Newbie 2010: Pride Month | Game Over

[Homura]

I really hate how much of the day Homura has spent not voting

VOTE: Homura

My lynch pool today is Hectic, Gibus, Homura. It seems significant that Hectic and Gibus are both at -2 and that both of those wagons built up quickly at EOD and they're voting each other. Surely both aren't scum together but it makes me paranoid that neither is scum. However, this could also just be because town finally realized there's a need to collapse onto a lynch at this point after my wagon fell apart?

I think we need to scrutinize the people who hopped off of my wagon and onto one of Gibus or Hectic with very little reason or commitment, so... Hectic or Umlaut?

Right now I'm scumreading Hectic more than Gibus. I realized that I misread Gibus's post about elmo and think that it is actually rather town of him to go against some vocal town leaders and give Elmo a town read. Obviously, Elmo wasn't even around enough to consider that a good target for pocketing, and there were plenty of low hanging fruit posts there to park an easy vote. Since I know for a fact that my slot is town, I also know for a fact that he wasn't doing it to protect a scum buddy. My suspicion is still largely based on the way Gibus switched around at the end of the day to 2 people in his POE which he's never provided a reason to scum read, and eagerly await his response.

This is a really strange vote considering you haven't indicated an inkling of what your progression on my slot might be and your explanation for doing so in 384 seems disingenuous. What exactly were you hoping to get out of me?

[Nauci]

I really hate how much of the day Homura has spent not voting

VOTE: Homura

My lynch pool today is Hectic, Gibus, Homura. It seems significant that Hectic and Gibus are both at -2 and that both of those wagons built up quickly at EOD and they're voting each other. Surely both aren't scum together but it makes me paranoid that neither is scum. However, this could also just be because town finally realized there's a need to collapse onto a lynch at this point after my wagon fell apart?

I think we need to scrutinize the people who hopped off of my wagon and onto one of Gibus or Hectic with very little reason or commitment, so... Hectic or Umlaut?

Right now I'm scumreading Hectic more than Gibus. I realized that I misread Gibus's post about elmo and think that it is actually rather town of him to go against some vocal town leaders and give Elmo a town read. Obviously, Elmo wasn't even around enough to consider that a good target for pocketing, and there were plenty of low hanging fruit posts there to park an easy vote. Since I know for a fact that my slot is town, I also know for a fact that he wasn't doing it to protect a scum buddy. My suspicion is still largely based on the way Gibus switched around at the end of the day to 2 people in his POE which he's never provided a reason to scum read, and eagerly await his response.

This is a really strange vote considering you haven't indicated an inkling of what your progression on my slot might be and your explanation for doing so in 384 seems disingenuous. What exactly were you hoping to get out of me?

I assume you meant 385 when you said 384?

I have a null read on you based on your posting, but I find it scummy that you've not been using your vote the entire time. I wanted you to explain why you have not been using your vote to pressure and scum hunt, as well as more commentary on the recent developments before EOD, and I thought that voting you might successfully cause you to do so. Plus, I like to use my vote to get something done at all times but wasn't ready to put either of the other two at L-1 yet, so I voted the last person in my POE.

I definitely admit that this can look strange, but I really don't think it can be construed as scummy as scum have every motivation right now to pick one of the 2 existing wagons this close to end of day when obviously one of them would have to be town if I were scum.

So, take my post at face value: I don't like that you haven't been voting and want to know why.

[Nauci]

Raya, do you have any scumreads?

ghost as my scumread right now. Pi is my strongest townread as well.

Which reminds me I should do this:
VOTE: Ghost

This vote on my slot would be a ballsy move for scum considering that at this point my slot from the perspective of the scum team was already being townread/seemed like a slot that would obv quickly.

From the perspective of scum, scumreading a top townread is a viable option to keep town disorganised. It maybe a ballsy move to do as scum, but that can't be a reason to townread an experienced player IMO.

I don't get 289, gibus. Scumreading a top town attracts a lot of unwarranted attention. Where have you seen scum do this before as a strategy?

I was talking about this game in particular, not a general thing.
Where else can scum try to shoot at?

Gibus, regardless of the fact that you changed your mind, I want to know what you were thinking at the time when you made these posts.

Why did you say that your point about keeping town disorganized applied to this game in particular?

