Mini Normal 2149 | Philosophers | Over

[LicketyQuickety]

I think you’re missing the point. NOBODY townreads NDMath. So why are we just pretending like that slot isn’t an issue? He needs votes.

I TR them. I said their walls are a lot more Townie than Glitch's. Glitch is Scummy, NDmath is Townie.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: NDMath

Fine

GL you may as well move too since we have the same suspicions of NDMath

Bad vote.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think NDMath has been quite lacking compared to my previous town game with him though.

[NorwegianboyEE]

He was much more engaged in Large 227. Here he posts big walls and dissapears.

[Nauci]

I was unsure about Quick halfway through this day but I think I can comfortably give him a townlean/town read now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Quick is town, but that doesn’t mean he’s always right.

[Nauci]

Quick is town, but that doesn’t mean he’s always right.

That went without saying

[Deimos27]

Official Vote Count 1.08

Niccolò Machiavelli (1469-1527) has been called the father of modern political philosophy and science.
The term "Machiavellian" has come to connote political deceit, treachery, crime, and realpolitik.

---

Lynching

With 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

popopopopopopo

(2): Truth, Glitch

NDMath

(2): NorwegianboyEE, Nauci

osuka

(1): GuiltyLion

Nauci

(1): Cat Scratch Fever

GuiltyLion

(1): Looker

LicketyQuickety

(1): osuka

Cat Scratch Fever

(1): popopopopopopo

Glitch

(1): LicketyQuickety

NorwegianboyEE

(1): mavsfan41

No Lynch

(1): Candy Shop

Not Voting

(1): NDMath

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-07-01 18:16:10).

Mod notes:

• Due to a miscalculation regarding 24 hour weekends, I accidentally prodded Candy Shop too early. I am extending their timer to compensate.
  
• Candy Shop¹ has (expired on 2020-06-23 16:00:38) to post before I seek replacement.

[/area]

[NDMath]

(Posting one at a time to make lion happy.)

I'm not understanding the attacks on osuka.

What's there to not understand?

Osuka's posts comprise of the brief fight with Quick, a lot of posts facepalming at Truth which are mostly meaningless, and a very lazy and unsubstantiated push on me.

I scumreads the way that Osuka talks about my posting as "weird" repeatedly without ever explaining weird how—it's exactly the kind of shallow shade throwing without being able to come up with a proper case/narrative that signifies scum pushes vs town ones, especially at an opportune time when others like CSF were FoSing me.

He has repeatedly tried to misconstrue the way I have tried to explain his meta to the game as buddying, even though I've repeatedly told him and everyone else why I said what I did about him and wasn't at buddying. He's not engaging with my push at all or answering my question.

I read osuka's iso, I should have done that in the first place.

[NDMath]

@NDMath you said you were fully caught up, right? Why are you still not voting?

I'm getting too much humour out of people making comments on me not voting.
VOTE: GuiltyLion

[NDMath]

He's misinterpreting norwee's post in a way that's missing what's intended to be a humorous statement and instead interpreting it as norwee scumreading him. I found more of norwee's points valid and their tone townie.

This doesn't feel like honest analysis to me. Let's rewind and look at the Norway post that you say is "intended to be a humorous statement" -

GuiltyLion, can you please come in and obvtown it up soon. Your RVS entrance coupled with disappearing hasn’t exactly filled me to the brin with confidence regarding your slot.

what do you see as the humor in this post? This to me felt like a really bogus shade and I kinda took it personally, my RVS was completely NAI and I 'disappeared' because I had other stuff I wanted to do away from the site. I honestly hate coming to threads and seeing people talk about how scummy I am solely because I'm not available to post at all times, it gets under my skin. So what did I misinterpret here, exactly?

alright, if you ask for it I will indulge!

5. Finally, adding your next post into the mix, it's not really clear to me

at all

why you have any of the reads that you do. Your reads list has most of the players in the game in ambiguous nully tiers with no explanation given as to how they got to be there or where you'd feel comfortable voting. Why am I lower than Candyshop, who is lower than everyone else in the game? Do you think I'm more likely scum? If both myself and Candyshop were at L-1 and you were holding the hammer, you'd vote me over Candy Shop - why? Why are Glitch/Nauci below the four players above them? Would you vote to lynch either of those slots today?

6. None of it is content that is useful to me to help understand your thought process or suggests that you're taking initiative to solve the game for your benefit or anyone else's. It all feels very timid and blendy, like you're just posting a formulaic template of what you think town posts are supposed to look like.

5. The purpose of the readlist was to summarize the catchup and fill in what wasn't said in terms of reads. I'm more willing to hang the further down the list, and I tend to be a more defensive player in that I prefer not having my townreads hung to getting my scumreads hung.
6. I'm not comprehending this paragraph.

