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Post Post #675 (ISO) » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:18 pm

Post by stungun0404 »

In post 673, notscience wrote:
In post 649, stungun0404 wrote:I don't have this same level of confidence going for other available lynches, like Dunn for example. That said, Dunn could very well be scum, but since he's posted such little content I have found him to be a frustratingly tough player to sort.
He’s had more stances than not mafia, do you have a read on the latter
Yes I do. A slight one. I've played with nm 2 games where he was town, and 1 where he was scum. While he is tough to read, I am inclined to think that this game resembles his town game slightly more based off the way his posts have felt than his scum game. Overall, I am nulltown on nm.

I wouldn't want to lynch him rn, but if all my current scumleans/null reads don't finish off the scum, he'd be someone to reconsider.
In post 674, notscience wrote:I’m caught up

Stun gun is very wordy and I think it’s weird he asked the robot to be less though but I’m not sure it’s AI or not but man that guy can type some long posts
Didn't ask him to be less wordy; asked him to use less complicated words in his posts so that they are more understandable.
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Post Post #676 (ISO) » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:20 pm

Post by notscience »

You say potato I say dirt apple
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Post Post #677 (ISO) » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:21 pm

Post by notscience »

I’m not sure how I feel about the Dunn wagon but I feel like I remember himself getting in this situation repeatedly before as both alignments so figured it must be a rite of passage
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Post Post #678 (ISO) » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:28 pm

Post by notscience »

I’m flip flopping on voteto

I think mala town
Far town
Stun town
Gc town
Robot town

I’m nulltown reading bm?
Idk about dp
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Post Post #679 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:55 am

Post by Malakittens »

In post 652, farside22 wrote:
In post 638, votato wrote:I do it to get that glare from you farside
Image

In post 641, Malakittens wrote:I hate to say it but I’m still ok with a Dunn lynch. As much as I didn’t like BM’s posts.. the SG flop is going to be a turn off right now in terms of voting there until I sort that out. Gera is off the table for today, but note I’m not sold on him being scum
Or town. He’s really null for me; the same with NM.

What do you think of GC's reaction and comments about BM and SG?
I mean I’m kinda leaning on GC being town. I like SC being town as well. BM I’m kinda leaning as scum. Going to wait for clidd to post though. I *mean* I understand that SC is scum reading them both, but I feel like he’s lining up lynches, but I still think he’s town for all his posts. I feel like he is trying to scum hunt which is good.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
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Post Post #680 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:57 am

Post by Malakittens »

In post 661, bob3141 wrote:
In post 641, Malakittens wrote:I hate to say it but I’m still ok with a Dunn lynch. As much as I didn’t like BM’s posts.. the SG flop is going to be a turn off right now in terms of voting there until I sort that out. Gera is off the table for today, but note I’m not sold on him being scum
Or town. He’s really null for me; the same with NM.

My gut feeling is that dun is town. As i just can't see scum blatantly making blank votes on a player claiming to scum read him and the other going wagon. It feels too blatant for scum. Would have thought that if he is scum then he would have tried dressing it up, instead he simply posts a series of quotes and doesn't say why they lead him to scum reading not mafia.

Would scum real vote for someone when their last comment on that player was that he had in fact had no read on them. If he was scum i would have expected something along the lines of something between a few short sentences to several paragraphs.
I can totally see scum making blank votes. The fact he’s being cyrpitc and won’t explain his votes makes me think there’s no case to begin with and he’s hiding behind blank votes.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #681 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:41 am

Post by Dunnstral »

My case is that his posts suck and he has no reason for his vote in the first place
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Post Post #682 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:44 am

Post by Malakittens »

What was the reasoning behind your vote on me then?
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #683 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:51 am

Post by notscience »

Beetle juice
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Post Post #684 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:27 am

Post by farside22 »

In post 661, bob3141 wrote:
In post 641, Malakittens wrote:I hate to say it but I’m still ok with a Dunn lynch. As much as I didn’t like BM’s posts.. the SG flop is going to be a turn off right now in terms of voting there until I sort that out. Gera is off the table for today, but note I’m not sold on him being scum
Or town. He’s really null for me; the same with NM.

