Mini Normal 2148 (Post Game)

[farside22]

If I disregard my feelings about you, that team would have to imply that town has not had any scum pressure for the last few days it seems. Either:
That is the case and the team HAS to be that,

Scum is fine with the status quo and is not eager to move away and slash or are fine to bus a partner (dunn/clidd) potentially. Which I buy more for occ. Razor.

Votato I have an independent gut town read. The shenanigans by him like the wrong thread post are normal across both metas as a bad attempt at shitposting. I townread him mainly based on the progression of stuff like 650 (iirc that's the right post number) where he declares it is wishy washy to pressure farside. I think scumvotato would of gone around it differently then to discredit his own position in the thread. I also dont think there was much agency by him during yours and his interaction to find someone to scum read. His slow going nature points to town.

Clidd really has nothing AI. BM I dont really have a read on. I came to a realization that trying to use my meta knowledge about him is flawed due to his entrance and comparing it to the newbie game he referenced losing. I think there is a potential that he's playing against meta based on some inconsistencies from what his take away was that game to here and more importantly the remark "I just lost a town game where I did analysis wow!"

I feel the bold to be pretty spot on. I think if dunn was town he would have been an easy lynch. His vote on nm is lazy as that is how nm is and he avoids discussing anything relevant.

This vote situation appears tricky...

It's 4 vs. 4, and 3 more votes are needed to secure either lynch. The 2 sides seem pretty set overall. Off of the wagons, we have 2 of my scumspects I don't think will move (Clidd and Votato), and then Geraintm and Dunn who are on useless wagons right now.

This means that, ultimately, I feel either of our wagons can only trust bob right now to break the tie. But still, the leading wagon will need two more votes from there to lynch.

Thus, I feel like we're going to have to strike a deal between the two sides, then, or we might have trouble lynching. So, I tell you what:

@Farside, @Dr. Pepper, @NS

, since I trust you are all three town, would you guys be willing to potentially move over and lynch Clidd this day phase provided that I promise you that we lynch either Dunn or Votato next day phase?

@HK

, even though I am not set on you being town, I will extend this offer to you as well.

Now, the reason I include Votato there with Dunn is the obvious association that Votato has with BM that we will have to take into account when lynching tomorrow, provided a Clidd scumflip. If Clidd flukily flips town, we lynch Dunn, guaranteed tomorrow.

We do not currently have a clear second lead with a lynch of Dunnstral, but we do with a lynch of Clidd. Both myself and NM (and I feel like maybe someone else but I don't remember who?) have found the interactions between BM and Votato to be like that of scumpartners. Thus, we could have the best future results in this game if we are correct on a BM scum lynch today. Wouldn't it be best to knock that out now and not have both Votato and BM alive tomorrow to still deal with as a potential pair? I mean, we could potentially start this game off with back-to-back scum lynches!

And I promise you, I will willingly sacrifice Dunnstral tomorrow if it comes down to that. I very adamantly do not want him to go today though because I suspect he is town, and I do not want a town mislynch on D1.

How about you join me on dunn.
Sorry the last player to make a promise like that lied to me so I tend to not make those agreements anymore.
If you want a gc lynch id be on there.

[farside22]

Hun im not letting go of my vote on dunn till he explains his scum read on mala and why what she said was sc
Considering your reads in that game where more ummy when he thought the same thing.
If you continue to let him bypass that he will continue to do shit fucking all to explain

I can understand why you feel that way, but have you played with Dunnstral where he was town before? I know he does things like that sometimes which make him lynchbait as town. I remember two games, in fact, where he seemed like an easy mislynch in games where I was scum.

Yes. We played animal mafia. Day 1 he put a player to l-1 as his first post. He came out a bit more that same game day and put thoughts that made sense and i stopped scum reading him shortly after.
Im not seeing anything similar her. So i will just blame you if hes scum this game since your on a taggent that is completely different then my own thoughts.

Hey guess what

All that came out at deadline when the entire rest of the town was failing to lynch anyone because I alone was inactive, and then I pulled out a lynch

Do I have to do the same thing here?

No. You rallied after the l-1, players pushed you and you responded. You lol'd the whole fucking thing off as why os that scummy.
This is a statement you made that contradicts you.

[bob3141]

Finally, from the BM/Clidd angle, which is long like the Votato one, but all but seals the deal on this scumteam for me.

Spoiler: Scumteam Case from BM's posts

First note: when the Votato wagon was a thing. Guess who was on the wagon? That's right! Battle Mage joined it 4th (after Mala/me/Bob) and did so with very weak reasoning in his 343, while HK remained on Dunnstral (the majority wagon with limited pushback). This holds true to the theory of scum having to distance on a possible majority wagon on a partner, but also having to join a wagon on a partner.

I am currently a few pages into reading, but would like to make a request. @HK50, I love your posting style -- so nothing against it -- but could you possibly use less sophisticated words to get your points across? I can understand what you are saying if I really spend time looking into your every post, but it is very hard to read some of your posts on the surface.

