Mini Normal 2149 | Philosophers | Over

[LicketyQuickety]

IDK why Scum would do that other than to look Town.

I think you're comically missing the point of what scum's job is.

Which is NOT to look Town.

Not sure i agree... but ok, not a hill i'd want to die on.

Scum's job is to lynch Town. Town's job is to lynch Scum. That's the only reason why Town looks Town and Scum looks Scum. Otherwise SOMETIMES Scum wants to look Town, but not at the expense of lynching Town. Does that make sense?

i don't think this does. if scum looks like town and town wants to lynch (what looks like) scum, then the obvious conclusion is that town will not lynch scum, which in turn means that town gets lynched (by exclusion, assuming a lynch)

Sorry, your fundamental way you play mafia is WRONG.

[osuka]

IDK why Scum would do that other than to look Town.

I think you're comically missing the point of what scum's job is.

Which is NOT to look Town.

Not sure i agree... but ok, not a hill i'd want to die on.

Scum's job is to lynch Town. Town's job is to lynch Scum. That's the only reason why Town looks Town and Scum looks Scum. Otherwise SOMETIMES Scum wants to look Town, but not at the expense of lynching Town. Does that make sense?

i don't think this does. if scum looks like town and town wants to lynch (what looks like) scum, then the obvious conclusion is that town will not lynch scum, which in turn means that town gets lynched (by exclusion, assuming a lynch)

Sorry, your fundamental way you play mafia is WRONG.

the whole point of playing scum as if you were town is that if people can't tell you apart from an actual townie, then assuming a random lynch, you win the game most of the time because a random lynch statistically benefits scum

but sorry please do go on about how scum is supposed to look like scum

[LicketyQuickety]

Well yeah. If all scum look like town because they are good at writing walls of text and faking genuine looking reactions then town will most likely lynch some town lurker or listen to advice from the scum about a player to lynch. (In which case, obviously they’d suggest lynching a town)

Scum don't have to be the Towniest people in the game to win. They just have to be less Scummy than someone else. That's why Scum push easy things. Because pushing easy things gets those players lynched. Like, if you actually observe the good Scum players you will see they care way more about lynching Town than looking Townie. I'm not just pulling this out of my ass either. This stuff is pretty established on many Mafia sites.

[LicketyQuickety]

IDK why Scum would do that other than to look Town.

I think you're comically missing the point of what scum's job is.

Which is NOT to look Town.

Not sure i agree... but ok, not a hill i'd want to die on.

Scum's job is to lynch Town. Town's job is to lynch Scum. That's the only reason why Town looks Town and Scum looks Scum. Otherwise SOMETIMES Scum wants to look Town, but not at the expense of lynching Town. Does that make sense?

i don't think this does. if scum looks like town and town wants to lynch (what looks like) scum, then the obvious conclusion is that town will not lynch scum, which in turn means that town gets lynched (by exclusion, assuming a lynch)

Sorry, your fundamental way you play mafia is WRONG.

the whole point of playing scum as if you were town is that if people can't tell you apart from an actual townie, then assuming a random lynch, you win the game most of the time because a random lynch statistically benefits scum

but sorry please do go on about how scum is supposed to look like scum

Then you are putting the cart before the horse. Scum don't NEED to look Townie to win if they can lynch Town instead. Seriously, this level of incompetence on how to play is pretty surprising.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’d like to see you put that "scum don’t need to look town" strategy into a nightless game and see how far you get.

[LicketyQuickety]

I’d like to see you put that "scum don’t need to look town" strategy into a nightless game and see how far you get.

Are we playing a Nightless game?

[NorwegianboyEE]

No, but that’s not the point. I’m saying that scum can get lucky and roll mafia in a game filled with scummy looking town. But if they roll scum in a game with like half the playerlist being very competent and town looking players then you are bound to lose even if it’s not a nightless and you can’t blend into that group.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Assuming they follow your strategy.

[LicketyQuickety]

No, but that’s not the point. I’m saying that scum can get lucky and roll mafia in a game filled with scummy looking town. But if they roll scum in a game with like half the playerlist being very competent and town looking players then you are bound to lose even if it’s not a nightless and you can’t blend into that group.

Keep playing like a newb then. Don't matter to me and I'm kinda done with this argument.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why did you insinuate i’m playing like a newb? Was there something faulty with my argument?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Let’s make it a bet. If Nauci is scum i win the argument. Because they are playing "like town" according to you. But i disagree there isn’t the possibility of scum playing like town to avoid getting lynched.

[LicketyQuickety]

Why did you insinuate i’m playing like a newb? Was there something faulty with my argument?

Because you don't get the thing that really matters to Scum which is NOT looking Townie but lynching Town. That's the first step in Scum winning and they can win doing just that. You CAN'T win as Scum if all you do is look Townie because this game requires LYNCHING. Ignoring that dynamic of this game, namely, lynching, shows you don't have your basics down well enough yet. That's maybe why you are so easy to catch as Scum by the by.

[LicketyQuickety]

Let’s make it a bet. If Nauci is scum i win the argument. Because they are playing "like town" according to you. But i disagree there isn’t the possibility of scum playing like town to avoid getting lynched.

I don't bet.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm not saying Scum never try and look Townie, I'm saying looking Townie as Scum is SECONDARY.

[LicketyQuickety]

BBL tonight. It's fathers day and I have to go see my old man.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Let’s make it a bet. If Nauci is scum i win the argument. Because they are playing "like town" according to you. But i disagree there isn’t the possibility of scum playing like town to avoid getting lynched.