My gut feeling is that dun is town. As i just can't see scum blatantly making blank votes on a player claiming to scum read him and the other going wagon. It feels too blatant for scum. Would have thought that if he is scum then he would have tried dressing it up, instead he simply posts a series of quotes and doesn't say why they lead him to scum reading not mafia.

Would scum real vote for someone when their last comment on that player was that he had in fact had no read on them. If he was scum i would have expected something along the lines of something between a few short sentences to several paragraphs.
Just something I have learned over the years. Never assume what scum would do or say given a situation. Players can fake reads, use emotions, talk out of their ass or be completely honest. I go based on what makes sense in the game. I question those reads to see if they are valid. Hence why scum players hate me.
I know you weren't alive during the time but ABR faked claim a cop claim and I caught that it was fake due to timing and his unvote and how many players said, well I don't see why scum would do that. So that's my brain in a nutshell. Reread Dunn's iso and ask yourself did he ever explain his scum read on Mala and about the discrepancy where he scum read vot and hk for the same reason.
Why was it scummy for mala when he stated the same thing?
In post 666, notscience wrote:
In post 636, farside22 wrote:I feel like my read on NS should change......I know that sounds odd, but i just finished a game where a player says all the things that sound right but still that weird ringing sound is in the back of your head saying. NO DON'T BUY IT!!
I’m town as fuck farside

I’m sorry that’s the only thing I can say atm! I’ll weigh in soon

It’s been 24 hours since clidd said he’d give reads btw
I'm not chasing you for my thoughts. I don't see that you did anything scummy just those gut twinges that sneak in there.
In post 668, notscience wrote:
In post 592, stungun0404 wrote:So far, I feel good in asserting these players as more likely town than not: Not Science, farside, Dr. Pepper, Mala
Gut is also leaning town with Bob.

That means I think in all likelihood all scum have to be in this group of 7 players {NM, geraintm, GC, HK, Dunnstral, votato, BM}
Catching up a bit more accurately and it’s weird the whole gang is in these town leans but idk if it’s gamblers fallacy or what
In post 671, notscience wrote:
In post 612, farside22 wrote:I will say one thing I disagreed with and the tone of GC is normal for that type of player.
Pls clarify is this agreeing with my stance or disagreeing I’m confused what you’re trying to say
In post 674, notscience wrote:I’m caught up

Stun gun is very wordy and I think it’s weird he asked the robot to be less though but I’m not sure it’s AI or not but man that guy can type some long posts

Mala why is my read progression re you town if you said yourself you expected to be tunneled all game
In post 678, notscience wrote:I’m flip flopping on voteto

I think mala town
Far town
Stun town
Gc town
Robot town

I’m nulltown reading bm?
Idk about dp
I was going to say something till I saw your list. Did you check GC's meta that was referenced?

I thought reading GC that he was getting mad about his push and it was reading like he was offended that he even had to explain himself. But after researching his meta and rereading his points on BM I'm feeling differently about GC. He recent games are town so far (I didn't check older games) and he is more laid back and not this bitchy typically. Or this full of himself so I'm now leaning more towards a scum read. Plus I feel like he is being a bit over the top on his read and reaction to BM.

So my weird scum reads are Dunn and GC
my unsure pile geraintm, HK 50, Malakittens, notscience
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
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Post Post #685 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:34 am

Post by stungun0404 »

In post 579, Not_Mafia wrote:Mage(BM)/votato/Dunn
Close nm, but I think the scumteam is BM-Votato-HK. There is a clear link there, and I'm going to explain what I see there soon.
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Post Post #686 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:55 am

Post by Not_Mafia »

Why has the BM slot not been lynched yet?
Also, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.
I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
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Post Post #687 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:03 am

Post by Green Crayons »

Makes you think.
"This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is 'actually' innocent." In re Davis, 557 U.S. 952, 955 (2009) (Scalia, J., dissenting).
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Post Post #688 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:03 am

Post by Green Crayons »

Makes you think.
"This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is 'actually' innocent." In re Davis, 557 U.S. 952, 955 (2009) (Scalia, J., dissenting).
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Post Post #689 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:04 am

Post by Green Crayons »

Whoa double posting goodness.
"This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is 'actually' innocent." In re Davis, 557 U.S. 952, 955 (2009) (Scalia, J., dissenting).
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Post Post #690 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:05 am

Post by Green Crayons »

In post 681, Dunnstral wrote:My case is that his posts suck and he has no reason for his vote in the first place
Looks like you’re voting him based on posting style.
"This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is 'actually' innocent." In re Davis, 557 U.S. 952, 955 (2009) (Scalia, J., dissenting).
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Post Post #691 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:12 am

Post by Malakittens »

VOTE: clidd

Be willing to vote for Dunn.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #692 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:05 am

Post by stungun0404 »

In post 663, HK 50 wrote:I'm sorry, but I'm not really motivated rn with this game (and I'm not white sure why). I'll try to self-motivated myself tonight.
Are you demotivated
because
you are scum?