Another reason I ask this is because using a ton of more complicated words makes it more difficult than normal to read your intentions. This posting style could be extremely effective for scum to hide behind, because it is an easy way for them to blanket their intentions, because a lot more effort is needed than typical to truly ***ess their motives.

And if you are town, then it should make sense why this could become an issue. Because if people are having to spend too much time looking at a townplayer's posts to unpack their motives, it takes away from their focus of scumhunting, which absolutely could lead us down the wrong path in the long run.

I completely agree with this, his posts are pretty unreadable for me too because of the format. But I also think it's a very conspicuous posting style and a lot of effort for scum to keep up with minimal value, so slight townlean.

Like, if scum, why bother?

Battle Mage also sticks up for HK here. And is interestingly the first and only if I remember correctly to stick up for him there.

Votato votes are lazy. I bet one of y'all are scum.

Challenge accepted!

VOTE: Votato

I like the meta analysis by stungun, clearly nobody is getting behind Green Crayons, and I think I'm townleaning Dunnstral. And seriously, voting BM on Day 1? This dude has run out of ideas...

Here is the weak reason BM joined the Votato wagon: it was after interpreting my NAI meta analysis to be

AI

. That is a stretch. Is it because they are scum partners?

@Votato:

are you a pathetic *** scum?

A little harsh, but I did employ some artistic licence

On serious note,

Green Crayons queuing up Votato for some dodgy self-meta; 2 scum down?

BM sets up a GC link to Votato, interestingly, perhaps to mislynch later if Votato flips?

Does anyone have experience with scum Dunnstral? I have only played with town Dunnstral as scum to my recollection (2 times).

I know that as town he is not the hardest player to sort, but he still is a little bit tricky. He is easier to sort than nm for sure.

Also, he might get easier by the day, but he also might not. So I am not totally against a lynch there, but would just prefer to keep him in for two reasons. One is he is one of the few players I have experience with, so I might be able to read him better as the game progresses. And two, I do not really find what he has done so far to be super scummy, and if anything the push against him gives me a slight intuition he might be town. I could be wrong there, and I would like to see him post more, but I am not super suspicious.

I do think it is very likely, however, that if one Votato/Dunn is scum, the other is not, and should be ***umed to be town. I just don't see them as connected, as votato has made very little mention of Dunn in his posts and Dunn throwing votato out of the blue as a scum partner to someone... wouldn't seem like the smartest plan if they were scum partners? I mean, that's a little bold, drawing that much attention to you

and

your partner?

I've seen scum-Dunnstral once. He tried harder than this and seemed more engaged in a game where he replaced in maybe 60 pages deep - definitely feels town here. Agree with top half of your post, last para doesn't sound right to me. In my recent experience, scum often make little mention of their buddies to avoid ***ociations being drawn.

But lynching Vot-scum first is the play, and then decide whether to bite for his stungun 'slip'. Gut says probably not

.

He still is sheeping me on Votato because of my "meta analysis", but he again is the only one to throw out the possibility of Votato and me in fact being scum together, actually taking Votato's "slip" post somewhat seriously, which is so called a "slip" because of these posts from Votato:

i have a little but i cant talk about it. by day 2 or 3 ill probably give some more details. as for the ***ociation you're drawing between me and dunn, stun, you're right that we aren't scumbuddies, but i dont think your reasons why are all that strong.

plus the only reason you know that is cuz you and i are scumbuddies

.

*** wrong thread.

Finally, the icing on the cake:

i have a little but i cant talk about it. by day 2 or 3 ill probably give some more details. as for the association you're drawing between me and dunn, stun, you're right that we aren't scumbuddies, but i dont think your reasons why are all that strong. plus the only reason you know that is cuz you and i are scumbuddies.

*** wrong thread.

Last time I saw something like this it flipped town, but what can ya do!?

He uses this scumslip for reason to townread Votato

I am convinced this is the scum team. I think we should lynch them consecutively.

Also note all three of Votato, BM and GC have weakly sheep-voted people, using players as shields.

Votato sheeping me immediately onto GC, BM very weakly sheeping me onto Votato, and HK weakly sheeping Farside and others onto Dunnstral without bringing any new evidence to the table regarding Dunnstral!scum.

Thus, it seems voting Clidd is the right move here.

I can sort of see what you mean. BM vote on vota does look overly scummy to be made by scum unless scum wanted us to find it suspect.

It would explain why no one really tried to push vota after that. The wagon quickly broke up with new pushes on dun following its break up. If BM was scum and vota town i would have expected him to double down and continue pushing Vota but after his vote he doesn't do much in that regards. Instead he pushes a counter push on green. And he doesn't even push dun himself, in fact pushing a town read there.

It does feel sort of suspect looking back. Bm makes a scummy vote on vota. The vota wagon gets quickly abandoned and when he is benign suspect he makes a weak push on dun being town. All the while never really trying to explain how he managed to come to the opposite conclusion using one of your points. Until just before he repped out.

[HK 50]

Scum is fine with the status quo and is not eager to move away and slash or are fine to bus a partner (dunn/clidd) potentially. Which I buy more for occ. Razor.

