Open 781: JK9++ Game Over!

[Menalque]

Last post from me was @bingle

[Something_Smart]

Oh this is wifom and if you need any other reason to clear me: Lilith looked to me for advice when we were scum together and she probably would've done it here too if we were partners. If you think I let her claim vengeful

This logic should apply to most people, right? Like I certainly would have told her vengeful was a bad claim, I think anyone she asked would, so she presumably did it without asking first.

[Menalque]

Like honestly, could datisi be scum? Potentially and I entered today saying it

But PP’s push is fucking awful, and I almost feel like he just wants to end it and that’s why he’s making a push this bad. Like he subconsciously wants to be caught for it, I had a similar feeling with ducky not too long ago

But it comes down to — there are good reasons for /literally everyone to be town apart from datisi and PP and datisi has a somewhat mechanical clear on her PLUS she may not have done a lot but she also hasn’t made any awful pushes/

[MariaR]

Stop using good logic against my points S_S?!?!?! You're supposed to let me just be correct?!

[Datisi]

my first thought when she flipped was that she was hardbussed because obviously she was getting lynched after claiming vengeful, but seeing fb is scum it's probably that she didn't ask...

[Bingle]

Hmm.

Hmmm.

[Something_Smart]

But it comes down to — there are good reasons for /literally everyone to be town apart from datisi and PP and datisi has a somewhat mechanical clear on her PLUS she may not have done a lot but she also hasn’t made any awful pushes/

Was your target on Datisi N1 or N2?

[Bingle]

who's the only person on this playerlist that consistently calls me she?

Bingle?

I legitimately thought you used she until someone brought it up ITT.

[Menalque]

But it comes down to — there are good reasons for /literally everyone to be town apart from datisi and PP and datisi has a somewhat mechanical clear on her PLUS she may not have done a lot but she also hasn’t made any awful pushes/

Was your target on Datisi N1 or N2?

Datisi N1, Bingle N2

[Datisi]

huh, i thought you called me he in the brass n shrapnel game, but i may be misremembering

i can include you in my highkey insane solve if you want.

[Bingle]

Mena, I just don't fucking know rn.

I need to actually sit down and look at the setup and the thread if I want to be useful and I'm just not capable of that tonight.

I think I'm comfortable saying it's guaranteed to be 3 PRs? Like... SK would be baffling. It might actually be worth it to massclaim, but I don't want to do that because I can't work through the implications of outing you/Blake roles, etc. We may well be in mech autowin, in which case it might actually be best to no lynch here? I dunno. Give me until tomorrow night and I'll actually put some real effort in.

[Almost50]

Finally, do you really think I shoot PB on N1 over everyone else??

SKITTER SHOT PB

Keep up

The rest is sort of compelling but also you were the first to deflect away (or like encouraging people not to) and your vote history also isn’t great in a similar way to datisi’s not being great

Also tbh I have no idea who let’s lilith claim vengeful there and I kind of think the answer is either “no-one” or “maybe Blake or bingle or S_S”

1- True. skitter did shoot PB. The question is WHO did scum!me shoot (and get blocked)? The follow up question is why did I not shoot then again? And if I thought they were a Hider why not shoot someone else? Why would I EVER shoot skitter, who would have probably lynched/vig'd the whole damn roster over me? (Hint: "to make this argument" is never a good reason here. I stand to benefit A LOT more by keeping her alive to shoot people (trim the living numbers) AND still have her as a suspect for being the SK.

2- I won't argue my "voting history". I restarted/reignited lillith's lynch, and that is something I NEVER do to a scum p. Not EVER.

3- "No one" is an acceptable answer, but it instantly clears many players because we are known to be "scum masterminds" meaning we assume leadership in the scum team (unless someone else does). To be more clear i would happily let Bingle be the leader if I was scum with him (obviously that's not the case here), but in the case of FB/lillith I'd imagine neither would object to me taking over the leadership spot.

4- You yourself brought up a game (that I honestly don't remember) in which I supposedly bus'd you

for the win

. This alone proves (a) I do tend to assume leadership or at least be a loud voice in the scum PT, and (b) bus'ing is an art for me. I don't do it unless it's necessary and will bring me closer to the win. Now what did I gain from bus'ing lillith AND keepind FB in my limited lynch pool? You do know that I TR PP despite you and Bingle going the other way. Why did I not keep PP in the "nulls" at the very worst, and instead decided to bus both my partners so early?

5- Vengeful NEVER comes from Bingle. He knows how to pick a fake claim. He also knows how to read the game and push it in the direction he wants it to go, so wouldn't have lost BOTH his teammates in the same cycle.

I could have accepted your "half SR" on me as a way to actually protect me, except I've already outed myself as a VT (didn't mean to, btw) and we know now that we have 2-3 living PRs, so I'd be shocked to be the NK over anyone else.

[Almost50]

i've been sus of PP since Day 1 so i kinda see that. your logic Makes Sense i guess just as much as everyone else's Makes Sense - the problem is that people are reaching different conclusions and calling for different heads.