5 - I think you kinda missed my point here. I'm not so much questioning the purpose of a reads list in general, I'm more specifically questioning why your tiers exist, they feel arbitrary. Let's just zoom in on Candy Shop for a single example - it's baffling to me that he somehow exists in between Glitch/Nauci and myself. Presumably, all of us are scumreads to you in some form or the other. How and why did you decide to put him in a tier of his own? Why not just have him on my tier, or the tier above? What meaning were you trying to convey by separating the four of us into three tiers like that?

6 - I feel it's kinda clear? None of your post by post comments lead me to understand how you then created that readslist. Largely because of my issues in point 5, I can't trace a clear train of thought from "here's my thoughts as I'm reading the game" -> "here's how my reads got to be where they are".

From context of this post and that they're my most recent games, I'm assuming the games you Iso'd my slot were open777 and largenomal227.
In open 777 I wasn't 'townie' and 'insightful' until day 2. Day 1 I was scumread by many players and my reads were very omgussy.
In largenormal227 I layed low and didn't do much until I lead massclaim. I definitely wasn't very goal oriented in this game.
Also, I would love to point out the use of 'so far here' as opposed to presumably looking at most of the game in the other games.

I'm not sure why this counts as a defense? Aren't you saying basically that as town you don't start trying until later, and you haven't tried yet here? How is that different from a scum game where you don't try?

and I definitely think you were more goal oriented in large normal 227. Here are your second, third, fourth, fifth posts from that game:

Spoiler: NDMath ISO in Large Normal 227

1. Nope.
2. Mininormal 2125
3. Not sure.

From tone I have hoctac and norwee likely town and manatee likely scum.

Not a strong read but,
Nothing of his rings townie, and I particularly see this post coming from scum.

while we r at it, lets try to make communications clean and fluid
the more content we have, the better
if we need to translate every 2 posts, we r looseing possibilities on interactions

dont like this post it screams "im towny"

in a large game like this, picking some VI to quicklynch isn't a bad idea day 1.

While I dont like the idea behind this post im inclined to believe it comes from town for now

hum, that post seems more townie than scummy than me
idk how good my tone reading is though

What's your thoughts on stan1ey?

I like what he is doing so far. He is clarifying stuff and also trying to scumhunt(votato)
He said he was really good at scum though, but I still tl stan1ey

Similar to what I was thinking when I read his iso so far. His answers to questions all seem natural.

The more word talks the more I like his progression.

This is like page 7-8 or whatever of that game and ALL of these posts stand out more to me in terms of trying to sort players, generate content, and share reads to influence than thread than anything you've done here so far. I'll grant you that maybe it's been harder in this game because pages and pages were generated while you weren't around, but tbh if you're town in this game, you'd be far better served just quoting singular posts and giving takes like you did in 227 than doing the giant fluff walls filled with empty statements like you've given us so far.

I interpreted the post as being annoyed they didn't have as many townreads as they would like, and picked you because of prior experience and not having posted as much as other slots.

I scumread candyshop because of his no hang argument and lack of things I see town motivation in. Nauci/glitch I didn't like a few posts from and had them just under null. I strongly scumread you, mainly from your norwee interaction. But basically both of 5/6 are complaints that I didn't attach reasons to my readlist, and I don't see what's inherently wrong with that as it can be clarified and most of the reads weren't very strong.

I meant it more so as I need to first get a grasp on the game.

I guess I don't see/get the difference other than I haven't asked anyone for reads since everyone's given some.

[NDMath]

My new guess is that the talky people are town.
VOTE: NDMath
Still one of the worst slots.

What brought you to "The talky people are probably town."?

[mavsfan41]

@NDMath: what are your views on Truth?

[popopopopopopo]

He was much more engaged in Large 227. Here he posts big walls and dissapears.

Was he tho? I remember he was completely off the radar until he claimed vig

[NorwegianboyEE]

He was much more engaged in Large 227. Here he posts big walls and dissapears.

Was he tho? I remember he was completely off the radar until he claimed vig

You might have a point there, i checked his early game there and it was pretty bare bones until he claimed.

[popopopopopopo]

I read NDs ISO. its definitely noncommittal. He calls guilty scum but doesn't vote him, then when called out does vote him.

I interpreted the post as being annoyed they didn't have as many townreads as they would like, and picked you because of prior experience and not having posted as much as other slots.

This as the reason for voting someone is...not good. And gl has posted a lot i feel.

I scumread candyshop because of his no hang argument and lack of things I see town motivation in.

Why is the nolynch suggestion scummy?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I guess what i’m trying to is... he felt a bit more engaged? ‘Involved’ if you will?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Like, rather than questioning people to evolve his reads or trying to explore prople’s positions. He has taken the role of an observer "explaining" the game. And that change in behaviour always pongs me as sort of scummy. Especially since his play in Large 227 was subtly different.