Will address everything else later, but this particular take can be seen, not necessarily in bussing fashion, but in early voteparking fashion from the two I suspect to be partners: BM/Clidd and Votato. Because it is easier to put this in bold, I have chosen to quote farside's unofficial vote count and not one the mod made here.

unofficial vote count:

votato

(3): Malakittens, bob3141,

Battle Mage

Dunnstral (5): DoctorPepper, farside22, HK 50, notscience, stungun0404

Battle Mage

(3): Not_Mafia,

votato

, Green Crayons
notscience (1): geraintm
Malakittens (1): Dunnstral
Not voting (0):

Ask yourself this though about that vote count. Let's operate in the framework that votato and BM are scum together and Dunnstral is town. Plus note I just woke up, and did not review the context of that vote count in it's entirely although I do remember some of it.

You got a clear wagon in the form of Dunnstral for mafia to push. There's five people already on it, and the person being pushed isn't doing much on his own to get out of the lynch. Now then,

why would votato and BM enable themselves to be a counterwagon to Dunnstral by voting eachother?

Their votes pushes them into prime bandwagon spotlight without actually helping secure the easy mislynch supposedly in front of them.

That's the point with status quo I'm referring to for example. If Dunnstral is town, mafia status quo was already achieved there and they wouldnt open up that many more wagons, let alone on themselves. However, if Dunnstral is mafia, then scum

needs to redirect the wagons or bus him

. This is basic wagon dynamics.

(Note that I'm not saying Dunnstral has to be scum here based off that one VC, but rather if we applying what I meant to that particular VC then that would be the answer.)

[HK 50]

Votato votes are lazy. I bet one of y'all are scum.

Challenge accepted!

VOTE: Votato

I like the meta analysis by stungun, clearly nobody is getting behind Green Crayons, and I think I'm townleaning Dunnstral. And seriously, voting BM on Day 1? This dude has run out of ideas...

But let's further this notion that Votato and BM are scum together and Dunnstral is town. I just controlled F and BM first posts was analyzing Green Crayon (if I remember one of dunnstrals aggressors at the time) and then in this post supposedly votes his teammate and townleans the leading mislynch.

It's not unheard of in terms of scum play to townread the mislynch target, but normally it's not done to actively divert attention from it. Rather it's just posted to look good post flop to push yet another mislynch off the added town cred. Both the Green Crayon mini push and voting votato, who BM has experience with and knows his playstyle draws attention, compromises the suppose mafia agenda pretty hard.

[HK 50]

Finally, from the BM/Clidd angle, which is long like the Votato one, but all but seals the deal on this scumteam for me.

Spoiler: Scumteam Case from BM's posts

First note: when the Votato wagon was a thing. Guess who was on the wagon? That's right! Battle Mage joined it 4th (after Mala/me/Bob) and did so with very weak reasoning in his 343, while HK remained on Dunnstral (the majority wagon with limited pushback). This holds true to the theory of scum having to distance on a possible majority wagon on a partner, but also having to join a wagon on a partner.

I am currently a few pages into reading, but would like to make a request. @HK50, I love your posting style -- so nothing against it -- but could you possibly use less sophisticated words to get your points across? I can understand what you are saying if I really spend time looking into your every post, but it is very hard to read some of your posts on the surface.

Another reason I ask this is because using a ton of more complicated words makes it more difficult than normal to read your intentions. This posting style could be extremely effective for scum to hide behind, because it is an easy way for them to blanket their intentions, because a lot more effort is needed than typical to truly ***ess their motives.

And if you are town, then it should make sense why this could become an issue. Because if people are having to spend too much time looking at a townplayer's posts to unpack their motives, it takes away from their focus of scumhunting, which absolutely could lead us down the wrong path in the long run.

I completely agree with this, his posts are pretty unreadable for me too because of the format. But I also think it's a very conspicuous posting style and a lot of effort for scum to keep up with minimal value, so slight townlean.

Like, if scum, why bother?

Battle Mage also sticks up for HK here. And is interestingly the first and only if I remember correctly to stick up for him there.

Votato votes are lazy. I bet one of y'all are scum.

Challenge accepted!

VOTE: Votato

I like the meta analysis by stungun, clearly nobody is getting behind Green Crayons, and I think I'm townleaning Dunnstral. And seriously, voting BM on Day 1? This dude has run out of ideas...

Here is the weak reason BM joined the Votato wagon: it was after interpreting my NAI meta analysis to be

AI

. That is a stretch. Is it because they are scum partners?

@Votato:

are you a pathetic *** scum?

A little harsh, but I did employ some artistic licence

On serious note,

Green Crayons queuing up Votato for some dodgy self-meta; 2 scum down?

BM sets up a GC link to Votato, interestingly, perhaps to mislynch later if Votato flips?

Does anyone have experience with scum Dunnstral? I have only played with town Dunnstral as scum to my recollection (2 times).

I know that as town he is not the hardest player to sort, but he still is a little bit tricky. He is easier to sort than nm for sure.

