seen scum do that before.

Both of us have made further posts but I see no analysis of them so to me it looks like an attempt to take positions without being tied to anything that is specific to this game

.

Please quote me what further points you have made that you want me to analyze. I've seen Doctorpeppers and they have been swaying my mind on him making a genuine push. And I will respond to it when I have more time. I'm not clearing him in my mind but a feel a bit better than yesterday over him. While in turn I am feeling lower on you.

And if you link anything after my last post yesterday, this is a rather unfair point for you to make. I wouldnt thave been able to respond if I had not seen them.

VOTE: unowen

[UNOwen]

Please quote me what further points you have made that you want me to analyze. I've seen Doctorpeppers and they have been swaying my mind on him making a genuine push. And I will respond to it when I have more time. I'm not clearing him in my mind but a feel a bit better than yesterday over him. While in turn I am feeling lower on you.

And if you link anything after my last post yesterday, this is a rather unfair point for you to make. I wouldnt thave been able to respond if I had not seen them.

VOTE: unowen

I'm saying that you argued one of us was scum but not both and then voted DrPepper arbitrarily. Disregarding that the logic didn't hold up, it doesn't seem like a genuinely motivated vote because the only reasoning you gave was the early push which applies to both of us.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I like town as to solve something and to read,
also less stress
In regards my reads are currently based on gut but become more analytical as the game goes on.
Sorry for not being too active, it has been a tough week with my doodles.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Please quote me what further points you have made that you want me to analyze. I've seen Doctorpeppers and they have been swaying my mind on him making a genuine push. And I will respond to it when I have more time. I'm not clearing him in my mind but a feel a bit better than yesterday over him. While in turn I am feeling lower on you.

And if you link anything after my last post yesterday, this is a rather unfair point for you to make. I wouldnt thave been able to respond if I had not seen them.

VOTE: unowen

I'm saying that you argued one of us was scum but not both and then voted DrPepper arbitrarily. Disregarding that the logic didn't hold up, it doesn't seem like a genuinely motivated vote because the only reasoning you gave was the early push which applies to both of us.

I'm a bit confused here. Doesn't seem like the same question at all.


But I'll answer it. I can't vote two people at once so logic would say push one person until they've satisfied you or not then depending on that push the other. There are more reasons to vote DP first over you. One he was the first to mention the reason for his vote and two he is an SE. I'm sure as an SE he has seen this scenario before. If I can find a game were this happened with him before I can see if they reacted the same or different previously. I was satisfied with my early push on him and next is you on my list.

[TheThirteenthJT]

@ Everyone:

1) What is your experience with playing mafia?
2) Do you prefer playing town or scum?
3) What do you think of the Policy lynch of Lynch All Lurkers?

I forgot to ask, why the last question? I shouldn't have answered it because doesn't it tip off the mafia to be more or less active depending on peoples answers?

[Micc]

Votecount 1.03

TheThirteenthJT (3) -

GuiltyLion, Ydrasse, 72offsuit

ItalianoVD (2) -

DoctorPepper, UNOwen

UNOwen (2) -

ItalianoVD, TheThirteenthJT

Ydrasse (1) -

WaltertheDunce10

Not Voting (1) -

piisirrational

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to Eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-06-28 20:00:00).

DoctorPepper is V/LA until 6/21.

[WaltertheDunce10]

VOTE: 72offsuit

I now upon a reread think that last question could be used by scum to change their play in a subtle way.
I would like to know your thinking on the last one and why it is important?
If town, my feeling is that it is a test, but a sloppy one, which, an experienced player would be able to better conduct in a better fashion.
This only adds to my scum read as it gives scum an easy out and ability to adjust.

on another note, Anyone else find it odd that piisirrational popped up answered 72's questions and then dissapeared.

[ItalianoVD]

Both of these quotes kinda sum up why the whole idea is flawed to begin with

if you think Action A is scum-indicative but you have two people who committed Action A and you also think one of them is Town, then it follows that Action A by itself cannot be something that you consider scum-indicative, because town literally also did it.

This makes sense, but in this instance Player 1 committing Action A on his own validity pings me at say 50%, Player 2 committing Action A is going to ping me at 60%, Player 3 commiting Action A is going to ping me at 70% and so on and so on. I believe Player 2 is scummier then Player 1 even though they did the same action, if that makes sense.

I understand that it's maybe faulty logic or analysis, but it's all I have to go by. If I was scum I would try to direct the vote elsewhere, not OMGUS.

