Newbie 2014: Aesthetic | Game Over

[keyenpeydee]

Vote count 1.04

---

[2] ArthurConyl

- votato, Mikul,

[1] votato

- brassherald,

[1] Town looter

- ArthurConyl,

[5] Not Voting

- VexoOssa, mutesa1, Porkens, Town looter, Anthony87,

MOD NOTES

: I've fixed all the vote counts. Apparently, I put votato on every vc twice (one is in Not Voting). Please let me know if I did some errors on a vc. Thanks and Good luck!
With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch. Day One will end in

(expired on 2020-06-30 20:00:00)

.
#AllBlackLivesMatter

[VexoOssa]

Hi, I'm not dead!! I'm just reading really quick and then I will actually make a post with substance!!

[keyenpeydee]

Sorry for just realizing it now. Porkens hasn't posted yet and the game started 3 days ago. He has been prodded. If he doesn't reply for 24 hours, he's being replaced.

[Porkens]

Sorry folks! This game slipped my mind!

[Town looter]

@mikul:
Calm down, spamming is subjective. He might see it as spam while you don't. And I disagree with you calling that lazy, excessively flooding makes it hard even for active players to keep up. And flooding *is* a legit strat used by scum, so no need to get offended by mutesea.

@town looter:
All your "good reasoning" is me voting and unvoting Mikul. As for scum not picking up on jokes thats bullshit, I'll bet you're making that up. Cmon, give me at least two examples of that.
FOS'ing brass for noting a well known fact is unreasonable.
To clarify on the lurking, I thought it would be anti-town if you did that. I made a mistake missing the joke and I admit to it.
So really all you have to go on me is:
1) Me not picking up on a joke
2) Me unvoting because I realised I'd put Mikul on L-2. If he only had one vote on him, I would not have unvoted.

Part of me wants to throw Arthur back into null-ville simply because this is a the second time he has read something incorrectly (his unvote, then thinking I am votato). Could be that he's a skim reader.

That being said, he has felt the need to react each time - that anxiety again. Now anxiety/reacting isn't inherently scummy (I did my fair share in the last game), but I do buy the theory of the missed joke (BUT LETS NOT TALK ABOUT IT AND ANNOY BRASS!).

SE question: how hard to we push for claims around here? I did some reading on the forum where Mikul is from, and pushing for early claims seems to be the accepted approach. But I haven't seen that used much here. As I type this I am thinking it's because of the setup... Newbie setup is probably too small to push for lots of claims, esp on d1?

[Mikul]

SE question: how hard to we push for claims around here? I did some reading on the forum where Mikul is from, and pushing for early claims seems to be the accepted approach. But I haven't seen that used much here. As I type this I am thinking it's because of the setup... Newbie setup is probably too small to push for lots of claims, esp on d1?

pushing for claims dp1 is inherently scummy, the place where i'm from is longer really active. It converted into another site full of horrible players and inactivity. If you are reading there for information on how to play mafia, I would really advise against it. The only reason someone should claim on dp1 is they are they lynch target and hope that claiming can stop it

[VexoOssa]

At one point I voted mutesa1 via a dice roll. I didn't do it right, but I know how to now.

As I am sifting through everything looking for small reasons to actually vote for someone and I keep getting caught on this

So a few quick little reads:
@Mikul - leaning scum? - I'm not sure about flooding, but imo scum tend to do it a lot so town can't keep up. Yoy say flooding is a bad thing, although you're doing that yourself. Metareading isn't always reliable, but it can be useful. I did a quick metaread of your last game - as scum you were pretty confident and overjustifying things. Kinda similar to how you're behaving right now.
@Looter - neutral - Well he wants to lynch me and I'm still waiting for a reply. Also voted Mikul earlier based on metareading? Not really strong enough to lynch someone on.
Everyone else needs to post more.

That was typed from my phone and was covered with errors, sorry. Back to my computer now.

That was meant to say flooding "isn't" a bad thing. I think any post can be good depending on what someone can draw from it, and I objectively would take flooding over a game like last game in the last 2 day phases. Inactivity and a lack of posting is typically what can kill town faster than anything, and if people aren't willing to be active then they should consider that before signing up. Not saying that game will be like this, I'll take herald at his word and go along with "it's a weekend" so it will be active later

also that vote was not a hard read, it's a reaction test. Most things I tend to do are reaction tests, especially in dp1 when there is nothing to go off of because no one is participating. But I would much prefer not to just sit here and hope people are active and I'm sure as hell not going to go along with "oh they can't keep up with 60 posts, so stop posting".

I really like playing mafia. Normally I play it with friends, I have never played on a forum though. That being said I don't know how different it is, but when we play flooding is commonly used by mafia not the town. In my eyes it isn't so much about there being more reactions to pull from, but more reasons to sift through to find incriminating evidence. I'm not completely caught up, so I'm gunna do that. If yall could just maybe help me think through this while I do it would be much appreciated.

Alright as I was sending it I saw arthur's post quoted in the post review, so I bet this is talked about a bit after what I read up to. I still think it seems sorta scummy to flood, but that is probably due more to past experience than anything.

[Porkens]

That’s an interesting 5 pages, y’all. As I read through I quoted some posts that caught my eye. I pasted them into this spoiler and I’m planning to go through and give my thoughts. As I write this I haven’t reaaaallly started to firmly read anyone yet,

Spoiler:

Very exited to be playing mafia with you all!

This is my first game of forum mafia (I'm still learning the jargon/abbreviations), but I've played a bit here and there IRL.

VOTE: VOTE: town looter

UNVOTE: Townlooter

VOTE: Votato (horse poo)


I don't like the tone of your tone sir. Your voice sounds off

VOTE: town looter

For losing last game

A good vote to be sure.

VOTE: Mikul

Once scum, always scum

Nice to meet yall!! I know we can't stay friendly forever, but not having to choose a solid vote is pretty calming.

The dice say Vote: mutesa1

nothing against you m8 just had to do something..

Wait, I can't do that, we're still in the RVS. Literally just realised that's the third vote on Mikul. Better UNVOTE: Mikul
VOTE: Anthony, because there can only be one A-man...

He said ask him anything, so I asked him something.