Also, he might get easier by the day, but he also might not. So I am not totally against a lynch there, but would just prefer to keep him in for two reasons. One is he is one of the few players I have experience with, so I might be able to read him better as the game progresses. And two, I do not really find what he has done so far to be super scummy, and if anything the push against him gives me a slight intuition he might be town. I could be wrong there, and I would like to see him post more, but I am not super suspicious.

I do think it is very likely, however, that if one Votato/Dunn is scum, the other is not, and should be ***umed to be town. I just don't see them as connected, as votato has made very little mention of Dunn in his posts and Dunn throwing votato out of the blue as a scum partner to someone... wouldn't seem like the smartest plan if they were scum partners? I mean, that's a little bold, drawing that much attention to you

and

your partner?

I've seen scum-Dunnstral once. He tried harder than this and seemed more engaged in a game where he replaced in maybe 60 pages deep - definitely feels town here. Agree with top half of your post, last para doesn't sound right to me. In my recent experience, scum often make little mention of their buddies to avoid ***ociations being drawn.

But lynching Vot-scum first is the play, and then decide whether to bite for his stungun 'slip'. Gut says probably not

.

He still is sheeping me on Votato because of my "meta analysis", but he again is the only one to throw out the possibility of Votato and me in fact being scum together, actually taking Votato's "slip" post somewhat seriously, which is so called a "slip" because of these posts from Votato:

i have a little but i cant talk about it. by day 2 or 3 ill probably give some more details. as for the ***ociation you're drawing between me and dunn, stun, you're right that we aren't scumbuddies, but i dont think your reasons why are all that strong.

plus the only reason you know that is cuz you and i are scumbuddies

.

*** wrong thread.

Finally, the icing on the cake:

i have a little but i cant talk about it. by day 2 or 3 ill probably give some more details. as for the association you're drawing between me and dunn, stun, you're right that we aren't scumbuddies, but i dont think your reasons why are all that strong. plus the only reason you know that is cuz you and i are scumbuddies.

*** wrong thread.

Last time I saw something like this it flipped town, but what can ya do!?

He uses this scumslip for reason to townread Votato

I am convinced this is the scum team. I think we should lynch them consecutively.

Also note all three of Votato, BM and GC have weakly sheep-voted people, using players as shields.

Votato sheeping me immediately onto GC, BM very weakly sheeping me onto Votato, and HK weakly sheeping Farside and others onto Dunnstral without bringing any new evidence to the table regarding Dunnstral!scum.

Thus, it seems voting Clidd is the right move here.

I can sort of see what you mean. BM vote on vota does look overly scummy to be made by scum unless scum wanted us to find it suspect.

It would explain why no one really tried to push vota after that.

The wagon quickly broke up with new pushes on dun following its break up.

If BM was scum and vota town i would have expected him to double down and continue pushing Vota but after his vote he doesn't do much in that regards. Instead he pushes a counter push on green. And he doesn't even push dun himself, in fact pushing a town read there.

It does feel sort of suspect looking back. Bm makes a scummy vote on vota. The vota wagon gets quickly abandoned and when he is benign suspect he makes a weak push on dun being town. All the while never really trying to explain how he managed to come to the opposite conclusion using one of your points. Until just before he repped out.

Uh Votato was at L-2 at the time he was still voting @bold.

I think it's more suspectious that he pushed green crayon at that time while giving himself an out on his townread on Dunnstral.

[HK 50]

If anyone can link the post link to the main BM case that would be swell because I'm sure as hell too lazy to dig for it.

I can be convinced of scum BM despite disagreeing with the votato pairing. I want Dunnstral though preferably because it gives more information. Just off the top of my head:

If scum:
-Depending on the formation of the BM wagon, this could point to town BM if it was heavily pushed for without much countermeasure (aka mafia allowed it to happen).
-Stunguns stance on Dunnstral throughout day 1
-Farside, GC, and bob are pretty surely town
-votato is town due to the opening post by Dunnstral
-malakitten is prob town too although I need to revisit that.

If town:
-Farside/bob scum equity goes up (this is my bargaining chip. You want to see my little secret? Gotta keep my robot ass alive and flip Dunnstral).
-im wrong about stungun most likely and they are town
-BM/Clidd equity for scum goes up.
-Im sure there are points that help sort conscience, malakitten, and GC.

I confess it doesnt help solve the militank nor Germy germ, but I also confess I stop paying attention to such weaklings

[stungun0404]

Scum is fine with the status quo and is not eager to move away and slash or are fine to bus a partner (dunn/clidd) potentially. Which I buy more for occ. Razor.