Eerily, Clidd also said he would post reads within 24 hours, but we have now given them >36 hours and still nothing. He said “I’ll post tomorrow” in , but never did. We should hold him accountable, as I'd think town would have posted why there's been nothing by now and not waste time.
In post 681, Dunnstral wrote:My case is that his posts suck and he has no reason for his vote in the first place
Dunn, BM is very scummy because of his vote on Votato. He takes my NAI analysis and twists it so that it is AI on Votato himself and votes Votato based off of how he twisted it in . However, later he has absolutely no explanation to give about this when put on the spot by GC, given his which can be taken as "give me some time to come up with a good answer for this, because I don't have one right now". Definitely has the feel of scum looking to buy time. Wouldn't a townplayer be able to answer GC's simple question in right away regarding why my NAI analysis was AI out of
pure
conviction? What about that does not make him scum looking to buy time for themselves to explain something unreasonable?


The eventual explanation he provides is weak sauce too, in

Why do I think he concluded that it was in fact AI/Votato was scummy? I think they are scumpartners, and BM needed some reason to join the Votato wagon, as there were already 3 votes there (Mala/me/Bob), and obviously scum at some point has to join a wagon on their own to distance in case a lynch happens!

If GC and I can agree on BM!scum after I really thought GC was scum earlier, then there really must be something to this that others should consider.
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Post Post #693 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:10 am

Post by stungun0404 »

* His original explanation; noting that BM had another one in , but it did take him a long time to actually voice it.

On another note, I have luckily found enough time the last handful of days to build individual cases with a spoiler each of evidence on why each of BM/Clidd-Votato and HK are linked. I silently gathered evidence after getting a suspicion about them being linked Thursday before I finally convinced myself well enough to question them yesterday. I will submit the cases I have gathered here in a minute.
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Post Post #694 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:13 am

Post by stungun0404 »

Let's start with a Votato!Scumteam Case. Through his posts is where it all starts making sense! Even though he was a null read for me, he’s the link that makes so much sense between my two biggest scumleans of HK and BM/Clidd.

The Votato post is easily the longest of the three, b/c there’s the most evidence, so be prepared this one's a bit longer than the others.

There’s also reason to believe Dunnstral is town from this evidence.


Spoiler: Scumteam Case from Votato's posts
Look at this, the first RVS vote from Votato:
In post 9, votato wrote:VOTE: hk 50 i know that you're really an assassin droid
Instance attempt at a distancing vote? Note the wording: I "know" that you are really an "assassin droid".

How can you "know" that he is an "assassin droid" unless you are, in fact, scum with him?

Dunnstral even called this out in , of all players, which completely makes sense from a town!Dunnstral perspective.
In post 20, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 16, farside22 wrote:Town or scum im enjoying hk-50 commitment for posting style.
He's scum with votato, but I'll let him live for being amusing
Dunnstral clarified later to farside that he vaguely saw that as a partner post. I can see it that way too.

Then there is also a reason to link BM with Votato, also based off Votato's posting: Votato did vote Battle Mage early on too. He even voteparked there early on for 25 posts in his ISO (so if BM was lynched that could serve as distancing). However, when it counted most it seems that he has, in fact, been resistant to that wagon. This is in spite of expressing "a willingness to lynch there" in
In post 457, votato wrote:VOTE: crayons there are no current good wagons, my vote is on BM as a placeholder ffs.
Votato votes GC, sheeping me because of my good case, as mentioned in Votato's . However, scum has incentive to use me as a shield to themselves so that they are the ones that are not at fault after a mislynch. Assuming GC!town, Votato can deny responsibility because I was the one who made the push, and him the one that sheeped it.

in one post Votato says, while his vote sheeps me on GC:
In post 555, votato wrote:yeah at this point im fine with a GC or BM lynch.
But then when I flip to BM, Votato proves this wrong because he starts defending BM, and not flipping to vote him with me.
In post 585, stungun0404 wrote:VOTE: BM

I am starting to get a sense that he is the true scum between him/GC; the lack of proactivity/genuine scumhunting from him is pretty damning.
The very next post, Votato says:
In post 586, votato wrote:Gc why do you want to flip bm if you think he'll flip town?
This distracts away from my BM vote, all the while allowing himself to defend the GC vote even more, and bringing attention to the player I flipped from, GC, calling him out on an inconsistency.