Also slight scum-lean on Mikul. We just played together, he won as scum, I helped him with it as town (well helped his partner by getting lynched in MyLo). He's come into this game cock sure and swinging for the hills. I feel like this confidence is a reaction to him drawing scum again and a feeling of invulnerability. I think Town!Mikul would be playing it a bit more restrained.

As a note trying to find a "meta" in mafia is one of the worst ideas ever imo. For very new players it's a good idea but I've seen countless games get loss because (x) plays town this way, or (y) is scum that way. Anyone with half a brain cell would tend to work their gameplay around and attempt to use that

Also not that I need to defend myself, because you haven't seen me play as town. The reason to the spam posting is 2 fold

1) This site has good players but the pace of the games move like a snail. This is inherently anti town. The less a game posts, the easier it is to fail as town because of a lack of information. Every read someone gives, every vote someone casts is something you can look at in iso at the end of the game to help narrow down scum. So allowing people to coast by and not probe activity is a horrible idea, it's also why you guys lost last game. You allowed Luna at the end of the game to craft a very specific story and go along with the flow. Giving scum time to lurk is always bad

2) as we also learned last game, typically the troll or vocal person is a very easy mislynch to push for. So yes while spamming is fluffy, it also allows me to see who's votes end up on me and why. Because getting a bandwagon going on my behavior so far would not be a hard thing to do. So yes I've been watching and waiting to see who ends up on me

As a note trying to find a "meta" in mafia is one of the worst ideas ever imo. For very new players it's a good idea but I've seen countless games get loss because (x) plays town this way, or (y) is scum that way. Anyone with half a brain cell would tend to work their gameplay around and attempt to use that

My scum-lean isn't really based of meta on you per se, but more kinda pop psychology or something. Given how quiet this game is at the moment, it's about all I have to work with. That or we just lynch Arthur. I'd probably be ok with that too.

1) This site has good players but the pace of the games move like a snail. This is inherently anti town. The less a game posts, the easier it is to fail as town because of a lack of information. Every read someone gives, every vote someone casts is something you can look at in iso at the end of the game to help narrow down scum. So allowing people to coast by and not probe activity is a horrible idea, it's also why you guys lost last game. You allowed Luna at the end of the game to craft a very specific story and go along with the flow. Giving scum time to lurk is always bad

Yeah, but it also makes it hard for less active townies such as myself to contribute to the game, also which is anti-town. I don't disagree with you, but it's a balance.

So a few quick little reads:
@Mikul - leaning scum? - I'm not sure about flooding, but imo scum tend to do it a lot so town can't keep up. Yoy say flooding is a bad thing, although you're doing that yourself. Metareading isn't always reliable, but it can be useful. I did a quick metaread of your last game - as scum you were pretty confident and overjustifying things. Kinda similar to how you're behaving right now.
@Looter - neutral - Well he wants to lynch me and I'm still waiting for a reply. Also voted Mikul earlier based on metareading? Not really strong enough to lynch someone on.
Everyone else needs to post more.

I have no hard scum read, there isn't enough information to assess at the moment

herald has said he will be active in the week.

we have not heard from half the other people

votato has largely just tried to be a coach (which I do find weird). I did glance over his other games to see if he has did this before. As i said I don't read much into meta analysis, but I did figure if he was actively trying to be a mentor in these games that would be a pattern he would do in most of his other games. He has not did that as town in the games that I have seen. So it could possibly could be a way to build cred, but I really don't want to read into that hard. This is my internal bias from reading through the other players games just to acquaint myself with them.

town looter, in the one game that I played with him was always inactive. He was town. So i actually believe he is just generally busy. He has been way more active in this one so far than the last one. Could be scummy, but also could be that he is trying to be active because him being inactive is what cost them the game last game


So to clarify further, so this doesn't contradict what I said earlier. I don't like reading to much into "meta analysis" and that is all I have to go by at the moment. While I think trying to get a hard vote on someone based on what they did in past games is stupid, what they did in past games can also be 1 in several factors that could contribute to a vote. If you have reason to think someone is scummy, and you are dead set they behave this way in other games. That meta analysis should be something to add on top of why you scum read them currently, but not the only reason you scum read them.

I'm new to this version of mafia, but generally I find spam-posters worth voting out on the first Day, if we have nothing else to go on. At best, they're just cluttering the thread. At worst, it's scum that's using wackiness to make themselves appear benign. I'm hoping Mikul will post a little less spammy over this cycle - if he keeps this up, I think we should go for him.

Before we get in this fight, let's remember that tone is hard to read on the internet. Because it's text. Which is why Mark Twain could report on a caveman being discovered in the mountains and people didn't get the joke.

@Mikul Alright, I do agree this game is a little too quiet. Spam away I guess.
@looter Same question as votato, why would you lynch me?

Partly a reaction test, partly because your posts could be newbie-cum-scum - your posts have a feeling of anxiety in them, you seem to want to make sure you fit in and say the right thing. My question of Brassherald was semi-serious as I am still fairly inexperienced and wanted to see if your two posts were worth caring about.

Underlined the bits I think come across as anxious:

Tbh Mikul has about 60% of the posts so far, slow it down please. Can't keep up!
VOTE: Mikul

I know this is a dodgy tactic but I promise to unvote

if you slow down...

Wait, I can't do that, we're still in the RVS.

Literally just realised that's the third vote on Mikul. Better UNVOTE: Mikul

VOTE: Anthony, because there can only be one A-man...

VOTE: Town looter You've stated you want to lynch me without reason, and also voted Mikul pretty early in the game over metareading.

Also you've stated you'll be lurking the whole game.

Loads of anti-town plays that scum would do.

FoS: Town looter

Waaaaiiiit. Missed underlined in first skim.

Any reason you are paraphrasing what is fairly obviously a joke so critically?

Did you learn anything from the reaction test? This is good reasoning otherwise. In particular the nervous unvote usually comes from scum and scum have a hard time picking up on jokes. VOTE: arthur

Fos brass for that defense

I'm new to this version of mafia, but generally I find spam-posters worth voting out on the first Day, if we have nothing else to go on. At best, they're just cluttering the thread. At worst, it's scum that's using wackiness to make themselves appear benign. I'm hoping Mikul will post a little less spammy over this cycle - if he keeps this up, I think we should go for him.

