Mini Normal 2149 | Philosophers | Over

[Deimos27]

Official Vote Count 1.06

One of John Locke's (1632-1704) main contributions to political philosophy was his theory of natural rights, listed as life, liberty, and property.
Thomas Jefferson adapted this as "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" for the 1776 US Declaration of Independence.

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Lynching

With 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

popopopopopopo

(4): GuiltyLion, Truth, LicketyQuickety, Glitch

GuiltyLion

(3): NorwegianboyEE, Looker, mavsfan41

Nauci

(1): Cat Scratch Fever

LicketyQuickety

(1): osuka

osuka

(1): Nauci

Cat Scratch Fever

(1): popopopopopopo

No Lynch

(1): Candy Shop

Not Voting

(1): NDMath

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-07-01 18:16:10).

Mod notes:

• NDMath has replaced Rozyroz.

[/area]

[NorwegianboyEE]

Glitch, i really wish you’d focus your attention elsewhere. Because Truth lynch isn’t happening today.

[NorwegianboyEE]

This post shouldn't come from town and overall norwee is much townier in the norwee-lion interaction.

Can you express your position with a bit more words?

[Truth]

Truth, what's your homesite?

It's linked to my university so I can't say, sorry.

[NorwegianboyEE]

On the one hand, i’d like to entertain the thought of me/GL being TvT. But i also don’t see that many other major leads than him today. So i’d still really like to lynch there.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Truth, what's your homesite?

It's linked to my university so I can't say, sorry.

Your new avatar is LAMIST.

[Truth]

It's so cute!

[mavsfan41]

Disclaimer: I’m really bad at reading a bus’ing vote, but I wouldn’t consider that a bus’ing scenario for Nauci right there. I think the fact she place her vote on one side, then reconsidered it and pushed the side she had voted with is town intentions.

Hey buddy want to form a town block?

Umm, this early? Nah.

UNVOTE: GuiltyLion

I like your most recent posts in the second installment of GuiltyLion vs Norwegian.

@Glitch: I agree with Norwegian and Nauci’s 717. I think effort focused on Truth would be better used elsewhere.

Can someone give me the case against Popopo? I read Glitch’s 710 which is details a case for Popopo all in one place, so thanks for that. But reading why people have voted Popopo, i get the idea that it’s just a D1 policy lynch (I’m okay with a D1 PL) for sheep’ing Norwegian?

@Truth: I can almost guarantee that the doctor will NOT be protecting you tonight. But I wouldn’t worry about it cause scum likely ain’t gonna kill a claimed mason/miller.

@Norwegian: you seem pretty dug in on the GuiltyLion slot. How are you feeling about him after your second clash? Feeling stronger or weaker about his chances of flipping scum?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Hey buddy want to form a town block?

Umm, this early? Nah.

This was a very town reply.
Don't know how i feel about Nauci pushing for a townblock already.

[NorwegianboyEE]

GL you can join our town block if you'd like

And this makes me like 10x more paranoid about a GL/Nauci team.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Feeling stronger or weaker about his chances of flipping scum?

I took a step back to observe the game from a Town!GL perspective. But then it felt like nothing made sense anymore so now i scumread him again.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m pretty good at reading the atmosphere when i deeply immerse myself in a game. And right now i’m feeling a: "GuiltyLion has scum teammates and they are reluctant to buss him." Kind of atmosphere.

[osuka]

I’m pretty good at reading the atmosphere when i deeply immerse myself in a game. And right now i’m feeling a: "GuiltyLion has scum teammates and they are reluctant to buss him." Kind of atmosphere.

who would you say his scum buddies are other than nauci

[NorwegianboyEE]

Spoiler:

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m pretty good at reading the atmosphere when i deeply immerse myself in a game. And right now i’m feeling a: "GuiltyLion has scum teammates and they are reluctant to buss him." Kind of atmosphere.

who would you say his scum buddies are other than nauci

Idk yet. Got some ideas for who it's less likely to be but nothing certain about third.

