In post 218, GuiltyLion wrote:so I've just quickly skimmed/reread through the game
my opening tack here was trying to sort a few newbies, mainly TTJT and Italiano, cause I didn't hit an early townread from either and I tend to find newbie scum are easy to catch with a little pushing and prodding. However, as they posted more their thought processes became more clear to me and I don't especially think either is scum, which left me feeling a little aimless and wanting to reset a bit and reread.
Overall, I still townread Ydrasse, UNOwen, DoctorPepper as well - it's definitely possible that one is competent scum fooling me, but even when I went back to see if I could find avenues to where they're potentially playing to a scum agenda, nothing stood out to me.
I townread Walter as well. I think he's engaging in the game in a loose and carefree way which is difficult for scum, especially newbie scum, to emulate effectively. And I think the suspicion on 72 is genuine because there was not a ton of explicit support there and 72 strikes me as a slot that would be intimidating to push for a mislynch if you know he's town and you're not experienced/adept as scum.
which leaves piisirrational and 72offsuit. I scumread both of these slots and would currently be fine with a lynch on either.
Let's start with pi - I think Italiano makes a good point about pi's lack of activity, and I think the posts pi
did
leave us with are very inoffensive and meant to blend in. His take on Italiano in
65 is pure hedge, he doesn't scumread or townread Italiano on it (giving flexibility to take a read in either direction as the situation develops), he sheeps the reasoning Ydrasse already gave, and it's ultimately a post that neither develops any reads on any of the players involved, and also will not cause conflict with anybody in the situation.
It's made worse by the fact that he shades DoctorPepper in
138 only
after
being prompted -> if these thoughts were there at the time of
65, he chose not to post them, so to me it seems likely that pi only came up with this reasoning because they had to after the fact.
139 has much of the same problems as
65. Simply telling people stuff is NAI and not making any effort to instead highlight things that
are
AI, or generate content. It's classic newbie scum posting.
VOTE: piisirrational slot
As for 72, I imagine this is a harder sell as he strikes me as a competent player and I can definitely empathize with why some of you townread him. With him, it's more of a process of elimination from my townreads and an
absence
of towniness than any clear scum-motive to his posting. 72 is making an effort to ask questions and give thoughts and participate in conversation, but none of them ever gave me good feels in the way that most of the other players posts have. I recognize that's a vague and holistic assessment, I'm not sure how to explain it convincingly, but I want it noted down for future reference. I can also call out a couple of minor things which aren't especially scummy on their own, but together serve as circumstantial evidence that makes me feel validated in this PoE read:
- I only paid attention to this on reread, but he calls out Walter for the "greet the thread tell" (
46) while seemingly missing that Ydrasse also greeted the thread (
7). I think if he was genuinely scouting for this tell in RVS, he would have noticed that both players did it. Especially because when he voted Walter in post
12 he didn't mention the tell, he only brought it up later. That feels more likely to be scum adding justifications to their vote after the fact than town who noticed it to begin with. Props to Owen who called him out on this in
57, and I don't think 72 ever gave an explanation for it - which he did promise in
104. Let's hear that explanation now?
- I brought this up already, but I really didn't like the implication in
150 that TTJT was scummy for worrying about how he's perceived. Sure, it's survivalistic in nature, but both town or scum players generally want to survive and understand how they're being read by other players in the game. The idea of "scum"-survivalism specifically is doing a lot of legwork to mask the fact that 72 isn't actually explaining why TTJT asking for reads on himself is more likely to be scum behavior than town behavior.
- Given that I find piisirational decent odds of scum, I'm looking for people who haven't paid any attention to pi or put any pressure there. 72 has not once mentioned his play in this game at all. This alone is not scum-indicative - I myself also haven't mentioned pi up to this point! (but I'm doing it now!) - but if we see a red flip on that slot I'd be very wary of anyone who didn't engage with or mention him in any substantive way, and 72 fits that profile.
There's a few things to like and a few things I dislike here.