Again I will certainly not posting and if you aren't capable.of keeping up with a mafia thread then feel free to try and Lynch me and I'll laugh as you take a loss.

I have 0 sympathy.for being lazy and poor play because of it. This is essentially both. If you can't read a thread don't sign up. If I was flooding to floor sure, I've already stated why I was flooding earlier. If you consider what I'm doing now flooding which is actively posting, then again you deserve to lose.

Can we all chill out a bit? Bickering about how much people should post is not gonna get us anywhere

I'm new to this version of mafia, but generally I find spam-posters worth voting out on the first Day, if we have nothing else to go on. At best, they're just cluttering the thread. At worst, it's scum that's using wackiness to make themselves appear benign. I'm hoping Mikul will post a little less spammy over this cycle - if he keeps this up, I think we should go for him.

Again I will certainly not posting and if you aren't capable.of keeping up with a mafia thread then feel free to try and Lynch me and I'll laugh as you take a loss.

I have 0 sympathy.for being lazy and poor play because of it. This is essentially both. If you can't read a thread don't sign up. If I was flooding to floor sure, I've already stated why I was flooding earlier. If you consider what I'm doing now flooding which is actively posting, then again you deserve to lose.

Calm down and try again, because I have no fucking clue what half of this means.

@mikul:
Calm down, spamming is subjective. He might see it as spam while you don't. And I disagree with you calling that lazy, excessively flooding makes it hard even for active players to keep up. And flooding *is* a legit strat used by scum, so no need to get offended by mutesea.

@town looter:
All your "good reasoning" is me voting and unvoting Mikul. As for scum not picking up on jokes thats bullshit, I'll bet you're making that up. Cmon, give me at least two examples of that.
FOS'ing brass for noting a well known fact is unreasonable.
To clarify on the lurking, I thought it would be anti-town if you did that. I made a mistake missing the joke and I admit to it.
So really all you have to go on me is:
1) Me not picking up on a joke
2) Me unvoting because I realised I'd put Mikul on L-2. If he only had one vote on him, I would not have unvoted.

It means exactly what it said. Saying do not post because I'm to lazy to read is something I will not be doing. Period. Also I am being quite calm, I'm just stating what should be obvious. Someone who has posted one time in the past 48 hours is saying let's lynch someone because they post to much, is a poor reflection of effort.

Granted this is a "newbie' game so I will excuse it as that for now. I've stated my intent for the hyper fluffy posts at the start, but I do agree with votato in that discussing whether it's something to keep reflecting on at this point is a bad idea. I've got what I wanted out of it anyway.

We don't really seem to be getting anywhere with this and I got what I wanted out of Town looter.
Despite the fact he was defending me, I find @brassherald's last post scummy:

Before we get in this fight, let's remember that tone is hard to read on the internet. Because it's text. Which is why Mark Twain could report on a caveman being discovered in the mountains and people didn't get the joke.

The reason I find that scummy is that he's been inactive for so far, then jumps out with this neutral, peace keeping post. Gives me the impression of a scum who wants to keep his head down and keep things chill.
Anything to say about it?

Going to repost so people can see it:

@town looter and @votato:

All your "good reasoning" is me voting and unvoting Mikul. As for scum not picking up on jokes thats bullshit, I'll bet you're making that up. Cmon, give me at least two examples of that.
FOS'ing brass for noting a well known fact is unreasonable.
To clarify on the lurking, I thought it would be anti-town if you did that. I made a mistake missing the joke and I admit to it.
So really all you have to go on me is:
1) Me not picking up on a joke
2) Me unvoting because I realised I'd put Mikul on L-2. If he only had one vote on him, I would not have unvoted.

Just re read the dp in iso. Posting my notes thus far

I have a slight to pretty good town read on town looter.

Post 36 - This seems like something town would do. I don't think he would try to make that logic as scum because it would get him fosed. I actually believe he thought what I was doing was against my meta. It seems genuine reading back in iso.

Post 58 - I read both the logic to this and the tone of the post as town

Slight Scum read on Arthur.

After reading back and looking for what people mentioned I do consider post 31 weird. I would encourage people to read his posts in iso. I don't think town would have unvoted here because I was not at risk of being hammered or lynched. In iso this especially seems nervous.

The other thing I've noticed with Arthur is he is parroting people

In 68, he tells me to calm down which seems like he copied bras. In 49 he tells me to spam away and agrees with town looter and posts what he says nearly verbatim after telling me to slow down and put a vote on me for it.


The only thing in his favor imo, is logic vs herald in 76. I do agree that peacekeeping seems to be a good thing to do as scum to fight for town cred. It also can be anti scum to break up a fight because scum would want the fight to go on and clutter the dp more. As I'm typing this I'm actually starting to disagree with my initial assessment. I don't think this was anti town of herald.

So yeah , Arthur is where I'm landing now. TL summed this up pretty well, it's very weird posting in iso. "nooby scum" as he called it and I think I agree with that. Will stick my vote there unless something else comes of this dp as this does stick out the most to me in iso

@mikul:
Calm down, spamming is subjective. He might see it as spam while you don't. And I disagree with you calling that lazy, excessively flooding makes it hard even for active players to keep up. And flooding *is* a legit strat used by scum, so no need to get offended by mutesea.

@town looter:
All your "good reasoning" is me voting and unvoting Mikul. As for scum not picking up on jokes thats bullshit, I'll bet you're making that up. Cmon, give me at least two examples of that.
FOS'ing brass for noting a well known fact is unreasonable.
To clarify on the lurking, I thought it would be anti-town if you did that. I made a mistake missing the joke and I admit to it.
So really all you have to go on me is:
1) Me not picking up on a joke
2) Me unvoting because I realised I'd put Mikul on L-2. If he only had one vote on him, I would not have unvoted.

its not simply that you unvoted. its the way you went about it. although scum often unvote RVS wagons that approach a lynch out of fear of being on such a bad wagon.
not picking up on humor is actually a very useful tell. Because scum are lying, their brains have a hard time picking up on humor. it could be that you just are incapable of sarcasm/humor, but for your sake i prefer to think that youre scum

Just re read the dp in iso. Posting my notes thus far

The bickering was getting nowhere and I didn't feel like I had a lot to contribute. I like that you decided to just give your reads and try to move on. UNVOTE: Mikul. I voted for Mikul as well for the same reason that mutesa noted, I just don't like spam. I agree with Mikul's defense though which is why I'm unvoting. Mikul seems to want to continue with the game just fine and I don't think being fluffy at the start is a reason to vote right now.