I don't bet.

Tch... Doesn’t want to be proven wrong i see.

[GuiltyLion]

so I just tried to casually skim through NDMath town/scum to see if he always plays this poorly and it looks like this dude has never been scum yet on MS lmao

however, in his completed town games, he's definitely more goal-oriented in terms of votes/pressure and shows the ability to make insightful analysis, compared to what he's offered so far here.

So I think he's a great bet for scum and D1 lynch

osuka dialing back me, on first take I can kinda see it being town, but I don't like how he didn't really address where the meta point originally came from and I don't like the subtle redirect to Nauci who had started the wagon on him. I also just don't find Nauci's game all that scummy I think she's pretty likely town and a bad vote for today.

I agree with Quick that optimal mafia play is moreso about pushing mislynches than looking town, but I think the argument kinda quickly derailed from the original point about whether Nauci's play serves a scum agenda or not. The reason I think it's town-indicative that she defused the Osuka/Quick argument is because if she is scum then she's removing distractions or potential footholds to vote/engage at no benefit to herself. I don't agree that she gets any real "towncred" from that, as evidenced by the fact that many players are still throwing around the idea of voting her.

Glitch actually felt more townie to me in his most recent post than any of his past ones, he's not a bonafide townread yet and I don't think I'd cry if he got lynched but I'm more interested in osuka/NDMath slots first.

[GuiltyLion]

basically, if you wanna talk slots that are trying to look town for the sake of looking town vs trying to solve, reread what I pointed out about NDMath's posts. They're all fluff, there's nothing that actually leads to development of reads and there's no discernible thought process that indicates that he's trying to solve.

[popopopopopopo]

Scratch is scummy independently though, his early play was intentionally inoffensive and his hop on my wagon was very bad.

I literally just played a game with scratch scum which ended right after this game started - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go - and they felt way more scummy and bland/intentionally inoffensive there than they do here.

I actually give them a fair amount of towncred for the way they scumread me early because I was posting/efforting so much in the other Blitz game as it was ending and hadn't started doing my thing yet here. That made sense from a town mindset

meta means very little to me, i dont really use it, it can be twisted and manipulated by both the player themselves from game to game and by people using it to back up points.

[popopopopopopo]

that glitch wall is funny since i had stopped the vote slaving by the time he made that post lol

[Looker]

I don't understand how you can believe that. What reasons do you have for it? I have been trying to find mafia and I want a doctor to heal me so that I'm not killed tonight.

If you don't die tonight, are we expected to believe that a Doctor healed you?

It's bizarre to me that you think the only possible explanation for this game state is that I'm scum.

If i assume you are town then i have too many townreads and not enough scumreads on the other players.

Some thoughts...

Go after people like Looker, glitch and Nauci.

He should go after people like Candy Shop, mavsfan41, and NDMath.

---

• If NDMath thinks GuiltyLion is scum, why isn't he voting him?

[osuka]

osuka dialing back me, on first take I can kinda see it being town, but I don't like how he didn't really address where the meta point originally came from and I don't like the subtle redirect to Nauci who had started the wagon on him. I also just don't find Nauci's game all that scummy I think she's pretty likely town and a bad vote for today.

I agree with Quick that optimal mafia play is moreso about pushing mislynches than looking town, but I think the argument kinda quickly derailed from the original point about whether Nauci's play serves a scum agenda or not. The reason I think it's town-indicative that she defused the Osuka/Quick argument is because if she is scum then she's removing distractions or potential footholds to vote/engage at no benefit to herself. I don't agree that she gets any real "towncred" from that, as evidenced by the fact that many players are still throwing around the idea of voting her.

Glitch actually felt more townie to me in his most recent post than any of his past ones, he's not a bonafide townread yet and I don't think I'd cry if he got lynched but I'm more interested in osuka/NDMath slots first.

as i said I read a bunch of your games back in the day and that was the one thing that stood out to me.

i felt like nauci had been trying to pocket me for a bit there though and she only started pushing me after i called that out, which i found even weirder

[popopopopopopo]

attacking me for the vote slaving, there's no scumhunting there. it was a fun joke with norwe that evolved into a pretty unique reaction test that stimulated a lot of discussion.

glitch attacks me for the slaving, after i had stopped, and he doesn't even acknowledge that the slaving had stopped by that point (just a little further up the page!). i'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt that he hadn't seen my vote on cat, but its a bad look.

@Glitch now that i'm no longer norwe's vote slave are you still comfortable with your vote.

[popopopopopopo]

IDK why Scum would do that other than to look Town.

I think you're comically missing the point of what scum's job is.

Which is NOT to look Town.

Not sure i agree... but ok, not a hill i'd want to die on.

Scum's job is to lynch Town. Town's job is to lynch Scum. That's the only reason why Town looks Town and Scum looks Scum. Otherwise SOMETIMES Scum wants to look Town, but not at the expense of lynching Town. Does that make sense?

i don't think this does. if scum looks like town and town wants to lynch (what looks like) scum, then the obvious conclusion is that town will not lynch scum, which in turn means that town gets lynched (by exclusion, assuming a lynch)

Sorry, your fundamental way you play mafia is WRONG.

lol @ this whole exchange

[NorwegianboyEE]

We’re taking up the mantle of philosophizing about the ways of playing mafia just as the title of this game intended.