[Nauci]

Endometriosis is killing me right now and all I want to do is pop some meds and head to bed but I'm staying up trying to solve this game before deadline lol

Please hurry up with the responses already kthxbai

[Homura]

So, take my post at face value: I don't like that you haven't been voting and want to know why.

Take it as a matter of circumstance, I guess? I generally vote only after having a degree of certainty in my reads, and I have been lacking a concrete scumread for most of the dayphase up until the point where I ghost voted your slot. But I'm hard-pressed to see why abstaining from voting entirely is scum-indicative.

[Homura]

FMPOV, the fact that both opposing wagons have traction should indicate that it's not a single scum player driving the game.

[Snowblaze]

I definitely prefer lynching gibus to Hectic at this point. I feel like there's something that can be worked out from the speed at which both of these wagons were built up, but I'm not sure what it is, at least not yet.

Anyway, it's probably close enough to deadline that I should be doing this: VOTE: gibus, L-1.

[gibus]

Endometriosis is killing me right now and all I want to do is pop some meds and head to bed but I'm staying up trying to solve this game before deadline lol

Please hurry up with the responses already kthxbai

Oh right, I was taking a shower. I'm here

Raya, do you have any scumreads?

ghost as my scumread right now. Pi is my strongest townread as well.

Which reminds me I should do this:
VOTE: Ghost

This vote on my slot would be a ballsy move for scum considering that at this point my slot from the perspective of the scum team was already being townread/seemed like a slot that would obv quickly.

From the perspective of scum, scumreading a top townread is a viable option to keep town disorganised. It maybe a ballsy move to do as scum, but that can't be a reason to townread an experienced player IMO.

I don't get 289, gibus. Scumreading a top town attracts a lot of unwarranted attention. Where have you seen scum do this before as a strategy?

I was talking about this game in particular, not a general thing.
Where else can scum try to shoot at?

Gibus, regardless of the fact that you changed your mind, I want to know what you were thinking at the time when you made these posts.

Why did you say that your point about keeping town disorganized applied to this game in particular?

I was thinking about scenarios where scum could go after GG, in contrast to Snow's thought.
I haven't played a lot of games so I don't know if it's a general thing. But I thought it can apply to this game since it was a low information lurkfest without a town leader (GG was close, which is bad for scum).

Outside of that interaction with Hectic, why do you think he's scum?

I feel good about the other slots.
I don't think motivation is AI, certainly not 2 pages into the game (in Elmo's case at least), Elmo is pretty active as scum and that's something Hectic didn't take into account. I believe that this is most probably a bad faith push. I don't like how he hops onto my wagon just because I think he's scum. 360 also gives me scum pings.

[Homura]

I have a null read on you based on your posting, but I find it scummy that you've not been using your vote the entire time. I wanted you to explain why you have not been using your vote to pressure and scum hunt, as well as more commentary on the recent developments before EOD, and I thought that voting you might successfully cause you to do so. Plus, I like to use my vote to get something done at all times but wasn't ready to put either of the other two at L-1 yet, so I voted the last person in my POE.

I definitely admit that this can look strange, but I really don't think it can be construed as scummy as scum have every motivation right now to pick one of the 2 existing wagons this close to end of day when obviously one of them would have to be town if I were scum.

I mean, when you essentially naked vote me a day before deadline and the rest of your post is about why players other than me are scummy, I'd gather only that you scumread me and are willing to end the day with my lynch. It felt like you would have voted Umlaut and asked me the questions you did in this post, but instead you went about it in this roundabout way — provoking me to ask you first before pressuring me — and I just find it difficult to see this coming from a town-motivated perspective.

I don't think your defense WRT the competing wagons holds water when scum generally prefers not to be limited to choosing between their partner and a townie.

[gibus]

I definitely prefer lynching gibus to Hectic at this point. I feel like there's something that can be worked out from the speed at which both of these wagons were built up, but I'm not sure what it is, at least not yet.

Anyway, it's probably close enough to deadline that I should be doing this: VOTE: gibus, L-1.

Why though?
I'm not sure why I'm being scumread right now.

[Snowblaze]

I definitely prefer lynching gibus to Hectic at this point. I feel like there's something that can be worked out from the speed at which both of these wagons were built up, but I'm not sure what it is, at least not yet.

Anyway, it's probably close enough to deadline that I should be doing this: VOTE: gibus, L-1.

Why though?
I'm not sure why I'm being scumread right now.