1. Re: GL's opening moves - seems a reasonable explanation Re: the flow of his posts throughout the game,
though 2 things are troubling me.
a) The quick change of heart off the TTJT wagon.
In moving off the TTJT wagon,
172 , GL simply says "That said, I appreciate your explanation here and I think the overall post feels genuine"
TTJT,'s response in
123 does not particuarly strike me as being convincingly of a town mindset.
TTJT says of Doctorpepper, that he is "an experienced player pushing a newbie [IVD] who has not been on RVS on this site before".
-- which is untrue as IVD has played a game previously and has been through RVS.
I disagree that a single early-game vote, as DP voted IVD, compares to TTJT being actually lynched for his newbie "no lynch" play.
What I;m trying to say is, I'm not really liking GL's rationale and the shift away here from pressuring TTJT.
b) I'm not really understanding what has brought on the self-reflection/self explanation. It's kinda reading as being a little overly self-conscious - it wasn;t really called for by anyone and points a little towards a guilty conscience.
2. The statement re: TRing of Ydrasse, UNOwen, DoctorPepper can go either way. It's very easy for !scumGL to just throw out a few cheap TRs here without real explanation
I'm OK with him NOT elaborating the strength of his reads, just making the point that its a very non-committal approach for !scumGL here, that leaves !scumGL with flexibility who to try to mislynch in the days ahead,
whilst also potentially trying to gain townie points for appearing to develop reads as well as the pocketing of said players.
3. The townread of walter here feels genuine and the description of watler as being "loose and carefree" seems appropriate.
Donl;t really agree with the 2nd point here. It's not like !scumWalter is solo and has to create a perfect storm for myself to be mislynched on his lonesome.
4. Voting a replacing out/AFK player feels like a waste of a vote, and basically suiting scum agenda its not like pi can reply.
Even in getting a reply from the replacement here, its very easy for !scumSera to read the thread and take the path thats best suits scumagenda, as they are not tied to their predecessors "reads"
Voting/FoSing a lurker in !townPi/now-Sera (easy mislynch target), as well as a "competent" player in myself (removal of a potential threat), would certainly suit !scumagenda.
Obviously that depends on pi/Sera's alignment. [not that I;m a particularly good player or anything, but I do ahave a couple of games under my belt]
5. The overall assessment of my slot feels genuine, although it is misguided for !townGL or shady for !scumGL.
a) I pretty much have caught scum as cop, primarily off the same sentiment as that proprosed here by GL, namely an absence of townie vibes from LL in Newbie 2001.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=82865
Only 1 other player (fwog) scumreads LL.
What I'm trying to say, is that I can see !townGL's viewpoint here.
b) I'm OK to explain this now. My singling out of a single player despite several players greeting the whole thread, was intentional.
I've tried out the newbie greeting = scum theory and it was a crock of crap, where we vote for our tracker, lol.
See: Newbie 1994
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=82538
I picked walter as my RVS, as it was his first game, and thought I'd be more likely to get an alignment-indicative reaction
from him than a more expreienced player.
I also chose to push him on the "greeting-scum-tell" because it was his first game, whereas Ydrasse already had played a game.
I wanted to see others reactions to my overzealous and lame push on walter. No bites on the fishing rod.
c) We can agree to disagree here. Being concerned with reads on yourself IS a trait that scum tend to have.
I don;t see why I ahve to explain this point. Does anyone else disagree with me here?
Scum wants to know of other's reads on themselves to manipulate who they vote and lynch, and who they will elect to night kill.
In
175 , GL states: "Townies should be concerned with how people view them too, I don't think being worried about why you are being scumread is scum-indicative.
Well, TTJT in
82 , does NOT ask for an EXPLANATION WHY for a SCUMREAD, as GL stated, but simply asks "Where do I fall in your reads?"
So my point still stands, TTJT's 82 IS scummy. Saying my implication that TTJT is scummy, does not feel like a genuine point here from GL.
d) This last point is just garbage. There is like 0 to interact with pi over - as GL himself states.