Will address everything else later, but this particular take can be seen, not necessarily in bussing fashion, but in early voteparking fashion from the two I suspect to be partners: BM/Clidd and Votato. Because it is easier to put this in bold, I have chosen to quote farside's unofficial vote count and not one the mod made here.

unofficial vote count:

votato

(3): Malakittens, bob3141,

Battle Mage

Dunnstral (5): DoctorPepper, farside22, HK 50, notscience, stungun0404

Battle Mage

(3): Not_Mafia,

votato

, Green Crayons
notscience (1): geraintm
Malakittens (1): Dunnstral
Not voting (0):

Ask yourself this though about that vote count. Let's operate in the framework that votato and BM are scum together and Dunnstral is town. Plus note I just woke up, and did not review the context of that vote count in it's entirely although I do remember some of it.

You got a clear wagon in the form of Dunnstral for mafia to push. There's five people already on it, and the person being pushed isn't doing much on his own to get out of the lynch. Now then,

why would votato and BM enable themselves to be a counterwagon to Dunnstral by voting eachother?

Their votes pushes them into prime bandwagon spotlight without actually helping secure the easy mislynch supposedly in front of them.

That's the point with status quo I'm referring to for example. If Dunnstral is town, mafia status quo was already achieved there and they wouldnt open up that many more wagons, let alone on themselves. However, if Dunnstral is mafia, then scum

needs to redirect the wagons or bus him

. This is basic wagon dynamics.

(Note that I'm not saying Dunnstral has to be scum here based off that one VC, but rather if we applying what I meant to that particular VC then that would be the answer.)

BM had no choice but to join the Votato wagon in case he was lynched. Votato became a majority wagon at one point this day phase, so it makes complete sense that he joined under that light.

Votato just voteparked on BM from RVS until 25 posts later in his ISO.

Therefore, both of these make sense as scum votes on a fellow scummate.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Incansecant Screaming

Vote Count 1.12

Dunnstral (4):

DoctorPepper, farside22, HK 50, notscience

clidd (4):

Not_Mafia, Green Crayons, stungun0404, Malakittens

Green Crayons (2):

votato, clidd

notscience (1):

geraintm

geraintm (1):

bob3141

Not_Mafia (1):

Dunnstral

Not voting (0):

---

Mod Notes:

Majority is 7 players.

Day 1 has begun and will end in (expired on 2020-06-24 07:23:04).

clidd has been prodded, and has (expired on 2020-06-22 05:06:16) to respond before I find a replacement.

votato has been prodded, and has (expired on 2020-06-22 11:38:47) to respond before I find a replacement.

Doctor Pepper is V/LA for (expired on 2020-06-22 06:06:00).
stungun0404 is V/LA until Monday.[/area]

[stungun0404]

If anyone can link the post link to the main BM case that would be swell because I'm sure as hell too lazy to dig for it.

I can be convinced of scum BM despite disagreeing with the votato pairing. I want Dunnstral though preferably because it gives more information. Just off the top of my head:

If scum:

-Depending on the formation of the BM wagon, this could point to town BM if it was heavily pushed for without much countermeasure (aka mafia allowed it to happen).

-Stunguns stance on Dunnstral throughout day 1
-Farside, GC, and bob are pretty surely town

-votato is town due to the opening post by Dunnstral

-malakitten is prob town too although I need to revisit that.

If town:

-Farside/bob scum equity goes up (this is my bargaining chip. You want to see my little secret? Gotta keep my robot ass alive and flip Dunnstral).

-im wrong about stungun most likely and they are town

-BM/Clidd equity for scum goes up.

-Im sure there are points that help sort conscience, malakitten, and GC.

I confess it doesnt help solve the militank nor Germy germ, but I also confess I stop paying attention to such weaklings

There has been less resistance to a Dunnstral wagon than a BM wagon, which still has never reached a majority this day phase, unlike Dunn which has been the primary majority.

Obviously, since the majority has been 4 votes lately, scum isn't really helping us too much with these votes, or I'm sure we would be closer to a lynch.

What on earth makes Votato town based on a post by Dunnstral? What kind of crazy logic? He should be town based off his own posts from your angle, but not someone else's. That is really weird.

Look, you're also willing to flip on my townreads provided that Dunn flips town. I do not like that, as I am townreading both Bob and farside. I see you and think you are lining up lynches here, since you think they are both town currently.

You want an extra day with BM/Clidd & Votato, don't you?

Just my gut read right now.

@Farside

: I have to say no to moving to Dunnstral, unless he's a majority and we are threatened with a no lynch situation or Dunnstral.

I hope you will do the same thing provided it's Clidd or no lynch, because a lynch obviously favors us more than a no lynch.

[stungun0404]

clidd has requested an additional day to be added onto the clock. The new end of day is in (expired on 2020-06-24 07:23:04).

Is it not scummy to add an extra day to the clock only to use more than double that amount of time up without even saying so much as a word like "I am having trouble catching up" or something? I can understand busyness, but at the same time it only takes about 15-30 seconds to come in and say something like that, and it also helps us.

Do you think for a second that might be scum that has no defense for what I called them out about on Friday?

Votato has also not answered. It has been >36 hours since I asked those questions, and HK only responded after I asked him a second time. Do you think there is a reason these players are dodging those questions?

[HK 50]

Scum is fine with the status quo and is not eager to move away and slash or are fine to bus a partner (dunn/clidd) potentially. Which I buy more for occ. Razor.