[GuiltyLion]

Scratch is scummy independently though, his early play was intentionally inoffensive and his hop on my wagon was very bad.

I literally just played a game with scratch scum which ended right after this game started - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go - and they felt way more scummy and bland/intentionally inoffensive there than they do here.

I actually give them a fair amount of towncred for the way they scumread me early because I was posting/efforting so much in the other Blitz game as it was ending and hadn't started doing my thing yet here. That made sense from a town mindset

[GuiltyLion]

Does GuiltyLion scumread NorwegianboyEE or not?
If you suspect someone of being scum, would you trust their self-meta?
I don't know if "I'm going to try to drop the suspicion for now and try to solve for scums outside of you" is meant to mean "I think you're scum and I'm going to find your partners" or "I don't know what you are, but I'm going to ignore you for the rest of the day".
I also don't know how one person (Player A) scumreading another (Player B) could give them (Player A) a blindspot.

I think I actually don't scumread him right now at this point

but if he survives a long time in this game and we don't see flips that point to him town, I definitely wouldn't let him live through LYLO

the 'drop suspicion' thing was about ignoring him (mostly) and trying to find scum elsewhere

also, the blindspot thing should be pretty obvious? He's said he won't vote elsewhere unless there's a "damn good case" of why they're scum and why I'm not scum with them, he scumreads Nauci because he thinks she looks like she was awkwardly bussing me, he just recently said the game "doesn't make sense" from a town!GL perspective. I'm town, so all of his framework for analyzing anything in light of me being scum is inevitably going to be misreading things. He has a 0% chance of voting scum if he stays on me all day today.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I actually give them a fair amount of towncred for the way they scumread me early because I was posting/efforting so much in the other Blitz game as it was ending and hadn't started doing my thing yet here. That made sense from a town mindset

But i did the exact same, yet you found him to be town but me scummy, hmmm...?

[GuiltyLion]

Does anyone have thoughts on my push against Truth? Why are we dismissing it saying that it will work itself out when his play is so bad? I feel like maybe Truth as scum has come out publicly and the other scum in the thread are trying to push attention away from him and steer suspicion in other directions.

I think someone also explained this elsewhere but it's very easy to see why Truth doesn't matter today. He's claimed mason, when we get to later in the game, probably day before LYLO, either mason buddies will confirm him (or will have flipped already), or we'll know the claim is bullshit and we can lynch him then.

[GuiltyLion]

I actually give them a fair amount of towncred for the way they scumread me early because I was posting/efforting so much in the other Blitz game as it was ending and hadn't started doing my thing yet here. That made sense from a town mindset

But i did the exact same, yet you found him to be town but me scummy, hmmm...?

You pushed against Quick doing it, then you said it yourself just four hours later, then you made a whole big deal out of a non-indicative RVS vote and only really put the pedal to the metal when I had already called you out, as a defensive tactic. Further, CSF has since recognized that this is actually my town game, and you are utterly incapable of doing so. Lots of differences!

[GuiltyLion]

-You could want to stick with me and see if a popopopopopopopopop mislynch could go through without you, in which case a) GL looks bad and b) you can then play the 'I told you so, GL is scum!!' card on D2

Nah, i would just nightkill you buddy.

this post is weird, not to mention the fact that nking guilty in that scenario might be a bad idea to begin with

im not sure how i feel about glitch. looker has barely posted so i dont have a read there either

glitch in particular has posts that don't really ping me either way, but i should iso that slot and delve in a little deeper sometime soon

nauci might be scum and couldve been trying to pocket me or something, but now that ive voiced that thought she should give up on that front. doesn't mean she's not scum though

not quite sure how i feel about lion and popopopopoopopoopopppop. it's definitely not svs, maybe tvt (unlikely?) but probably tvs. not sure who the scum there is, though. lion has some slightly scummy vibes if we're talking strictly meta, but i'm not too sure there either

both these posts are really waffley and don't take any stances on anything. There's also more problems with later posts which I'll get to in a second