[popopopopopopo]

popopopopopopo (2): Truth, Glitch
Nauci (2): Cat Scratch Fever, NorwegianboyEE
osuka (2): Nauci, GuiltyLion
GuiltyLion (1): Looker
LicketyQuickety (1): osuka
Cat Scratch Fever (1): popopopopopopo
Glitch (1): LicketyQuickety
NorwegianboyEE (1): mavsfan41
No Lynch (1): Candy Shop

Not Voting (1): NDMath

Let’s consolidate. This spread of votes is ridiculous. Nobod TR’s NDMath right?

What are your thoughts on cat scratch fever. Since I cased she's been MIA and even naked prod dodged. Her early play was quite scummy

[NorwegianboyEE]

@NDMath
Do you agree or disagree with my assessment on difference in play between this one vs Large 227?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I scumread candyshop because of his no hang argument and lack of things I see town motivation in.

Like Popopo said. This is pretty bad and reeks of scum motivation to scumread a slot just because they suggested no lynch. Candy Shop reads to me like a site flaking noob and i doubt scum!him would have the street smart to pretend he thought no lynch was a good idea to safely lurk. Rather it must have been town motivated because he genuinely used his head and thought it was a good thing to do for town. Ergo he’s not scummy.

[NorwegianboyEE]

What are your thoughts on cat scratch fever.

Idk right now. Would like to see more activity from them.

[Looker]

@looker you seem to have stopped interesting with GL and have been suspecting other players since your vote. Has your read on him changed since then, or is he still your top scum read?

My lynch preferences reduced to percentages are:
22% Guilty Lion | 18% popopo | 17% Candy Shop or mavsfan41 | 13% LicketyQuick | 12% NDMath | 8% Glitch | 5% Nauci | 4% Norway | 1% Truth, Osuka, or Cat Scratch

@Truth how has your read on Osuka evolved since you moved your vote off of him?

I still don't like him. My suspects are po, osuka, and maybe Glitch. Do you want me to vote for osuka again?

I want you to choose between Candy Shop and mavsfan41.

I think I'm nearing prod range so this is a prodge

my husband probably broke his foot yesterday so rl is busy right now

Same (with regard to being busy). It sometimes feels like posting on here is a chore.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Mavsfan, i suggest you join a substantial wagon such as NDMath. A lynch on me isn’t going to happen.

[LicketyQuickety]

ND has this kind of strong Town assurance in themselves that is kinda intangible, but I don't see it coming from Scum the vast majority of the time. I also like his attack on GL. I might revisit that read based on what ND said because it seems I missed a few finer points about GL and might have TR GL a bit too early. GL did seem to have a few Townie posts, which is why I was TRing him, but even GL himself says that's not really a good reason to TR him. Then again, this could be ND going after GL as a low effort way to ride out the game till a later date when things become more "serious". Still, I'm not sure that is really a reason to SR him. His points are not bad, he's just not as aggressive at this earlier part in the game that I would like.

In any case, I feel less sure about Osuka being Town. I find the arguments against him seem legit and he's still voting me for who really knows what reason at this point. @NDMath, what do you think of osuka?

Nauci

seems

Town to the naked eye, but I am not seeing anything that makes me think it isn't something Scum could post - especially considering Nauci's high use of meta as a playstyle. Not going to just assume Nauci is Town just because they have meta dove people.

Norway keeps Town telling but I can't say the same about popo. popo seems to be making easy posts and that is not at all what I remember from them in Fungi Mafia. I also want to point out that this sort of "easy playing" seems more associated with his Scum game seen in Mini Normal 2143.

mav still seems pretty solidly Town in my eyes. His questions are good and he gives pretty good analysis when he is here.

Truth remains a gigantic headache that I really don't want to deal with until later.

Candy Shop is... where are they anyways? They probably site flaked but I don't feel like checking atm. I just checked. His last post was on the 19th.

CSF I have as pretty solidly Null.

That leaves Looker. Overall, the little content he has provided seems semi Town motivated, but I wouldn't exactly bet the game on him being Town at this point. So a shade more Town then Scum I would say, but that read can very well change at any point.

And Glitch I hope everyone knows I find their content completely underwhelming and they don't even really bring that great of analysis in the game like mav and don't have the same kind of strong Town presence like ND while looker is barely playing it looks like. Not feeling good about Glitch at all. I wish a person or two would vote Glitch with me because I think that is where the money is rn.

P-Edit: Looker just made a very bizarre post and I really have not the slightest clue what to think of it. I don't even really TR it for it being weird. It's just strange and IDK what on earth he is thinking with those percentage points for who to lynch. Like did he legit do math for this game or is he just Scum making up percentages out of thin air. I really don't know.

@Looker: what are those percentage points based on?