[Ydrasse]

@italiano

:

so, your scumreads are both doctorpepper and unowen right now, yeah? if you could explain, do you genuinely think that both of them are aligned by virtue of a vote placed on you and do you think that as a team, two players would coordinate themselves to push early/vote together on a person? in 91 you state your reasons to believe they aren't random, but fmpov i don't think both scum would want to jump on a person like that; it seems like it's an easy way to get caught out for buddying.

furthermore, what do you think of doctorpepper's post in 29, where he calls out unowen for being sheepy himself? do you think that a scum player would do that to their teammate that early on? similarly, what do you think of owen saying that his mindset is matching up with pepper's? (58)

i think that your tone so far is a bit defensive, because i don't think that a mislynch was going to come off of a two person wagon. i think that 94 is unfair because scum DO do scummy things, and that's how we find them? it seems disingenuous to say "your reads are wrong because you're reading my actions" because what else is someone supposed to read you off of? that, and the way that you've insisted so far that you're a New Player, thus you wouldn't do this or that (79, 91) seems like a convenient defense as well.

where are your reads sitting in general right now? it seems so far you've been working with a very narrow scope as to who you've been looking at thus far fmpov. if you think that one of doctorpepper or unowen are scum, who are their partners if they aren't aligned?

[ItalianoVD]

I genuinely think the interaction with DoctorPepper and 72 is town v town, but it's my gut so take with that what you will. Guilty, Ydrasse, and 72 are voting for TTJT for fair enough reasons to me. I'm wary about TTJT voting with me. Post 111 from 72 stands out to me because I feel TTJT could be using that against me here. I mean I have my reasons for voting UNOwen and backing off of DoctorPepper and TTJT is mirroring my actions. Hmm.

DoctorPepper can you elaborate on 25 Why do you think 72 and myself are scum partners or I should say why would you not be surprised if we were? And then could you elaborate on 39 please?
Walter what did you mean by the second part of your 30 post?
DoctorPepper can you explain why it's a wasted vote in 55?
Questions for both TTJT and 72? Can you summarize an overall feeling of Walter?
I like Ydrasse's 76 post. Seemed like a genuine criticism of TTJT's questioning.
Walter can you elaborate on 76
TTJT your post in 80 seems almost like you are thumbing your nose at us. I'm probably wrong, but it just seems that way.
DoctorPepper after reading again, I like the explanation in post 88. Appreciate it. As a matter of fact I like your interaction with me as a whole. I admit not so much mine with yours.
Guilty, shouldn't the percentages in 96 be 50/50 since you are working with no information and both worlds could equally be true and equally be false? And if you don't mind could you give a better explanation of 99.
72 can you elaborate on 1) of post 100 And I really, really like 111 as I mentioned already. Makes a lot of sense and something I definitely didn't think of. Thanks.
I'll elaborate on 119 & 121 in a moment, just wanna get everything out.
Great questioning in 133

[TheThirteenthJT]

I don't understand what you mean by thumbing your nose in that post Italiano. And I'm not mirroring your actions. I have my own play and I'm following through on it. If you think it mirrors you it is coincidental. I have not town cleared you either so think I haven't been looking at your posts either. So far I see you as a player who has been out on a bad spot early and is of course paranoid to be lynched day one in both their games. Which is why I can see others saying you are being defensive.

My read on Walter is still quite neutral. He seems enthusiastic to be playing. I don't take is an indicator of alignment just yet. He could either be an excited newbie staying alert and ready to play or a smart scum player feigning this, but I think that would be much harder.

You know what, I will say I feel he is leaning town as I post this. I normally don't like town reading people because I feel it backfires on me a lot. I just see an excited player early.

Right now my guess on scum is definetly at minimum one very experience player. (SE or not). How often do newbie games feature two SE scum players?

Ydrasse that's what I was getting at when I stated one scum one town earlier. Now I am leaning Uno here. What's your thoughts on their play? Was he sheeping or being genuine? I feel the doctor has cleared up that doubt I had earlier.

So far on my questions I don't see answers for
Guiltylion
DrPepper
Italiano
Piisirrational

Just let me know if you have no intentions of answering my questions so I can explain why I did it. Thank you

[piisirrational]

pii: who do you think is scum, if you think italiano's post is nai? (65)

Probably DoctorPepper. Don't like how they specifically wanted us to "leave RVS." Also don't like how they claim to have "solved the game" in post 25, and post 50 just seems pretty defensive in response to 72offsuit's post.

[piisirrational]

if you think Action A is scum-indicative but you have two people who committed Action A and you also think one of them is Town, then it follows that Action A by itself cannot be something that you consider scum-indicative, because town literally also did it.

Not necessarily true. Town can also do actions that some people find scum-indicative.

[WaltertheDunce10]

To answer, I was responding to ygrasse's post on 28 on the second part of 30.
Doctor pepper to me seemed pretty reactionary when I did a read at the time
The main one that I picked up on was 55 and 25, where he seems annoyed at questioning.

[Ydrasse]

@ydrasse

I think I answered it in my post 50? Where scum would want to discredit other players? In an attempt to drive townies to that player or potentially buddy up to ther players the other is attacking.

I called it as discrediting because e moving past RVS is being painted as "shallow" and "looking townie"

okay, i was sorting that into the "defense" category without reading it as an explanation, my bad.

also, i believe i used the word shallow at some point in reference to your moving past rvs, though i wanna clarify i don't think it's inherently a bad thing at that stage of the game. a lot of things are most likely going to be shallow at the beginning, imo.

where are your reads at currently? is 72 still your top sr?