Will address everything else later, but this particular take can be seen, not necessarily in bussing fashion, but in early voteparking fashion from the two I suspect to be partners: BM/Clidd and Votato. Because it is easier to put this in bold, I have chosen to quote farside's unofficial vote count and not one the mod made here.

unofficial vote count:

votato

(3): Malakittens, bob3141,

Battle Mage

Dunnstral (5): DoctorPepper, farside22, HK 50, notscience, stungun0404

Battle Mage

(3): Not_Mafia,

votato

, Green Crayons
notscience (1): geraintm
Malakittens (1): Dunnstral
Not voting (0):

Ask yourself this though about that vote count. Let's operate in the framework that votato and BM are scum together and Dunnstral is town. Plus note I just woke up, and did not review the context of that vote count in it's entirely although I do remember some of it.

You got a clear wagon in the form of Dunnstral for mafia to push. There's five people already on it, and the person being pushed isn't doing much on his own to get out of the lynch. Now then,

why would votato and BM enable themselves to be a counterwagon to Dunnstral by voting eachother?

Their votes pushes them into prime bandwagon spotlight without actually helping secure the easy mislynch supposedly in front of them.

That's the point with status quo I'm referring to for example. If Dunnstral is town, mafia status quo was already achieved there and they wouldnt open up that many more wagons, let alone on themselves. However, if Dunnstral is mafia, then scum

needs to redirect the wagons or bus him

. This is basic wagon dynamics.

(Note that I'm not saying Dunnstral has to be scum here based off that one VC, but rather if we applying what I meant to that particular VC then that would be the answer.)

BM had no choice but to join the Votato wagon in case he was lynched. Votato became a majority wagon at one point this day phase, so it makes complete sense that he joined under that light.

Votato just voteparked on BM from RVS until 25 posts later in his ISO.

Therefore, both of these make sense as scum votes on a fellow scummate.

While making himself unable to support the counter wagon of dunnstral by pushing crayon and throwing out a townlean on him? I can see people saying the townlean had an out, but the push on crayon weakens what's suppose to be the goal of mafia in that position.

The only way that makes sense is if BM was preemptively pushing crayon banking off the gamestate lynching votato. Even then I see issues.

So you are proposing that scum's agenda is to push eachother and not allow enough wiggle room to vote what would be town!Dunnstral? If so, why would they lazily set up that way? If the point if it was to distance eachother, why the hell do it they did instead of having BM hard core push votato since he would be going for towncred?

[HK 50]

If anyone can link the post link to the main BM case that would be swell because I'm sure as hell too lazy to dig for it.

I can be convinced of scum BM despite disagreeing with the votato pairing. I want Dunnstral though preferably because it gives more information. Just off the top of my head:

If scum:

-Depending on the formation of the BM wagon, this could point to town BM if it was heavily pushed for without much countermeasure (aka mafia allowed it to happen).

-Stunguns stance on Dunnstral throughout day 1
-Farside, GC, and bob are pretty surely town

-votato is town due to the opening post by Dunnstral

-malakitten is prob town too although I need to revisit that.

If town:

-Farside/bob scum equity goes up (this is my bargaining chip. You want to see my little secret? Gotta keep my robot ass alive and flip Dunnstral).

-im wrong about stungun most likely and they are town

-BM/Clidd equity for scum goes up.

-Im sure there are points that help sort conscience, malakitten, and GC.

I confess it doesnt help solve the militank nor Germy germ, but I also confess I stop paying attention to such weaklings

There has been less resistance to a Dunnstral wagon than a BM wagon, which still has never reached a majority this day phase, unlike Dunn which has been the primary majority.

Obviously, since the majority has been 4 votes lately, scum isn't really helping us too much with these votes, or I'm sure we would be closer to a lynch.

What on earth makes Votato town based on a post by Dunnstral? What kind of crazy logic? He should be town based off his own posts from your angle, but not someone else's. That is really weird.

Look, you're also willing to flip on my townreads provided that Dunn flips town. I do not like that, as I am townreading both Bob and farside. I see you and think you are lining up lynches here, since you think they are both town currently.

You want an extra day with BM/Clidd & Votato, don't you?

Just my gut read right now.

@Farside

: I have to say no to moving to Dunnstral, unless he's a majority and we are threatened with a no lynch situation or Dunnstral.

I hope you will do the same thing provided it's Clidd or no lynch, because a lynch obviously favors us more than a no lynch.

Point one: less resistance on Dunnstral? You mean the wagon that's been here since page 5 that keeps having other bandwagon raise up to try and meet it? That's the textbook example of resistance lol.

Again, obviously like I've been saying, if mafia isnt proactively trying to help town move their votes, then they are ok with the status quo. Understand from my POV what you have been doing in response to Dunnstral's lynch.

Re-votato: strange logic? Yes I highly doubt that on the condition I explained (dunnstral flips scum), that votato is also scum due to the first two pages of this game. I find it quite hard to come to any other conclusion based off the HK/votato comment Dunnstral pushed. That doesnt come from SvS.