In essence, Votato is defending BM subtly, and has expressed no willingness in his ISO since then to move over to him, even though he declared at an earlier point "I am fine lynching either of BM or GC." His actions suggest otherwise. It suggests that perhaps Votato is afraid of moving over to BM, because that would make a majority wagon, as it would cause a tie in votes between BM and Dunnstral. This would cause BM, in turn, to be considered more seriously by others. Seems like a natural reaction that could happen when one is presented with the chance to put a partner of their's in danger.
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Post Post #695 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:15 am

Post by stungun0404 »

Next, a very short case on association from HK50's posts. HK has really not talked at all about either of Votato or BM in a scummy sense, but also doesn't really appear to be truly scumhunting in general. So that is something to keep an eye on.

Further, HK is on the counterwagon of Dunnstral, which could be seen as protecting a potential partner in Clidd/BM.

HK is only voting Dunnstral, per his because "he agrees with what has been said about him." This is a lazy sheep vote. Does that seem like genuine scumhunting to you? Especially since he's voteparked there?

Spoiler: Scumteam Case from HK's posts
HK interestingly utilized my interactions with Votato against me to support cases that are a bit of a stretch about me being scum, in his .

Further, HK also conveniently flipped on his early town indication on me he expressed in , saying that he "felt better about me" because he thinks I used "bad townie logic." But then, suddenly in , in my interactions with Votato, he frames it so that he can make me look scummier AND concludes nothing negative on Votato, perhaps making his partner look better?
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Post Post #696 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:18 am

Post by stungun0404 »

Finally, from the BM/Clidd angle, which is long like the Votato one, but all but seals the deal on this scumteam for me.

Spoiler: Scumteam Case from BM's posts
First note: when the Votato wagon was a thing. Guess who was on the wagon? That's right! Battle Mage joined it 4th (after Mala/me/Bob) and did so with very weak reasoning in his , while HK remained on Dunnstral (the majority wagon with limited pushback). This holds true to the theory of scum having to distance on a possible majority wagon on a partner, but also having to join a wagon on a partner.
In post 193, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 191, stungun0404 wrote:I am currently a few pages into reading, but would like to make a request. @HK50, I love your posting style -- so nothing against it -- but could you possibly use less sophisticated words to get your points across? I can understand what you are saying if I really spend time looking into your every post, but it is very hard to read some of your posts on the surface.

Another reason I ask this is because using a ton of more complicated words makes it more difficult than normal to read your intentions. This posting style could be extremely effective for scum to hide behind, because it is an easy way for them to blanket their intentions, because a lot more effort is needed than typical to truly ***ess their motives.

And if you are town, then it should make sense why this could become an issue. Because if people are having to spend too much time looking at a townplayer's posts to unpack their motives, it takes away from their focus of scumhunting, which absolutely could lead us down the wrong path in the long run.
I completely agree with this, his posts are pretty unreadable for me too because of the format. But I also think it's a very conspicuous posting style and a lot of effort for scum to keep up with minimal value, so slight townlean.
Like, if scum, why bother?
Battle Mage also sticks up for HK here. And is interestingly the first and only if I remember correctly to stick up for him there.
In post 343, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 315, Green Crayons wrote:Votato votes are lazy. I bet one of y'all are scum.
Challenge accepted!

VOTE: Votato

I like the meta analysis by stungun, clearly nobody is getting behind Green Crayons, and I think I'm townleaning Dunnstral. And seriously, voting BM on Day 1? This dude has run out of ideas... :lol:
Here is the weak reason BM joined the Votato wagon: it was after interpreting my NAI meta analysis to be
AI
. That is a stretch. Is it because they are scum partners?