I'm hesitant to L-2 Arthur for only one reason (and if someone wants to show me why this is meaningless, then I have no problem voting), does him trying to make sure the vote against him is counted seem anti scum? I guess a scum could see this as an easy opportunity to show that they are townie; "Look guys, I wanted to make sure the vote against me is counted!" (especially because he did it in forum vs. a pm to the mod).

Missing Town Looters joke reads pretty scummy to me. Even in his defense he says

I probably missed the joke? Even if it was a joke, its still anti-town to lurk.

He isn't capable of fully accepting that it was (obviously now as Town Looter is posting) a joke an tacks on that lurking is scum? Nobody said they would be lurking now though. If you are really against lurking then get on the people who haven't posted yet.

I also noticed Arthur parroting people as Mikul did, that is pretty odd. It looks to me like Arthur wants to show he agrees with the "group." Maybe a play to create a town-bloc including himself in it.

FoS

Arthur, no vote yet.

Just re read the dp in iso. Posting my notes thus far

The bickering was getting nowhere and I didn't feel like I had a lot to contribute. I like that you decided to just give your reads and try to move on. UNVOTE: Mikul. I voted for Mikul as well for the same reason that mutesa noted, I just don't like spam. I agree with Mikul's defense though which is why I'm unvoting. Mikul seems to want to continue with the game just fine and I don't think being fluffy at the start is a reason to vote right now.

I'm hesitant to L-2 Arthur for only one reason (and if someone wants to show me why this is meaningless, then I have no problem voting), does him trying to make sure the vote against him is counted seem anti scum? I guess a scum could see this as an easy opportunity to show that they are townie; "Look guys, I wanted to make sure the vote against me is counted!" (especially because he did it in forum vs. a pm to the mod).

Missing Town Looters joke reads pretty scummy to me. Even in his defense he says

I probably missed the joke? Even if it was a joke, its still anti-town to lurk.

He isn't capable of fully accepting that it was (obviously now as Town Looter is posting) a joke an tacks on that lurking is scum? Nobody said they would be lurking now though. If you are really against lurking then get on the people who haven't posted yet.

I also noticed Arthur parroting people as Mikul did, that is pretty odd. It looks to me like Arthur wants to show he agrees with the "group." Maybe a play to create a town-bloc including himself in it.

FoS

Arthur, no vote yet.

you should vote someone if you think they're scum. so long as you state that its L-2 or L-1 its probably ok. if someone else lolhammers then that person will face the consequences, not you. the exception is if you plan on hammering you should state intent first so the person can claim and give a final defense/state a few last things

why is it that everyone who comes from epicmafia is super cocky?

why is it that everyone who comes from epicmafia is super cocky?

I'm not from epic mafia, I'm just generally an asshole in forum games. Because it's easier to get reactions from people.

I just want to clarify, I wasn't coming in to defend whatever person didn't get the joke, I just didn't want to read fucking 4 pages about how someone is joking and someone else didn't get it and then its resolved as "Well, that was a waste of time"

I literally can't be bothered to look up the two of their names, but it's not going to be useful content to me for the two of them to bicker about a fucking joke.

SE question: how hard to we push for claims around here? I did some reading on the forum where Mikul is from, and pushing for early claims seems to be the accepted approach. But I haven't seen that used much here. As I type this I am thinking it's because of the setup... Newbie setup is probably too small to push for lots of claims, esp on d1?

pushing for claims dp1 is inherently scummy, the place where i'm from is longer really active. It converted into another site full of horrible players and inactivity. If you are reading there for information on how to play mafia, I would really advise against it. The only reason someone should claim on dp1 is they are they lynch target and hope that claiming can stop it

Ugh I just lost all my replies to these quotes...posting this for now and I’ll add to it later.

[Porkens]

Looks like my personal intro got wiped too. Hi y’all I’m porkens I’ve been playing mafia for 12 years, I started on EpicMafia and I am no better now than I was the day I started. I’m going to go throu and give my reactions to some posts that caught my eye. Not sure I’m ready to vote yet but I’ll try to at least give something of a readslist tonight.

Spoiler:

Very exited to be playing mafia with you all!

This is my first game of forum mafia (I'm still learning the jargon/abbreviations), but I've played a bit here and there IRL.

VOTE: VOTE: town looter

This into is slightly scummy just because it’s so overtly friendly. Nice to meet you

UNVOTE: Townlooter

VOTE: Votato (horse poo)


I don't like the tone of your tone sir. Your voice sounds off

This is scummier than the first because the reason is unnecessary, but it’s still there...why do you need to justify an rvs vote at all?

VOTE: town looter

For losing last game

A good vote to be sure.

VOTE: Mikul

Once scum, always scum

Omgus rvs votes are a touch scummier than true RVS votes in my opinion. Not sure why, they just feel like an easy way to limit interactions.

Nice to meet yall!! I know we can't stay friendly forever, but not having to choose a solid vote is pretty calming.

The dice say Vote: mutesa1

nothing against you m8 just had to do something..

This, however, is the scummiest rvs vote there is. Pretending to actually randomize the vote is the epitome of “you can’t read into this vote”. Remember that town should try to become townread. This pseudorandom vote (and by the way it’s against the rules to use provable randomness like the dice tags to vote) is actively avoiding being read at all.

Wait, I can't do that, we're still in the RVS. Literally just realised that's the third vote on Mikul. Better UNVOTE: Mikul
VOTE: Anthony, because there can only be one A-man...

I don’t like this unvote at all. Why are you afraid of having someone get to l-1? It makes me think you are either their partner trying to protect them or you are scum who knows they are a mislynch and trying to get town points for getting off the wagon.

He said ask him anything, so I asked him something.

Also slight scum-lean on Mikul. We just played together, he won as scum, I helped him with it as town (well helped his partner by getting lynched in MyLo). He's come into this game cock sure and swinging for the hills. I feel like this confidence is a reaction to him drawing scum again and a feeling of invulnerability. I think Town!Mikul would be playing it a bit more restrained.