I explained earlier:

I'm starting to lean towards a possible scum!gibus

Why?

Well, other than the initial weak townlean you haven't really given me any reason to think you're town, and then what M2H and Nauci said about your read on Raya is making me suspicious. I'll need to read back through your ISO to get a solid read, though. Will do that now!

Your ISO didn't give me enough to doubt that initial impression. I'm not

convinced

, but I think you're more likely to be scum than Hectic right now, and there probably wouldn't be time for an alternate wagon.

[gibus]

@Nauci, @Hectic, in response to 402, the thought may have come from here. Polandball was similar in terms of activity and not having a town leader.

[Nauci]

So, take my post at face value: I don't like that you haven't been voting and want to know why.

Take it as a matter of circumstance, I guess? I generally vote only after having a degree of certainty in my reads, and I have been lacking a concrete scumread for most of the dayphase up until the point where I ghost voted your slot. But I'm hard-pressed to see why abstaining from voting entirely is scum-indicative.

I have a null read on you based on your posting, but I find it scummy that you've not been using your vote the entire time. I wanted you to explain why you have not been using your vote to pressure and scum hunt, as well as more commentary on the recent developments before EOD, and I thought that voting you might successfully cause you to do so. Plus, I like to use my vote to get something done at all times but wasn't ready to put either of the other two at L-1 yet, so I voted the last person in my POE.

I definitely admit that this can look strange, but I really don't think it can be construed as scummy as scum have every motivation right now to pick one of the 2 existing wagons this close to end of day when obviously one of them would have to be town if I were scum.

I mean, when you essentially naked vote me a day before deadline and the rest of your post is about why players other than me are scummy, I'd gather only that you scumread me and are willing to end the day with my lynch. It felt like you would have voted Umlaut and asked me the questions you did in this post, but instead you went about it in this roundabout way — provoking me to ask you first before pressuring me — and I just find it difficult to see this coming from a town-motivated perspective.

I don't think your defense WRT the competing wagons holds water when scum generally prefers not to be limited to choosing between their partner and a townie.

My previous comments about voting answers both of these.

For town, even for Town PR, your vote is your number 1 scum hunting tool. It's used to apply pressure to various players in order to provoke reactions which will generally be a lot more alignment indicative than just "ghost voting" (side note, I feel like everyone in this game thought you were asking Ghost to vote in that post instead of saying you were suspecting someone). Talking about and scumreading people generally won't provoke useful reactions the way that bringing someone to L-2 would, and even individual votes can really bring in people's attention.

In addition, voting record and history is something that is easier to check in the later stages of the game. We will end up skimming ISOs looking for votes and the interactions around those, we will analyze the history and events around this game by looking at the vote counts from the mod and correlating them with game events and flips.

So, not choosing to vote is anti town because it is depriving us of a way to drive the game forward, whether it's forcing lurkers to participate more, or forcing scum to get anxious or panicky, or giving the rest of us insight into what reads you are committing to.

It can be scummy because by not joining the various wagons or committing to any other vote, you can skate by under the radar and not attract as much attention. You escape being asked to justify your votes and certainly escape a lot of later game scrutiny.

I think that your responses to and about me have shown that even my lone vote on you has had the desired effect of calling you into participating when you may have otherwise lurked.

With that said, I now contest your casting of my vote as "naked" because your lack of voting pinged me the entire time for the reasons above. I concede that the notion of not voting unless you're sure someone is scum is a common one among new players though and I did the same thing in my first forum mafia games (on a different, private forum), so I'll give that explanation some credence for now and ask that you change your practice from here on out.

[Nauci]

I definitely prefer lynching gibus to Hectic at this point. I feel like there's something that can be worked out from the speed at which both of these wagons were built up, but I'm not sure what it is, at least not yet.

Anyway, it's probably close enough to deadline that I should be doing this: VOTE: gibus, L-1.

Why though?
I'm not sure why I'm being scumread right now.

I explained earlier:

I'm starting to lean towards a possible scum!gibus

Why?

Well, other than the initial weak townlean you haven't really given me any reason to think you're town, and then what M2H and Nauci said about your read on Raya is making me suspicious. I'll need to read back through your ISO to get a solid read, though. Will do that now!

Your ISO didn't give me enough to doubt that initial impression. I'm not

convinced

, but I think you're more likely to be scum than Hectic right now, and there probably wouldn't be time for an alternate wagon.