In post 346, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 321, Green Crayons wrote:
@Votato:
are you a pathetic *** scum?
A little harsh, but I did employ some artistic licence :lol:

On serious note,
Green Crayons queuing up Votato for some dodgy self-meta; 2 scum down?
BM sets up a GC link to Votato, interestingly, perhaps to mislynch later if Votato flips?

In post 405, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 389, stungun0404 wrote:Does anyone have experience with scum Dunnstral? I have only played with town Dunnstral as scum to my recollection (2 times).

I know that as town he is not the hardest player to sort, but he still is a little bit tricky. He is easier to sort than nm for sure.

Also, he might get easier by the day, but he also might not. So I am not totally against a lynch there, but would just prefer to keep him in for two reasons. One is he is one of the few players I have experience with, so I might be able to read him better as the game progresses. And two, I do not really find what he has done so far to be super scummy, and if anything the push against him gives me a slight intuition he might be town. I could be wrong there, and I would like to see him post more, but I am not super suspicious.

I do think it is very likely, however, that if one Votato/Dunn is scum, the other is not, and should be ***umed to be town. I just don't see them as connected, as votato has made very little mention of Dunn in his posts and Dunn throwing votato out of the blue as a scum partner to someone... wouldn't seem like the smartest plan if they were scum partners? I mean, that's a little bold, drawing that much attention to you
and
your partner?
I've seen scum-Dunnstral once. He tried harder than this and seemed more engaged in a game where he replaced in maybe 60 pages deep - definitely feels town here. Agree with top half of your post, last para doesn't sound right to me. In my recent experience, scum often make little mention of their buddies to avoid ***ociations being drawn.
But lynching Vot-scum first is the play, and then decide whether to bite for his stungun 'slip'. Gut says probably not
. :cop:
He still is sheeping me on Votato because of my "meta analysis", but he again is the only one to throw out the possibility of Votato and me in fact being scum together, actually taking Votato's "slip" post somewhat seriously, which is so called a "slip" because of these posts from Votato:
In post 391, votato wrote:i have a little but i cant talk about it. by day 2 or 3 ill probably give some more details. as for the ***ociation you're drawing between me and dunn, stun, you're right that we aren't scumbuddies, but i dont think your reasons why are all that strong.
plus the only reason you know that is cuz you and i are scumbuddies
.
In post 392, votato wrote:*** wrong thread.
Finally, the icing on the cake:
In post 404, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 391, votato wrote:i have a little but i cant talk about it. by day 2 or 3 ill probably give some more details. as for the association you're drawing between me and dunn, stun, you're right that we aren't scumbuddies, but i dont think your reasons why are all that strong. plus the only reason you know that is cuz you and i are scumbuddies.
In post 392, votato wrote:*** wrong thread.
:lol:

Last time I saw something like this it flipped town, but what can ya do!? :lol:
He uses this scumslip for reason to townread Votato :lol:



I am convinced this is the scum team. I think we should lynch them consecutively.

Also note all three of Votato, BM and GC have weakly sheep-voted people, using players as shields.
Votato sheeping me immediately onto GC, BM very weakly sheeping me onto Votato, and HK weakly sheeping Farside and others onto Dunnstral without bringing any new evidence to the table regarding Dunnstral!scum.

Thus, it seems voting Clidd is the right move here.
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farside22
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Post Post #697 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:18 am

Post by farside22 »

Hun im not letting go of my vote on dunn till he explains his scum read on mala and why what she said was scummy when he thought the same thing.
If you continue to let him bypass that he will continue to do shit fucking all to explain
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
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stungun0404
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Post Post #698 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:24 am

Post by stungun0404 »

In post 697, farside22 wrote:Hun im not letting go of my vote on dunn till he explains his scum read on mala and why what she said was scummy when he thought the same thing.
If you continue to let him bypass that he will continue to do shit fucking all to explain
I can understand why you feel that way, but have you played with Dunnstral where he was town before? I know he does things like that sometimes which make him lynchbait as town. I remember two games, in fact, where he seemed like an easy mislynch in games where I was scum.
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Post Post #699 (ISO) » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:39 am

Post by stungun0404 »

Did a cursory look over what I posted and wanted to add something to the BK one:
He used the supposed scumslip for reason to townread Votato
while still voting Votato
. :lol:

I got somewhere to be; I'll see you guys later!
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