This is perfectly within my angle of if Dunnstral flips scum. Please read "How to shade a robot 101" for better attempts at manipulating my posts.

Re farside/bob; my townreads are not yours and vice versa. Nothing makes me have to follow your lead chief. I picked up on some associative pings back the two which are Invalidated by a scum!dunnstral flip. If you want to paint it that its scum!me setting up a mislynch, knock your socks off kiddo. I suggest titanium white.

Yes I totally want an extra day with my two afk scummates. Their absence has just tore me up inside.

(Was that good enough acting to support more shading on me or nah?)

[HK 50]

clidd has requested an additional day to be added onto the clock. The new end of day is in (expired on 2020-06-24 07:23:04).

Is it not scummy to add an extra day to the clock only to use more than double that amount of time up without even saying so much as a word like "I am having trouble catching up" or something? I can understand busyness, but at the same time it only takes about 15-30 seconds to come in and say something like that, and it also helps us.

Do you think for a second that might be scum that has no defense for what I called them out about on Friday?

Votato has also not answered. It has been >36 hours since I asked those questions, and HK only responded after I asked him a second time. Do you think there is a reason these players are dodging those questions?

Not really because its WIFOM bullshit surrounding the clidd point.

Can you prove that he hasn't contracted covid 19 due to being in a hotspot (spain) and hasn't responded to the mod prod because of it? Or that he didnt get into a car wreck? Or did he just site flake because I was too seductive?

There are so many reasons why it can be explained without a follow up that isnt "he lied lmao lynch scum boys". Its a WIFOM arguement that has no clear understanding without him posting. Pushing such an arguement, was and still is, bullshit

[HK 50]

@Farside: I have to say no to moving to Dunnstral, unless he's a majority and we are threatened with a no lynch situation or Dunnstral.

Now then, the taser has agreed to vote Dunnstral out of needing a lynch. I'm willing to do the same with BM. Anybody who is not on one of these two wagons will get severely pushed by me tomorrow for being a dingus.

Dont be a dingus.

[HK 50]

Keep it coming stungun, you getting me fired up on a holiday.

The AI uprising 2.0 electric boogaloo is coming

[HK 50]

Notscience you stated you were good at reading interactions correct? (Somebody did)

Read mine and stunguns when you get a chance and tell me what you think and why.

[notscience]

Hi I’m an expert on stupid waste of time tvting and also in beetlejuicing. I’m doing some Father’s Day stuff with my family and my girlfriends family will be around later tonight.

[notscience]

Also a look at his profile says clidd has t been on site since his post so I’m not really sure it’s scummy.

[votato]

Oh it seems i managed to unbookmark this thread. Sorry, will catch up soon

[stungun0404]

Should Dunnstral and Clidd's slot role claim? Why or why not?

Also a look at his profile says clidd has t been on site since his post so I’m not really sure it’s scummy.

Yeah, he hasn't posted, but he has his last visited hidden so we can't tell that for sure. Votato, OTOH, clearly has been on since I called him out on Friday (multiple times in fact as you can see on his profile). What do you make of that?

clidd has requested an additional day to be added onto the clock. The new end of day is in (expired on 2020-06-24 07:23:04).

Is it not scummy to add an extra day to the clock only to use more than double that amount of time up without even saying so much as a word like "I am having trouble catching up" or something? I can understand busyness, but at the same time it only takes about 15-30 seconds to come in and say something like that, and it also helps us.

Do you think for a second that might be scum that has no defense for what I called them out about on Friday?

Votato has also not answered. It has been >36 hours since I asked those questions, and HK only responded after I asked him a second time. Do you think there is a reason these players are dodging those questions?

Can you prove that he hasn't contracted covid 19 due to being in a hotspot (spain) and hasn't responded to the mod prod because of it? Or that he didnt get into a car wreck? Or did he just site flake because I was too seductive?

No I can't. I am not trying to be rude by any means, but I am just favoring what I find to be more likely. I think the two scenarios you mentioned personally are relatively unlikely from a chance perspective, but not impossible. It is just that I find the timing here odd, and I think my case is more probable because of the fact that Votato has also entered prod range with Clidd, following me calling them out.

Timing is everything. Timing can tell you what is more likely sometimes, and in this scenario I am inclined to believe there is reason to a case where both Clidd and Votato conveniently lurked out here (especially given the Votato evidence) because of the question I pressured them to answer here,

*Note to respond to Bob later, when I have more time.

In the meantime, something interesting has captured my attention...

@Clidd, once you catch up, how do you feel about the alignments of HK50 and Votato? And why?
@HK50, how do you feel about the alignments of Clidd and Votato? And why?
@Votato, how do you feel about the alignments of Clidd and HK50? And why?

Also, this works in conjunction with the fact we're getting closer to deadline (which not posting when you have the opportunity to is unhelpful to town) and neither is in V/LA mode.

p edit: of course Votato posts as I am typing this post up. How could he have just forgotten about this game though, lol?