I don't actually get what it is, but something's wrong about you capitalizing "Make Sense" twice there.

[Almost50]

V/LA until further notice. The next heat wave is here and it doesn't look like it's going away anytime soon.

Does this mean you're wearing less clothes? Asking for a friend.

[Datisi]

i've been sus of PP since Day 1 so i kinda see that. your logic Makes Sense i guess just as much as everyone else's Makes Sense - the problem is that people are reaching different conclusions and calling for different heads.

I don't actually get what it is, but something's wrong about you capitalizing "Make Sense" twice there.

intonation/air quotes. i understand that while nobody seems to be making extremely wrong claims/logic, conclusions are different, so obviously can't all be right.

[Almost50]

this is the first time anyone in the game used third-person pronous to refer to me. fb used she. why? we don't talk outside of games, and the only time we played together was on the flying scumsman where everyone was consistently calling me he.

so again why? my thought was that in pregame, when he was talking with his scumbuddies, they referred to me as she and it stuck with him for the beginning of the game. lilith was calling me he, so it isn't her.

who's the only person on this playerlist that consistently calls me she?

Sir, I am honoured to extend this invitation for you to join us in our "Most Insane Players on MS Society" (MIPoMSS). It is collectively our opinion that you would make a WONDERFUL addition to our moto: Think bizarrely outside the box

[Almost50]

I think this is where Listmods Unite.

Male me one, because I really want to be in this alliance.

[Almost50]

I am a PR

I have results suggesting that datisi and bingle may not be scum although it’s not conclusive, it’s more strongly indicative of bingle!notscum than it is for datisi

This is a hard puzzle for me to solve.

Tracker doesn't get "inconclusive" results. You either had the, visiting someone, went nowhere, or no result.
Doctor doesn't even get such results at all.
JK doesn't get "someone not scum" unless there's exactly one Scum alive, which wasn't the case last night (or the night before)
Hider probably gets the "not scum" but doesn't explain the Binge more so than Datisi bit
Commuter (although very unlikey) doesn't give you such info
GS gives you either has a gun ir doesn't have a gun (or no result) and I don't see how these could be "maybe, but maybe not"
Role Cop? Well, a Vanilla result on someone = not groupscum, while if you do get a different role then you know

for sure

So, what is it you're trying to say/do?

[Almost50]

If people don’t think that any of (Maria, Blake, A50) are scum then I suggest we lynch through PP->datisi->S_S to end the game

Any objections or anyone who doubts I’m a PR?

I just said I don't get your post, so -since you already outed- let it be a full claim with exact role and results.

[Almost50]

If I go first, fine.

Since we've come to the stage of the game where everybody outs EVERYTHING, I just wanted to say I thought YOU were a PR. I specifically thought you were either a Doctor who protected me N1 (would explain the missing Mafia kill) or a Hider who had hid behind me (and obviously didn't die).

Your quoted phrase suggests you're a VT though. Doesn't change the read I have on you, but it makes me slightly more inclined to buy that Menalque is a PR (but still don't get how he got his deductions about his results). I've had him as a potential Gunsmith/Role Cop/Tracker/Jaikeeper since D1.

[Almost50]

I bet you didn’t get my crumb thought datisi

Would be nice if you outed it by the time I am all caught up

[Bingle]

This is a hard puzzle for me to solve.

He's either crumbing a tracker or JK. If tracker, then MafJOAT me would have had to ninja kill the claimed PR with evidence of a protective, not rb'd a claimed PR with evidence of a protective, or holster and not Strongman with evidence of a protective and a claimed vig who scumread me. Datisi is less conclusive because ninja kill N1 makes perfect sense with no setup knowledge.

If JK, it's even less conclusive because ambiguity of roleblock/protect, but the JOAT is more likely to perform the kill than a goon which makes it slightly clearing.



Oh, also, I had a chance to think a bit more about mechanics. If anyone is a PR outside of Mena/Blake they should claim that they are a PR, since that's functionally a CC if there's no SK. I am not. I am also willing to gamble the game on there not being an SK at this point, especially when if there is an SK that should become apparent by tomorrow at the latest.

Mena/Blake should not claim their actual role, but should pseudoclaim targets for JK so that they don't have clears disappear. Blake should claim who she would have investigated each night if she was an inno/guilty style PR. They should 100% target for scum if they're a JK.

(i.e. if I'm a JK I will target Maria tonight) Obviously if one is a doc they will target the other.

We should not no lynch, as we're not unlikely to hit an extra mislynch as things stand.

It is not impossible we're in autowin, but not massclaiming shouldn't be able to take us out of it if we follow those prescribed guidelines.

[Almost50]

pedit: But Peng I'm MafiaR I can fake anything in any game so clearly if I am not cleared I can still be scum!!!

Amen to that

[Bingle]

Oh, someone should ask if JK targetting the SMan making the kill would stop the kill. It *should* but I don't want to assume and be bitten.

[Almost50]

One more page to go, and it's come down to:

Spoiler:

Or

Spoiler: