Newbie 2012 - Game Over

[Micc]

Votecount 1.06

ItalianoVD (2) -

UNOwen, Ydrasse

UNOwen (2) -

TheThirteenthJT, ItalianoVD

Sera Masumi (2) -

GuiltyLion, WaltertheDunce10

TheThirteenthJT (1) -

72offsuit

WaltertheDunce10 (1) -

DoctorPepper

Not Voting (1) -

Sera Masumi

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to Eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-06-28 20:00:00).

DoctorPepper is V/LA until 6/22.

[72offsuit]

Both you and lion seemed sudden for posting

K why do you think lion is derailing the thread for then if scum?

Like I said in my post. I can see it from both perspectives. !townGL reading others as town and being paranoid of me, or !scumGL pushing on threats to !scumagenda. The problem is I;m not really seeing his townread on Uno nor yourself.

@Walter - trying to be a fly on the wall, would you say you would appear as townie to other town players or scummy to other town players?

[72offsuit]

i really like 45 and 48 from 72offsuit, particularly 45? doctorpepper from what i see didn't answer it but i think it might be good to hear doctorpepper explain what they think 72offsuit gains from pushing on them. i presume it would be to discredit doctorpepper, but given that in 39 doctorpepper said they were already finding 72 scummy i'd like to hear the why behind it all.

Hey everyone. I'm coming in witH the two following questions that I would like all to answer please. Mostly for fun since it's so early in the game.

1) Random guess or analysis of what we have so far, take a crack at the scumteam. Who is the mafia team in this game?
2) If you were mafia in this game, who would you like to be your partner, or who would most likely be your partner.

i think that so far, doctorpepper's pinged me because they seemed to jump on the defensive when it came to 72 (@doctorpepper, i'd still like to hear why you thought 72 was scummy), and then you as well. your second question in particular set me off a bit too when i read it earlier, because i don't really get why you think it's a good one despite your explanation? also, i guess that asking number one is a baseline sort of thing that i could see as a scum player asking in an effort to seem helpful/game-solvey. it doesn't seem to have too much weight towards scumhunting behind it right now.

dwelling on the second question, i can only think that later down the line it might help to go back if someone flips and see who they said, but there could be a myriad of reasons why and i don't think that it's a rewarding enough question to think too hard upon.

VOTE: TheThirteenthJT

(REGARDLESS. you for another god-hammer and fun game in 2009!)

other than that:

unowen: why did you put jt as your second scum option? (58)
pii: who do you think is scum, if you think italiano's post is nai? (65)
guiltylion: why do you have the trs that you do? (63)
walter: why did you put doctorpepper as your second scum option? (69)

okay, i think i should be caught up now w the thread and i'll be around a bit to talk!

Just noticed this. Ydrasse you questioned my questions motives and then used some of their answer to formulate follow up questions immediately after.

This goes for everyone, did you all take a look at my explanation for that question, especially if your opposed it. Be The players that did not answer it were Pii, DrPepper, and guilty lion, but I had quite a few others who stated their opposition of it.

I'm doing a reread by the way and going to be pointing out any thing I missed. I also want to out up my full readlist after this.

Your WIFOM questions are NAI, bordering on red-herring-fluff in my opinion.

[72offsuit]

This is a newbie, and with newbie games come the misconception of "scum want to push easy mislynches". The last newbie game I played, I won as scum not by pushing for mislynches but because I intentionally stayed under the radar. I hard defended the day 1 mislynch, knowing full well that it will flip town. The rest of the mislynches I joined but I never drove the wagon, I found flimsy reasons to do it. So Italiano, while I don't think it automatically means you're scummy, it's odd that you're painting it as such because I am pushing for your mislynch.

I’m not familiar with that meta, but I can’t just completely throw out that thought process because I know you didn’t say that, but my point is if that

I mean I agree, being reactionary and painting a target on your back isn't a good way to play scum.

That doesn't necessarily mean that you won't do it.

This is very true and you can’t rule out that possibility. But I promise you that in only my second game I am definitely not be bold enough to make a move like that.

In fact that's weird that you're scum reading people just because they're voting you.

Why? I don’t think it’s weird at all imo. If a player knows that they are townie then to me it’s logical for them to think that the people voting for them is suspicious, especially when the reasoning is somewhat weak. As a matter of fact I think scum would refrain from revenge voting and would be more inclined to either look elsewhere or try to befriend their voter(s). Again I’m not familiar with the site’s meta and how newbie games go, but I assume things are the same and that’s the information I go by.