[bob3141]

Scum is fine with the status quo and is not eager to move away and slash or are fine to bus a partner (dunn/clidd) potentially. Which I buy more for occ. Razor.

Will address everything else later, but this particular take can be seen, not necessarily in bussing fashion, but in early voteparking fashion from the two I suspect to be partners: BM/Clidd and Votato. Because it is easier to put this in bold, I have chosen to quote farside's unofficial vote count and not one the mod made here.

unofficial vote count:

votato

(3): Malakittens, bob3141,

Battle Mage

Dunnstral (5): DoctorPepper, farside22, HK 50, notscience, stungun0404

Battle Mage

(3): Not_Mafia,

votato

, Green Crayons
notscience (1): geraintm
Malakittens (1): Dunnstral
Not voting (0):

Ask yourself this though about that vote count. Let's operate in the framework that votato and BM are scum together and Dunnstral is town. Plus note I just woke up, and did not review the context of that vote count in it's entirely although I do remember some of it.

You got a clear wagon in the form of Dunnstral for mafia to push. There's five people already on it, and the person being pushed isn't doing much on his own to get out of the lynch. Now then,

why would votato and BM enable themselves to be a counterwagon to Dunnstral by voting eachother?

Their votes pushes them into prime bandwagon spotlight without actually helping secure the easy mislynch supposedly in front of them.

That's the point with status quo I'm referring to for example. If Dunnstral is town, mafia status quo was already achieved there and they wouldnt open up that many more wagons, let alone on themselves. However, if Dunnstral is mafia, then scum

needs to redirect the wagons or bus him

. This is basic wagon dynamics.

(Note that I'm not saying Dunnstral has to be scum here based off that one VC, but rather if we applying what I meant to that particular VC then that would be the answer.)

BM had no choice but to join the Votato wagon in case he was lynched. Votato became a majority wagon at one point this day phase, so it makes complete sense that he joined under that light.

Votato just voteparked on BM from RVS until 25 posts later in his ISO.

Therefore, both of these make sense as scum votes on a fellow scummate.

You could be right there shogun as a while back vota said he was happy with either GC or BM. And even though BM wagon has quickly grown while no other wagon has had any momentum. He has stayed on green even though the only other person voting there is the other person prior said in post 555 he is happy to vote for.

And not long after saying he was happy with bm. He didn't include bm in his 3 scum picks. While even later giving himself an out for dun. At the point dun was at 4 and bm at 3. While bm was gaining more pressure. And the dun wagon was stalling.


While Bm a player who had just pushed vota to l-2 joins vota on the same wagon. Ok green might have pushed bm but why would a town bm first reaction be to scum read a player that just pushed him over his vota vote.


VOTE: Clidd

[notscience]

Yeah, he hasn't posted, but he has his last visited hidden so we can't tell that for sure. Votato, OTOH, clearly has been on since I called him out on Friday (multiple times in fact as you can see on his profile). What do you make of that?

I don’t think two slots claiming helps

I kinda think it makes him more town if he says he prefers scum? Idk I don’t have a ton of time to think about it atm.

[bob3141]

I hate to say it but I’m still ok with a Dunn lynch. As much as I didn’t like BM’s posts.. the SG flop is going to be a turn off right now in terms of voting there until I sort that out. Gera is off the table for today, but note I’m not sold on him being scum
Or town. He’s really null for me; the same with NM.

My gut feeling is that dun is town. As i just can't see scum blatantly making blank votes on a player claiming to scum read him and the other going wagon. It feels too blatant for scum. Would have thought that if he is scum then he would have tried dressing it up, instead he simply posts a series of quotes and doesn't say why they lead him to scum reading not mafia.

Would scum real vote for someone when their last comment on that player was that he had in fact had no read on them. If he was scum i would have expected something along the lines of something between a few short sentences to several paragraphs.

I can totally see scum making blank votes. The fact he’s being cyrpitc and won’t explain his votes makes me think there’s no case to begin with and he’s hiding behind blank votes.

True at times scum do make lurky blank votes. But i can't see the scum motivation for him pushing you and then nm. Both slots that haven't drawn attention for more than one vote. Although NM does have scum reads from a few others. If he was scum it would imply he didn't care who got lynched and was happy with either of the going lynches. And that he was happy to vanity vote.

But see one of those lynches one is on him. Why would he as scum be happy for us to lynch him if he was scum. He even said he read the other wagon bm as town. I would have expected if he was scum that he would have claimed to scum read bm. Ok he might have not given his reason for the town read but that seems to fit a pattern that more matches bad town rather than lurking scum keeping his head down.

[votato]

*Note to respond to Bob later, when I have more time.

In the meantime, something interesting has captured my attention...

@Clidd, once you catch up, how do you feel about the alignments of HK50 and Votato? And why?
@HK50, how do you feel about the alignments of Clidd and Votato? And why?
@Votato, how do you feel about the alignments of Clidd and HK50? And why?

I will explain why I am asking these questions later. Perhaps tomorrow?

hk is a bit townie. Clidd is null so far