[Ydrasse]

guiltylion: why do you have the trs that you do? (63)

would it be okay if I just lazily said that I've played somewhere in the range of 60-70+ games at least on site and altogether their posts and behavior so far vibe town to me? Given that most players are town it only takes a few really genuine sounding thought processes and attempts to sort in order to move someone into my 'prob don't want to lynch today' pile

......for now. >:|

do you still scumread jt after they clarified what they meant about one of doctorpep/owen being scum?

[Ydrasse]

@72offsuit:

regarding 105, why did you feel the need to ask this question? this post pinged me a bit because i feel like you're asking about trs/talking about them for, fmpov, isn't the right reason to do so?

also, you threw down your vote on jt with no explanation in the post itself; do you sr him for the reasons in 112, and do you still find him scummy after him clarifying what he meant?

[Ydrasse]

VOTE: 72offsuit

I now upon a reread think that last question could be used by scum to change their play in a subtle way.
I would like to know your thinking on the last one and why it is important?
If town, my feeling is that it is a test, but a sloppy one, which, an experienced player would be able to better conduct in a better fashion.
This only adds to my scum read as it gives scum an easy out and ability to adjust.

on another note, Anyone else find it odd that piisirrational popped up answered 72's questions and then dissapeared.

what do you think a scum player's agenda would be by asking that question, and how much do you think they stand to gain from it?

from your iso, it seems like you've given more analysis of doctorpepper's posts than you have 72's save for this one and in 69. what other reasons do you find 72 scummy?

also, i personally don't think it means anything because pii popped up again and then disappeared without offering much once more.

[Ydrasse]

I don't understand what you mean by thumbing your nose in that post Italiano. And I'm not mirroring your actions. I have my own play and I'm following through on it. If you think it mirrors you it is coincidental. I have not town cleared you either so think I haven't been looking at your posts either. So far I see you as a player who has been out on a bad spot early and is of course paranoid to be lynched day one in both their games. Which is why I can see others saying you are being defensive.

My read on Walter is still quite neutral. He seems enthusiastic to be playing. I don't take is an indicator of alignment just yet. He could either be an excited newbie staying alert and ready to play or a smart scum player feigning this, but I think that would be much harder.

You know what, I will say I feel he is leaning town as I post this. I normally don't like town reading people because I feel it backfires on me a lot. I just see an excited player early.

Right now my guess on scum is definetly at minimum one very experience player. (SE or not). How often do newbie games feature two SE scum players?

Ydrasse that's what I was getting at when I stated one scum one town earlier. Now I am leaning Uno here. What's your thoughts on their play? Was he sheeping or being genuine? I feel the doctor has cleared up that doubt I had earlier.

So far on my questions I don't see answers for
Guiltylion
DrPepper
Italiano
Piisirrational

Just let me know if you have no intentions of answering my questions so I can explain why I did it. Thank you

do you mean that doctorpepper has become a tr to you at this point? i just wanna clarify that since it seemed like you hadn't cleared him totally in 127. as for owen, i don't think the sheeping pinged me on his posts so much as the subsequent ones he made where he called them suspicious but didn't give the answer until asked. similarly, he didn't give a reason why he sr'd you until he was asked and threw down your name as to who he thought the scum were. (118)

even in that post, i don't get why he called the vote itself empty. also that, and 121 where he states that he's fine keeping his vote on italiano, but he can imagine a world where his actions are towny, and he also agrees with your wagon as well and supports it from a distance. so he's pretty low in my poe. the two other people who i consider pretty low in it are voting him though which... . i think there's at least one scum in {italiano, jt, owen}.

@owen: what do you think of italiano trying to interact with more people now and asking them questions/wanting clarity on things? and offering more of his opinions on other posters.

[Ydrasse]

hopefully tomorrow i will be around in real time for Real This Time to talk and not communicate through these posts beyond the veil of night.

[72offsuit]

Yeah that's a wasted vote.

UNVOTE: doctorpepper
I don't think there is such a thing as a wasted vote when things can be so easily retracted. Let me rephrase that, I don't think there is anything such as a wasted vote this early in the game. No one is exempt until confirmed town.

VOTE: doctorpepper

What's the purpose of this unvote and re-vote?

[72offsuit]

@ DP

do you mind answering my post 44 when you're back?

[72offsuit]

Please elaborate on how something can be both forced, but also sincere?

This is a newbie game, I can see an experienced player making statements with more authority than they otherwise would (especially in the very early game) in order to get things moving. So the "Let's leave RVS" was forced but the motivation behind it came across as sincere and not an attempt to put on "town leader" hat.

@Walter and Uno.
WHY do you prefer playing as town?

Murder mysteries are fun, I enjoy trying to figure things out.

Are you saying that you find trying to lead town as being scummy?