This seems like a perfectly fine starting point to me. Note that this is the end of “RVS” for townlooter.

As a note trying to find a "meta" in mafia is one of the worst ideas ever imo. For very new players it's a good idea but I've seen countless games get loss because (x) plays town this way, or (y) is scum that way. Anyone with half a brain cell would tend to work their gameplay around and attempt to use that

This seems like an overreaction to me overall. Why not address the accusation head on, instead of discrediting the line of inquiry? I’m not going to get into the meta of meta right now, but I’ll just say this: The Meta is Real.

Also not that I need to defend myself, because you haven't seen me play as town. The reason to the spam posting is 2 fold

1) This site has good players but the pace of the games move like a snail. This is inherently anti town. The less a game posts, the easier it is to fail as town because of a lack of information. Every read someone gives, every vote someone casts is something you can look at in iso at the end of the game to help narrow down scum. So allowing people to coast by and not probe activity is a horrible idea, it's also why you guys lost last game. You allowed Luna at the end of the game to craft a very specific story and go along with the flow. Giving scum time to lurk is always bad

2) as we also learned last game, typically the troll or vocal person is a very easy mislynch to push for. So yes while spamming is fluffy, it also allows me to see who's votes end up on me and why. Because getting a bandwagon going on my behavior so far would not be a hard thing to do. So yes I've been watching and waiting to see who ends up on me

Again, this reads as hyper defensive to me. I’m not ready to call it scum though, as defensiveness comes down more to personality than alignment in my opinion. I don’t think it’s good play as either alignment tho.

As a note trying to find a "meta" in mafia is one of the worst ideas ever imo. For very new players it's a good idea but I've seen countless games get loss because (x) plays town this way, or (y) is scum that way. Anyone with half a brain cell would tend to work their gameplay around and attempt to use that

My scum-lean isn't really based of meta on you per se, but more kinda pop psychology or something. Given how quiet this game is at the moment, it's about all I have to work with. That or we just lynch Arthur. I'd probably be ok with that too.

1) This site has good players but the pace of the games move like a snail. This is inherently anti town. The less a game posts, the easier it is to fail as town because of a lack of information. Every read someone gives, every vote someone casts is something you can look at in iso at the end of the game to help narrow down scum. So allowing people to coast by and not probe activity is a horrible idea, it's also why you guys lost last game. You allowed Luna at the end of the game to craft a very specific story and go along with the flow. Giving scum time to lurk is always bad

Yeah, but it also makes it hard for less active townies such as myself to contribute to the game, also which is anti-town. I don't disagree with you, but it's a balance.

I generally agree with this, up the Arthur read I think comes pretty much out of nowhere? I could be wrong but not going to double check at the moment.

So a few quick little reads:
@Mikul - leaning scum? - I'm not sure about flooding, but imo scum tend to do it a lot so town can't keep up. Yoy say flooding is a bad thing, although you're doing that yourself. Metareading isn't always reliable, but it can be useful. I did a quick metaread of your last game - as scum you were pretty confident and overjustifying things. Kinda similar to how you're behaving right now.
@Looter - neutral - Well he wants to lynch me and I'm still waiting for a reply. Also voted Mikul earlier based on metareading? Not really strong enough to lynch someone on.
Everyone else needs to post more.

This seems like scum fluff to me. Describing the game state rather than contributing to it. Not taking risks just stating factual information. Good way to seem active without risking anything.

I have no hard scum read, there isn't enough information to assess at the moment

herald has said he will be active in the week.

we have not heard from half the other people

votato has largely just tried to be a coach (which I do find weird). I did glance over his other games to see if he has did this before. As i said I don't read much into meta analysis, but I did figure if he was actively trying to be a mentor in these games that would be a pattern he would do in most of his other games. He has not did that as town in the games that I have seen. So it could possibly could be a way to build cred, but I really don't want to read into that hard. This is my internal bias from reading through the other players games just to acquaint myself with them.

town looter, in the one game that I played with him was always inactive. He was town. So i actually believe he is just generally busy. He has been way more active in this one so far than the last one. Could be scummy, but also could be that he is trying to be active because him being inactive is what cost them the game last game


So to clarify further, so this doesn't contradict what I said earlier. I don't like reading to much into "meta analysis" and that is all I have to go by at the moment. While I think trying to get a hard vote on someone based on what they did in past games is stupid, what they did in past games can also be 1 in several factors that could contribute to a vote. If you have reason to think someone is scummy, and you are dead set they behave this way in other games. That meta analysis should be something to add on top of why you scum read them currently, but not the only reason you scum read them.

The thinking aloud about votato strikes me as odd here.

I'm new to this version of mafia, but generally I find spam-posters worth voting out on the first Day, if we have nothing else to go on. At best, they're just cluttering the thread. At worst, it's scum that's using wackiness to make themselves appear benign. I'm hoping Mikul will post a little less spammy over this cycle - if he keeps this up, I think we should go for him.

How does wackiness make one appear benign? What wackiness have yo observed in this game so far?

Before we get in this fight, let's remember that tone is hard to read on the internet. Because it's text. Which is why Mark Twain could report on a caveman being discovered in the mountains and people didn't get the joke.

My first thought here is “who does this post take heat off of?”

@Mikul Alright, I do agree this game is a little too quiet. Spam away I guess.
@looter Same question as votato, why would you lynch me?

Partly a reaction test, partly because your posts could be newbie-cum-scum - your posts have a feeling of anxiety in them, you seem to want to make sure you fit in and say the right thing. My question of Brassherald was semi-serious as I am still fairly inexperienced and wanted to see if your two posts were worth caring about.

Underlined the bits I think come across as anxious:

Tbh Mikul has about 60% of the posts so far, slow it down please. Can't keep up!
VOTE: Mikul

I know this is a dodgy tactic but I promise to unvote

if you slow down...

Wait, I can't do that, we're still in the RVS.

Literally just realised that's the third vote on Mikul. Better UNVOTE: Mikul

VOTE: Anthony, because there can only be one A-man...

VOTE: Town looter You've stated you want to lynch me without reason, and also voted Mikul pretty early in the game over metareading.

Also you've stated you'll be lurking the whole game.