If either of us were scum, why did we single you out as the mislynch of the day?

If your vote was random and if UNOwen’s vote was random then I wouldn’t have had a problem with it, but because your vote was specifically due to my RVS vote and shortly after UNOwen piggybacking off of that my suspicions went up. Hence the reason why I said you two seemed opportunistic two find a reason for mislynch.

I don't understand what you mean by thumbing your nose in that post Italiano.

And I'm not mirroring your actions. I have my own play and I'm following through on it. If you think it mirrors you it is coincidental. I have not town cleared you either so think I haven't been looking at your posts either. So far I see you as a player who has been out on a bad spot early and is of course paranoid to be lynched day one in both their games. Which is why I can see others saying you are being defensive.

Thank you, I want to clarify my thoughts on this.

Ydrasse while your right the first question isn't really scumhunting, don't we all want to say we solved the game day 1? Bragging rights! That's why I said it's mostly a fun question.

As to the second one, I'm experimenting with RQS and I think it is a valid questions to ask this early in the game. Like I said, I have reasons for it and want to see how well it serves me. And it's not so much relatied to looking back at it down the road. More of a now reason. And directly related to question number 1,

the fun part of question number two for scum would be looking back at engame and having been bold to actually put your partner down here would incredible for them. Bragging rights!

The bolded kind of sounds like a bold scum saying what they're going to do and then doing it, since no one could believe that the scum would be that bold to do it. And then your response sounds a little too gitty. But I just have a vivid imagination and I've been a wolf countless times when playing the wolf variation of this game and I've done bold moves like that before. Anyway, it's probably nothing and I'd rather deal with what's more likely than what's possible.

You know what, I will say I feel he is leaning town as I post this. I normally don't like town reading people because I feel it backfires on me a lot. I just see an excited player early.

What do you mean it backfires on you? How so?

Right now my guess on scum is definetly at minimum one very experience player. (SE or not). How often do newbie games feature two SE scum players?

Interesting. There are 3 SE's in the game (Guilty, Doctor, and 72). Not sure if anyone else has equal or more experience. You've already mentioned you weren't really looking at DoctorPepper anymore, so what are your reads on Guilty and 72?

So far on my questions I don't see answers for
Guiltylion
DrPepper
Italiano
Piisirrational

Just let me know if you have no intentions of answering my questions so I can explain why I did it. Thank you

It seems like the answers would change the deeper into Day 1 we get right, but I don't mind answering it.
If I had to guess the scum team, I'd say UNOwen and piisirrational
If I had to choose a partner I'd have to say 72 or Hobbes (GuiltyLion)

Bolded Italianos statements on boldness. At first in response to a questions he says he is not bold enough to out a target on his back. Then in response to one of my posts he calls me out for potentially being bold scum with my question and claims it's so etching he would be bold enough to do or have done. A clear contradiction.

I'm not seeing the contradiction that you are painting here, nor am I seeing why you are focussing on this when there is so much more meaningful content in the thread.

[72offsuit]

@ Everyone:

1) What is your experience with playing mafia?
2) Do you prefer playing town or scum?
3) What do you think of the Policy lynch of Lynch All Lurkers?

Well I’ve played the wolf game variation on a boxing forum I’ve been a member of since probably 2006, but this would be my second actual mafiascum.net game.

I prefer being town/villager because I like trying to

find

the puzzle piece instead of having it.

Note completely sure of the policy per se, but I’m always of the opinion that if you seem disinterested and don’t contribute you shouldn’t have signed up to play and hence I have no problem lynching.

This bolding from italiano seems deliberate.
I am probably reading too much into it.

I wish catching mafia was this easy.
Hey look, he used bold font type - SCUM!

[72offsuit]

@ TTJT - Maybe repetitive, but can you rehash, succinctly as possible, your main scumreads as of right now.

[72offsuit]

@ Micc - is there a deadline for Sera replacing in?

[Micc]

@ Micc - is there a deadline for Sera replacing in?

I'll give a prod at 36 hours of not posting.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Both you and lion seemed sudden for posting

K why do you think lion is derailing the thread for then if scum?

Like I said in my post. I can see it from both perspectives. !townGL reading others as town and being paranoid of me, or !scumGL pushing on threats to !scumagenda. The problem is I;m not really seeing his townread on Uno nor yourself.

@Walter - trying to be a fly on the wall, would you say you would appear as townie to other town players or scummy to other town players?

From the 2 games iv played, and the one i was town specifically, i was read as scum the entire day and lynched as a town tracker.
I could post a link to it if you would like that?

[TheThirteenthJT]

This is very true and you can’t rule out that possibility. But I promise you that in only my second game I am definitely not be bold enough to make a move like that.


The bolded kind of sounds like a bold scum saying what they're going to do and then doing it, since no one could believe that the scum would be that bold to do it. And then your response sounds a little too gitty. But I just have a vivid imagination and I've been a wolf countless times when playing the wolf variation of this game and I've done bold moves like that before. Anyway, it's probably nothing and I'd rather deal with what's more likely than what's possible.


There

And like I said I'm rereading the day for things I may have missed.

[TheThirteenthJT]

And I can put my full readlist once I'm done. Currently I am on page 7 ok f the day and will finish up tomorrow. Mixing my reads with my reread reads my top two scum reads right now are Unowen and Walterthedunce. Behind them I have 3 weaker scum reads.

[72offsuit]

Both you and lion seemed sudden for posting

K why do you think lion is derailing the thread for then if scum?

Like I said in my post. I can see it from both perspectives. !townGL reading others as town and being paranoid of me, or !scumGL pushing on threats to !scumagenda. The problem is I;m not really seeing his townread on Uno nor yourself.

@Walter - trying to be a fly on the wall, would you say you would appear as townie to other town players or scummy to other town players?

From the 2 games iv played, and the one i was town specifically, i was read as scum the entire day and lynched as a town tracker.
I could post a link to it if you would like that?

Im talking about this current game.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I believe others have me as a 50/50 split, but I think it is a slight town.

[WaltertheDunce10]

But as a neutral flyguy
a bit scummy.

[ItalianoVD]

1 I stated the fun part for both town and mafia. Choosing to signal one over the other is very selective. I wanted to give pii a chance to respond but people keep referencing my questions so here is a short response about then. Yes I am baiting answers, town are more likely to feel relaxed and answer a question like that why scum tend to believe everything is a play and become paranoid and overthink more. A simple answer to that question would not hurt and if you want to grill me on later sure. In a scum mindset you would wifom yourslef. Overthink and possibly slip. That's a quick summary of that.

How fullproof is that? The wiki states that wifom is the dilemma that arises from trying to predict whether someone has made an optimal but expected choice, or a suboptimal but unexpected one.

2 When I town read someone it's hard for me to untown read them later. It can make me stubborn to see others points on why they could be scum.

Is it that way in reverse for you? I mean if you scumread someone is it hard for you to move away from them?

3 Neither is currently a lynch I want to pursue. They seem like strong town players if town. Mislynching one of them could devastate us on subsequent days. I have been trying to meta them when I get chance to see if they have an obvious tells. This dosnst mean to not look in their direction as day one goes on.

So now that you have moved away from DoctorPepper and you said you'd rather not lynch GuiltyLion or 72, who else fits your scenario of there being at least one experienced scum?

[ItalianoVD]

That wifom term still gets me. Can wifom be used as a verb? Like TTJT said; I could wifom myself? Or what exactly is the simplest way to use it, or understand it for that matter.

[ItalianoVD]

Basically, from a town point of view, there are 8 other players, 6 are town and 2 are scum. So if you pick a slot at random, there's 75% odds that it's town. That's where the numbers come from, hopefully that made it more clear? (for scum point of view this doesn't hold up, because 7 of the slots are town and 1 is their buddy, but also they already know who is who).

Got it. makes sense.

What I was also trying to say was, based on these prior odds, a lot of things people think or argue are scum tells really aren't scumtells at all, they're just noise. The vast majority of posts in most games are coming from town. The best scumtells IMO are behaviors/patterns that

don't

come from town, as opposed to things that come from town sometimes and come from scum sometimes, and I try to apply this reasoning to when I'm looking at whether I think a certain post is more likely coming from scum or town.

I see. And those patterns show themselves the longer the game goes on?