Let's say that hypothetically there is enough time to form an alternate wagon. Who are you scumreading and why?

[Nauci]

also gives me scum pings.

Can you tell me what that post means because I couldn't decipher it and thought it was just another trolly one

[gibus]

also gives me scum pings.

Can you tell me what that post means because I couldn't decipher it and thought it was just another trolly one

Hectic told me not to reveal that. But it isn't that which gives me the pings, it's the line below.

[Nauci]

If you're referring to the gibberish, that's not what I'm talking about

I mean the substance of that post

First, I just figured out like 20 minutes ago that he's talking about you when he says Busi, but I still don't know what he's talking about wrt your previous have and therefore don't understand the inferences than drawn from it. Can you tl;Dr that for me?

[gibus]

If you're referring to the gibberish, that's not what I'm talking about

I mean the substance of that post

First, I just figured out like 20 minutes ago that he's talking about you when he says Busi, but I still don't know what he's talking about wrt your previous have and therefore don't understand the inferences than drawn from it. Can you tl;Dr that for me?

This was the previous game. I was scum and Hectic nailed the scum team down in D1.
But the line does not hold true (389).

[keyenpeydee]

Vote count 1.14

The POC-inclusive Gay Pride Flag

---

(L-1) gibus

- M2H, Raya36, Hectic, Snowblaze,

(L-2) Hectic

- piisirrational, gibus, Umlaut,

(1) Homura

- Nauci,

(1) Not Voting

- Homura,

MOD NOTES

: Day has been extended for 2 days. Good luck to everybody!
With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch. Day One will end in

(expired on 2020-06-21 10:30:00)

.
#BlackLivesMatter

[Nauci]

Okay so

On my first read of the game, I was somewhat confused by the constant trolling posts from Hectic (also, I feel like gimmicks are slightly more likely from scum to cover up meta differences), and really wasn't and to follow their reads and progression as I read along, so they were null and in my POE. Once I corrected my misunderstanding about Gibus's read on Elmo, I had him as less scummy and was about to vote Hectic, but then decided I didn't want to put him at L-1 just because of a lack of town read.

I have since gone and read Hectic's ISO again and, successfully skipping the trolling, I see more genuine town lines of thinking and trying to figure out the game and felt a lot better about him. I also reread Umlaut's ISO and I'm still not sure how I feel about the slot, but I somewhat bought his case on Hectic for a bit.

So then I'm still confused on the slot, so... I skimmed Hoctac's ISO from the game that Gibus linked, particularly looking for what gave scumbbus away to Hoctac (I didn't see much? Hundreds of posts fighting with Battle Mage before a rather sudden turn into Gibus and getting him lynched at the end of d1). Then I skimmed Gibus's ISO there to see what he's like as scum.

After all of that, I finally feel confident enough to decide that Gibus is the more likely to be scum among my PoE.

Among the reasons for that is that I was scum in 2004 with Gibus, where he was town reading me pretty much the whole time because I was absolutely exhausting myself with how hard I was trying to sound town. He outright said this game that he'd be more paranoid about me this time around. But... Instead of doing so, he continues his town read of Elmo and doesn't include me in his POE at all? I find the lack of paranoia and desire to lynch hectic while there's town momentum for it much more likely to come from Scum Gibus than Town Gibus. Also, there wasn't any especially deep or long-running chains of thought in his ISO that Scum Gibus would have trouble faking.

@Gibus, consider this my intent to hammer in approximately 10-12 hours from now.

[gibus]

OK

I'm a VT

[Snowblaze]

@Nauci... I don’t really have scum reads, which makes my null reads (gibus, Homura, Umlaut) suspicious by POE. I was scumreading Elmo before you replaced her, but I don’t want to lynch you today. Partly because getting the game moving is very useful for town, partly because I’d feel too bad about lynching someone who’s only just replaced in, partly because I think I’m starting to townread you.

[Hectic]

I had a good feeling gibus was

Hated

and was trying to hammer him... that's a shame.

[Hectic]

Will catchup before deadline. For now though; Umalut, what's your progression on me?

One of Nauci or Hectic is probably scum

Why do you think this?

I'd also vote Umlaut. He's constantly been a bottom 2 or 3 read for me this game. Feels a little like he did in this game, and not like this game.

[Hectic]

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