Loads of anti-town plays that scum would do.

FoS: Town looter

Waaaaiiiit. Missed underlined in first skim.

Any reason you are paraphrasing what is fairly obviously a joke so critically?

Did you learn anything from the reaction test? This is good reasoning otherwise. In particular the nervous unvote usually comes from scum and scum have a hard time picking up on jokes. VOTE: arthur

Fos brass for that defense

I think I agree with the Arthur vote here.

I'm new to this version of mafia, but generally I find spam-posters worth voting out on the first Day, if we have nothing else to go on. At best, they're just cluttering the thread. At worst, it's scum that's using wackiness to make themselves appear benign. I'm hoping Mikul will post a little less spammy over this cycle - if he keeps this up, I think we should go for him.

Again I will certainly not posting and if you aren't capable.of keeping up with a mafia thread then feel free to try and Lynch me and I'll laugh as you take a loss.

I have 0 sympathy.for being lazy and poor play because of it. This is essentially both. If you can't read a thread don't sign up. If I was flooding to floor sure, I've already stated why I was flooding earlier. If you consider what I'm doing now flooding which is actively posting, then again you deserve to lose.

This “vote me and you deserve to lose” always rubs me the wrong way. Not saying it’s always scum but anytime a player frames the argument as “agree with me or you are stupid”, it pings me the wrong way.

Can we all chill out a bit? Bickering about how much people should post is not gonna get us anywhere

I agree with the sentiment and probably NAI but I still have to ask “does this help one over another?” My gut says here it s just for the good of the game as a whole.

I'm new to this version of mafia, but generally I find spam-posters worth voting out on the first Day, if we have nothing else to go on. At best, they're just cluttering the thread. At worst, it's scum that's using wackiness to make themselves appear benign. I'm hoping Mikul will post a little less spammy over this cycle - if he keeps this up, I think we should go for him.

Again I will certainly not posting and if you aren't capable.of keeping up with a mafia thread then feel free to try and Lynch me and I'll laugh as you take a loss.

I have 0 sympathy.for being lazy and poor play because of it. This is essentially both. If you can't read a thread don't sign up. If I was flooding to floor sure, I've already stated why I was flooding earlier. If you consider what I'm doing now flooding which is actively posting, then again you deserve to lose.

Calm down and try again, because I have no fucking clue what half of this means.

Hmmm not sure I don’t want to hold you to different standards and I don’t think you are both scum...but...still...

@mikul:
Calm down, spamming is subjective. He might see it as spam while you don't. And I disagree with you calling that lazy, excessively flooding makes it hard even for active players to keep up. And flooding *is* a legit strat used by scum, so no need to get offended by mutesea.

@town looter:
All your "good reasoning" is me voting and unvoting Mikul. As for scum not picking up on jokes thats bullshit, I'll bet you're making that up. Cmon, give me at least two examples of that.
FOS'ing brass for noting a well known fact is unreasonable.
To clarify on the lurking, I thought it would be anti-town if you did that. I made a mistake missing the joke and I admit to it.
So really all you have to go on me is:
1) Me not picking up on a joke
2) Me unvoting because I realised I'd put Mikul on L-2. If he only had one vote on him, I would not have unvoted.

This isn’t a good defense as scum or town. It’s a minor point you could let go by, but you are picking it as the hill to die on. Just blow it off with a lol and scumhunt elsewhere. Remember that town don’t need to get wrapped up in defending themselves, and scum can corner a defensive towny fairly easily.

It means exactly what it said. Saying do not post because I'm to lazy to read is something I will not be doing. Period. Also I am being quite calm, I'm just stating what should be obvious. Someone who has posted one time in the past 48 hours is saying let's lynch someone because they post to much, is a poor reflection of effort.

Granted this is a "newbie' game so I will excuse it as that for now. I've stated my intent for the hyper fluffy posts at the start, but I do agree with votato in that discussing whether it's something to keep reflecting on at this point is a bad idea. I've got what I wanted out of it anyway.

What did you get out of it?

We don't really seem to be getting anywhere with this and I got what I wanted out of Town looter.
Despite the fact he was defending me, I find @brassherald's last post scummy:

Before we get in this fight, let's remember that tone is hard to read on the internet. Because it's text. Which is why Mark Twain could report on a caveman being discovered in the mountains and people didn't get the joke.

The reason I find that scummy is that he's been inactive for so far, then jumps out with this neutral, peace keeping post. Gives me the impression of a scum who wants to keep his head down and keep things chill.
Anything to say about it?

What did you want to get out of him?

Going to repost so people can see it:

@town looter and @votato:

All your "good reasoning" is me voting and unvoting Mikul. As for scum not picking up on jokes thats bullshit, I'll bet you're making that up. Cmon, give me at least two examples of that.
FOS'ing brass for noting a well known fact is unreasonable.
To clarify on the lurking, I thought it would be anti-town if you did that. I made a mistake missing the joke and I admit to it.
So really all you have to go on me is:
1) Me not picking up on a joke
2) Me unvoting because I realised I'd put Mikul on L-2. If he only had one vote on him, I would not have unvoted.

I still don’t know why you’d unvote at l-2. Why be afraid of putting someone at l-2?

Just re read the dp in iso. Posting my notes thus far

I have a slight to pretty good town read on town looter.

Post 36 - This seems like something town would do. I don't think he would try to make that logic as scum because it would get him fosed. I actually believe he thought what I was doing was against my meta. It seems genuine reading back in iso.

Post 58 - I read both the logic to this and the tone of the post as town

Slight Scum read on Arthur.

After reading back and looking for what people mentioned I do consider post 31 weird. I would encourage people to read his posts in iso. I don't think town would have unvoted here because I was not at risk of being hammered or lynched. In iso this especially seems nervous.

The other thing I've noticed with Arthur is he is parroting people

In 68, he tells me to calm down which seems like he copied bras. In 49 he tells me to spam away and agrees with town looter and posts what he says nearly verbatim after telling me to slow down and put a vote on me for it.


The only thing in his favor imo, is logic vs herald in 76. I do agree that peacekeeping seems to be a good thing to do as scum to fight for town cred. It also can be anti scum to break up a fight because scum would want the fight to go on and clutter the dp more. As I'm typing this I'm actually starting to disagree with my initial assessment. I don't think this was anti town of herald.