[ItalianoVD]

GL and Walter voting on an inactive slot does not bode well with me considering that there are so many active slots in the game

Walter had precedent for voting pii in 133. The doubt was already there.

[ItalianoVD]

Bolded Italianos statements on boldness. At first in response to a questions he says he is not bold enough to out a target on his back. Then in response to one of my posts he calls me out for potentially being bold scum with my question and claims it's so etching he would be bold enough to do or have done. A clear contradiction.

It's interesting to me how this is only mentioned after Ydrasse mentioned it in 222

[ItalianoVD]

@Walter - trying to be a fly on the wall, would you say you would appear as townie to other town players or scummy to other town players?

Is this a question that helps the town? I'm trying to get a better understanding of the questions I should be asking, but this one seems kind of pointless?

[ItalianoVD]

I also got the vibe that he was buddying me in 81

I was buddying you, but only because of this:

He strikes me as a smart/capable player

(his avatar also contributes to this impression )

Calvin & Hobbes man

[ItalianoVD]

Since I scum read him naturally I am looking at situations where he would do, the most obvious one being that he didn't think he was putting a target on his back.

See that's just it, I don't think you scumread me naturally. I think you piggybacked and now are trying to force it to be and not looking elsewhere. Who is my potential partner since you said you don't think it's TTJT anymore? Who are your scumreads at the moment?

Is this from experience or something?
Some of Italiano's recent posts have seemed more town, but this one specifically looks pretty neutral. I'd believe him posting it as either alignment.

Is it enough to keep your vote there? Anything from anyone else stand out to you?

[UNOwen]

UNVOTE: Italiano
VOTE: ThirteenthJT
Italiano has gotten more townie, JT hasn't. In particular I like that Italiano has brought up JT's "guess" that there is a scum within the experienced players, despite not holding active suspicions of any of them. That's something that I had noticed, so it's reassuring that Italiano is looking at those posts in a similar way. It is the same sort of backwards approach from JT that led to him deciding that one of DoctorPepper/myself must be scum.

I agree with 72's point about survivalism and I don't buy JT's claim in 198 that he has a genuine fear of getting quicklynched at this stage of the game. 206 seems overly defensive considering his suspicion of me has been passively held since he entered the game.

Going back further, Walter appeared on JT's initial scum list without justification in 67. I think this is convenient since Walter was the only other player with a serious vote against him at that point. Later this became a town lean in 137. Walter had 3 posts during this period (none of which look telling to me) and I think more significantly 72 dropped the vote against him. And now DoctorPepper has voted Walter it looks like Walter is back on JT's scum list.

Finally 268, 278 and 284 are a strange sequence. If you think the point is worth making why did you immediately back down? And if you think it is probably nothing why bring it up at all?

[UNOwen]

See that's just it, I don't think you scumread me naturally. I think you piggybacked and now are trying to force it to be and not looking elsewhere. Who is my potential partner since you said you don't think it's TTJT anymore? Who are your scumreads at the moment?

I thought the scum team might have been you + GuiltyLion and wanted to keep the pressure on in case I was right. My suspicions of you both have lessened since then, so it's no longer something I'm interested in pursuing.

[TheThirteenthJT]

You guys are ignoring what I'm saying and posting what's convinient. I said I'm rereading for things I've missed. So it should come hand in hand with points I have not made yet. I am taking my time to reread because last game I did scum read one player and basically held my scum read throughout the game and eventually was wrong about them. This game I'm trying to keep an open mind and be more flexible.

To answer Italiano my last game Newbie 2009, I did have a hard time removing a player from my scumread. This probably came from lack of playing. I used to feel more leniant moving people in my scumreads.

Uno you've conviniently ignored everything I've said. I've been waiting for someone else to join my wagon and would like 72 to weigh in on this. In my reread I noticed something interesting in his posts and I want to see if I'm right.

I've answered your question he was mostly a gut read earlier and a bit of POE and potential partners and who I have less scum opinions on. Gut is a justification at times when it's early game. And regardless this was in relation to Drpeppers partner and not as individual scum suspect. My townlean changed because of how I interpreted his posts.and how I was moving away from DrPepper scum. And again you ignored me rereading. During regular play I was focused on answering questions while trying to see other points made by players. I can't catch everything. I am also not solo and have a team I should be listening too. I've noticed I'm lost in some people's reads so clearly I've missed things which is again why I'm going back through everything slower