[GuiltyLion]

he doesnt usually play this defensively when hes town from what i can tell. he seems to be very obviously uncomfortable, which is a tell of scum gl

this struck me as especially fake

first, I've only played one game with osuka before several years ago, so he's not speaking from personal experience here

second, I am well known for overreacting to votes/scumreads on me as town. I don't know where the "obviously uncomfortable" thing comes from at all - my problems with being scum have to do with keeping up and generating a

quantity

of content, it's not a

quality

of content problem. I've played 60-70+ games on site, have been around for years, I'm not someone who's "obviously uncomfortable" when I'm scum. Just less engaged than I am as town.

I think you're just making shit up, osuka. Unless you wanna link me to games you reviewed to come to this conclusion.

VOTE: osuka

[GuiltyLion]

If NDmath doesn’t post anything good soon i wouldn’t mind voting there tbh.

Agreed.

+1 on this too

[GuiltyLion]

I don't buy you thought that it was very scummy unless you can be more specific as to why.

alright, if you ask for it I will indulge!

first things first, I didn't like opening with the "let's see if I can remember why I quoted these posts!", feels really performative and buddying up to the thread. feels like you're mindful of how people are going to perceive your entry

next, a number of your questions are useless, they don't need to be answered and I don't see how they will generate useful content. Often because there's more content later that makes the answers to the questions irrelevant, or because they're just kinda empty things to discuss. It seems pretty clear that Quick thought at least the 'hood' aspect of Truth's claim was legitimate. CSF has posted a bunch of content to work with, who cares about "avoiding" RVS? Do you really think that's the most indicative thing you could comment on in the first 150 posts, or even the most indicative thing about CSF's play in the game?

You also make a number of really hedgey or pointless comments. "Usually pushing for NL comes from scum" (hard disagree btw), "but here it's probably closer to null". Okay? Do you scumread Candy Shop or not? "I find this a likely town mindset though not necessarily townie". What? What's the point of that comment at all?

Next, you just voted/unvoted and peaced out. I think town should be at least putting a vote down in that situation to advance the game, even if they're not fully caught up yet. you STILL haven't voted. What are you doing to actually help catch/kill scum? How does town benefit at all from your presence in the game if you're not participating in any wagons?

Finally, adding your next post into the mix, it's not really clear to me

at all

why you have any of the reads that you do. Your reads list has most of the players in the game in ambiguous nully tiers with no explanation given as to how they got to be there or where you'd feel comfortable voting. Why am I lower than Candyshop, who is lower than everyone else in the game? Do you think I'm more likely scum? If both myself and Candyshop were at L-1 and you were holding the hammer, you'd vote me over Candy Shop - why? Why are Glitch/Nauci below the four players above them? Would you vote to lynch either of those slots today?

None of it is content that is useful to me to help understand your thought process or suggests that you're taking initiative to solve the game for your benefit or anyone else's. It all feels very timid and blendy, like you're just posting a formulaic template of what you think town posts are supposed to look like.

[GuiltyLion]

On the one hand, i’d like to entertain the thought of me/GL being TvT. But i also don’t see that many other major leads than him today. So i’d still really like to lynch there.

This makes it sound like you don't think any of the other 11 players in the game look scummy independent of myself, and we both know that's not true.

Feeling stronger or weaker about his chances of flipping scum?

I took a step back to observe the game from a Town!GL perspective. But then it felt like nothing made sense anymore so now i scumread him again.

Nothing made sense anymore? I'd argue not a lot has happened yet. Quick/Osuka argued a bunch, we argued a bunch, I got a handful of votes, then I suggested popopopopopopopop for not doing a lot and making a bad vote on me and he picked up some votes. We haven't seen any flips, TONS of people could be scum in this game, if we're both town then I don't think scum has felt a ton of pressure yet. It's bizarre to me that you think the only possible explanation for this game state is that I'm scum.