So yeah , Arthur is where I'm landing now. TL summed this up pretty well, it's very weird posting in iso. "nooby scum" as he called it and I think I agree with that. Will stick my vote there unless something else comes of this dp as this does stick out the most to me in iso

I’m not checking right now but we’re you voting Arthur at this time? If not, why not lay down a vote after your case?

@mikul:
Calm down, spamming is subjective. He might see it as spam while you don't. And I disagree with you calling that lazy, excessively flooding makes it hard even for active players to keep up. And flooding *is* a legit strat used by scum, so no need to get offended by mutesea.

@town looter:
All your "good reasoning" is me voting and unvoting Mikul. As for scum not picking up on jokes thats bullshit, I'll bet you're making that up. Cmon, give me at least two examples of that.
FOS'ing brass for noting a well known fact is unreasonable.
To clarify on the lurking, I thought it would be anti-town if you did that. I made a mistake missing the joke and I admit to it.
So really all you have to go on me is:
1) Me not picking up on a joke
2) Me unvoting because I realised I'd put Mikul on L-2. If he only had one vote on him, I would not have unvoted.

its not simply that you unvoted. its the way you went about it. although scum often unvote RVS wagons that approach a lynch out of fear of being on such a bad wagon.
not picking up on humor is actually a very useful tell. Because scum are lying, their brains have a hard time picking up on humor. it could be that you just are incapable of sarcasm/humor, but for your sake i prefer to think that youre scum

In general I dig the case but again I hate that
“Your either scum or bad” tactic. Personal pet peeve.

Just re read the dp in iso. Posting my notes thus far

The bickering was getting nowhere and I didn't feel like I had a lot to contribute. I like that you decided to just give your reads and try to move on. UNVOTE: Mikul. I voted for Mikul as well for the same reason that mutesa noted, I just don't like spam. I agree with Mikul's defense though which is why I'm unvoting. Mikul seems to want to continue with the game just fine and I don't think being fluffy at the start is a reason to vote right now.

I'm hesitant to L-2 Arthur for only one reason (and if someone wants to show me why this is meaningless, then I have no problem voting), does him trying to make sure the vote against him is counted seem anti scum? I guess a scum could see this as an easy opportunity to show that they are townie; "Look guys, I wanted to make sure the vote against me is counted!" (especially because he did it in forum vs. a pm to the mod).

Missing Town Looters joke reads pretty scummy to me. Even in his defense he says

I probably missed the joke? Even if it was a joke, its still anti-town to lurk.

He isn't capable of fully accepting that it was (obviously now as Town Looter is posting) a joke an tacks on that lurking is scum? Nobody said they would be lurking now though. If you are really against lurking then get on the people who haven't posted yet.

I also noticed Arthur parroting people as Mikul did, that is pretty odd. It looks to me like Arthur wants to show he agrees with the "group." Maybe a play to create a town-bloc including himself in it.

FoS

Arthur, no vote yet.

If Arthur is scum, this is his partner. No reason not to advance the wagon after agreeing with it in substance, and even worse to hedge so verbally.

Just re read the dp in iso. Posting my notes thus far

The bickering was getting nowhere and I didn't feel like I had a lot to contribute. I like that you decided to just give your reads and try to move on. UNVOTE: Mikul. I voted for Mikul as well for the same reason that mutesa noted, I just don't like spam. I agree with Mikul's defense though which is why I'm unvoting. Mikul seems to want to continue with the game just fine and I don't think being fluffy at the start is a reason to vote right now.

I'm hesitant to L-2 Arthur for only one reason (and if someone wants to show me why this is meaningless, then I have no problem voting), does him trying to make sure the vote against him is counted seem anti scum? I guess a scum could see this as an easy opportunity to show that they are townie; "Look guys, I wanted to make sure the vote against me is counted!" (especially because he did it in forum vs. a pm to the mod).

Missing Town Looters joke reads pretty scummy to me. Even in his defense he says

I probably missed the joke? Even if it was a joke, its still anti-town to lurk.

He isn't capable of fully accepting that it was (obviously now as Town Looter is posting) a joke an tacks on that lurking is scum? Nobody said they would be lurking now though. If you are really against lurking then get on the people who haven't posted yet.

I also noticed Arthur parroting people as Mikul did, that is pretty odd. It looks to me like Arthur wants to show he agrees with the "group." Maybe a play to create a town-bloc including himself in it.

FoS

Arthur, no vote yet.

you should vote someone if you think they're scum. so long as you state that its L-2 or L-1 its probably ok. if someone else lolhammers then that person will face the consequences, not you. the exception is if you plan on hammering you should state intent first so the person can claim and give a final defense/state a few last things

Yep.

why is it that everyone who comes from epicmafia is super cocky?

EM has had a super toxic meta for a long time. It might be getting a little better now? But for a long time being an ass or getting in with a clique was the only way to survive socially. In my experience.

why is it that everyone who comes from epicmafia is super cocky?

I'm not from epic mafia, I'm just generally an asshole in forum games. Because it's easier to get reactions from people.

It is possible to be a toxic jerk and win games because you trigger people and drive people out of their minds and piss them off to where they get demoralized and basically quit. But try to remember that you are playing a game with humans who have feelings and want to have fun. It’s not fun to play with a toxic ass, and it’s kind of missing the point.

I just want to clarify, I wasn't coming in to defend whatever person didn't get the joke, I just didn't want to read fucking 4 pages about how someone is joking and someone else didn't get it and then its resolved as "Well, that was a waste of time"

I literally can't be bothered to look up the two of their names, but it's not going to be useful content to me for the two of them to bicker about a fucking joke.

But what did you offer instead? It’s not like you had a countertopic to discuss, so you were just shutting down what was there.

SE question: how hard to we push for claims around here? I did some reading on the forum where Mikul is from, and pushing for early claims seems to be the accepted approach. But I haven't seen that used much here. As I type this I am thinking it's because of the setup... Newbie setup is probably too small to push for lots of claims, esp on d1?

pushing for claims dp1 is inherently scummy, the place where i'm from is longer really active. It converted into another site full of horrible players and inactivity. If you are reading there for information on how to play mafia, I would really advise against it. The only reason someone should claim on dp1 is they are they lynch target and hope that claiming can stop it

Running someone up to l-1 and forcing a claim is SOP. Massclaiming in open games on my day one helps the scum more than the town.

Whoooooo ok there are the comments, readslist next!

[Town looter]

SE question: how hard to we push for claims around here? I did some reading on the forum where Mikul is from, and pushing for early claims seems to be the accepted approach. But I haven't seen that used much here. As I type this I am thinking it's because of the setup... Newbie setup is probably too small to push for lots of claims, esp on d1?

pushing for claims dp1 is inherently scummy, the place where i'm from is longer really active. It converted into another site full of horrible players and inactivity. If you are reading there for information on how to play mafia, I would really advise against it. The only reason someone should claim on dp1 is they are they lynch target and hope that claiming can stop it

Oh for some reason I thought you played on debate.org with Lunatic. That was where I saw a lot of claims. That being said, they play mostly themed.

[Porkens]

I’ll wait for answers, reactions before I post my readslist. Have a good night y’all. Sorry again for not being around earlier.

[Town looter]

@Porkens: SOP = standard operating procedure?? Also your summary reminded me that votato asked me something and I didn't reply...

Did you learn anything from the reaction test? This is good reasoning otherwise. In particular the nervous unvote usually comes from scum and scum have a hard time picking up on jokes. VOTE: arthur

Yep. Got a couple of good interactions from it, that may be useful down the line. Arthur also turned out to be quite defensive.

[VexoOssa]

@porkens I just briefly skimmed all of your quotes for my tag and saw the comment on my original post. I didn't quite understand that rule until I read it there, I should have asked about it idk why I didn't. thank you for pointing it out I'll be sure not to do that in the future.

[votato]

good catchup porkens, although it was very long and im lazy. i did actually read the whole thing though. i think the only thing @me that needs addressing is the "stop infighting and play nice". feel free to not give me towncred for that. pretty LAMIST etc, but it was more of an SE thing and trying to keep the gamestate healthy. id probably do it as scum too.

[Mikul]

SE question: how hard to we push for claims around here? I did some reading on the forum where Mikul is from, and pushing for early claims seems to be the accepted approach. But I haven't seen that used much here. As I type this I am thinking it's because of the setup... Newbie setup is probably too small to push for lots of claims, esp on d1?

pushing for claims dp1 is inherently scummy, the place where i'm from is longer really active. It converted into another site full of horrible players and inactivity. If you are reading there for information on how to play mafia, I would really advise against it. The only reason someone should claim on dp1 is they are they lynch target and hope that claiming can stop it

Oh for some reason I thought you played on debate.org with Lunatic. That was where I saw a lot of claims. That being said, they play mostly themed.

I did, I thought you meant debate art. Debate.org is a pretty good source if you got the right games, debate.art is horrible haha

[Mikul]

I’ll wait for answers, reactions before I post my readslist. Have a good night y’all. Sorry again for not being around earlier.

Going to sleep but will catch up later. I did glance through the first to see if I could respond fast and I can't but the stuff you initially scum read me for was me memeing to get reactions out of people. I've mentioned that a few times. I promise you I'm not voting someone because "the tone of their tone", it was in jest and to try and see if I could get a wagon on me as a reaction test. The rest I'll catch up with tomorrow so I do it justice.

[ArthurConyl]

@Porkens, You've made some nice points in your catchup, I'll address some of them:
You questioned my unvoting of Mikul, because it put him at L-2. Generally I'm not comfortable with putting someone there, especially in RVS. Now I think about it, it probably did look dodgy and possible scummy.

"This isn’t a good defense as scum or town. It’s a minor point you could let go by, but you are picking it as the hill to die on. Just blow it off with a lol and scumhunt elsewhere. Remember that town don’t need to get wrapped up in defending themselves, and scum can corner a defensive towny fairly easily."
That's probably just me, I tend to overdefend everything. Still seems a bit counterintuitive to me that defending myself less looks more townie, then again still getting used to mafiascum.

@town looter/votato/Mikul,
If you're going vote me for being defensive, sure go ahead. I will say that I act that way normally. If you have the time, do a metaread of my first game. The situation is pretty similar - I did something slightly dodgy at the start, I acted defensively and got lynched me on D2. Think about that first. I do have a suspicion one of the guys on my wagon is scum.

[votato]

im not scumreading you for being defensive. its for not being able to tell when people are joking and for hopping of the L-2 wagon. who do you think is scum on your wagon?

[ArthurConyl]

A suspicion, I don't want to start naming. Mainly because I seem to be drawing loads of heat for something minor I did at the start of the game.

@Town looter, At the start you seemed to be scumreading me the most. You were giving reasons for me being anxious etc., and stated several times you wanted to lynch me. Why not just put your vote down and be down with it? Then you seemed to backtrack and say 'oh maybe he's not scum, but I still think he is.' You not being able to put your vote down makes me scumread you.

[votato]

i mean stating a case for why someone else is scum is a good way to get pressure off yourself. plus you should be doing it either way as town.

[ArthurConyl]

My point is I shouldn't have that much pressure on me in the first place.

[brassherald]

Are you just asking people not to vote you? Of so, what's the reasoning behind the request?

[Town looter]

@Town looter, At the start you seemed to be scumreading me the most. You were giving reasons for me being anxious etc., and stated several times you wanted to lynch me. Why not just put your vote down and be down with it? Then you seemed to backtrack and say 'oh maybe he's not scum, but I still think he is.' You not being able to put your vote down makes me scumread you.

I am in no rush to vote. It's still early in the day, and I am still figuring things out - I like to take my time and over think the shit out of every possible scenario. If we were 30 minutes out from deadline and we had no other viable wagons, that would be a different story.

You are also seemingly mistaking my engaging of you in conversation/debate for a genuine scum read - see post 59 for my reads. I am currently trying to figure out if your defensiveness is more likely scum or town.

[ArthurConyl]

Are you just asking people not to vote you? Of so, what's the reasoning behind the request?

I am asking people to consider that my being defensive is how I naturally play, before they decide to vote me.

[brassherald]

Hey, guys, don't vote me if I'm acting like Scum, that's just how I naturally play. Yuck!

VOTE: Arthur

It's L-2.