Mini Normal 2146: Cute Pets Game Over, Town wins

[Hiraki]

^Actually don't - I don't want to anymore. Vote me if you really want, I can't quote it. Almost thought about doing it.

[notscience]

I guess we just wait for the catchup

[PranaDevil]

So... reading this morning I see:

Hoopla lying about things again.
notscience lying about my lynch being "put off since day 1"
and Hiraki admitting they cannot find a quote, because it doesn't exist.

But I'm still going to answer you Hiraki, because I'm not allowing lying to control the town.

The exact events were:

notscience said Prana (THAT'S ME) would be watching Agar, in thread. THAT made the entire thing WIFOM.

At NO POINT EVER did I say "Agar will be protected by someone else", nowhere, ever, you cannot find it. Go do so now. Failed? Of course you have, because the only way to claim that is to twist my words.

I DID, however, state the scum would likely assume I would be on Agar, and so went for the next most confirmed town, Una. Because they weren't killing me while they feel they can make me be an easy mislynch.

Scum is 100% on my wagon right now. This much we know is true.

We have, I would say, two scum left, and considering all three of the scummiest players here are on my wagon, it's blindingly obvious that they are there. it's just working out which are the scum, and which are tunnelling because they don't like the thought that they are wrong.

Also, notscience, no, Hoopla has very much been the one pushing to get the PRs revealed on Day 1. She even admitted that was what she was doing. Hiding in plain site. Well... failing to hide, and everyone seemingly giving her a free pass because... fuck knows.

[UnaBombaH]

me and unabombah are the inno-investigations of EmpFlippynips

Empreror Flippynips has claimed Combined Fruit Vendor Gunsmith (not with those words exactly maybe?), where he sends his target a fruit, and also sees if they have a gun or not.
I got fruit N1, and immediately claimed it.
Flippy confirmed I do not have a gun.
Battle Mage got the fruit N2, and Flippy confirmed they do not have a gun either.

PranaDevil has claimed Watcher, and claims to have watched Flippy N1 - didn't see anyone.
Claims to have watched me N2 - didn't see anyone.

AGar claimed to have roleblocked Klick N1, and since there was no kill, we lynched Klick.
Got a red flip. At this point it was openly said that our claimed Watcher should watch AGar N2 as to make sure scum couldn't freely kill our roleblocker.
This was obviously before the redflip, but with the assumption that once we get a redflip, AGar is the most valuable target for scum to neutralize and an actual conf.town to us.

Hence why I for one don't want to not lynch Prana today.
Last night was their chance to more or less prove their role and potentially get a guilty for us, but they didn't.
They called it WIFOM by notscience who openly tried to leash Prana onto AGar.
They still insist they didn't make a mistake, and act as if their play wasn't supremely sub-optimal for town.

[UnaBombaH]

No. No it isn't. The case on me is "That's a claimed Watcher, lynch them". That's the entirety of it.

notscience turned my role into a WIFOM hellhole that allowed him to push my lynch regardless.

Prana, I absolutely do not want this to be a heated argument, but you are objectively WRONG here.
AGar was the only thing that mattered.
NO MATTER WHO SAID WHAT FOR "WIFOM".
AGar had soft-guiltied a scum that we lynched, and who indeed flipped red.
AT THAT POINT YOU WATCH THEM. NO IFS OR BUTS.

If they had killed me?
Fine, you'd likely see no one visiting AGar, and I'm dead. SO WHAT?
AGar would've still gotten one more chance to roleblock a killer.
Not a likely shot to land, I know, but still a higher real estate than me being soft-inno'd at that point.
And the same goes for every single one of the rest of us.
Had scum shot Flippy, or...hmmmm...YOU(??) as the claimed Watcher, the end result would've still been the same.
And to make matters worse, scum DID do the one thing they were obviously gonna do, and you weren't there to see it.
So do not try and defend your actions here.

[UnaBombaH]

I DID, however, state the scum would likely assume I would be on Agar, and so went for the next most confirmed town, Una. Because they weren't killing me while they feel they can make me be an easy mislynch.

Again, this already is false thinking.
If you are really town, you'd KNOW that scum KNOW you are town, and therefore could even accidentally provide town with a guilty.
Especially since their next few targets are more or less spelled out for us anyway.
You talking about how they'd keep you around for a mislynch is flawed, since they'd keep you around and risk being guiltied the next night anyway.

And therefore I was never their 2nd-best target after AGar.
It was you.
I know, you can't watch yourself and even less report about it, but that should've made you NOT target the 3rd target in me/Flippy, but instead AGAIN, went with the obvious #1 in AGar.

End of discussion.

[UnaBombaH]

theres also an argument for giving them both another night to see what happens. its not like tomorrow is lylo if we mislynch.

Then the only lynch I'd "accept" for today is on notscience.
But since Prana is on them, I'm not even seriously considering it.

And assume we mislynch today.
Tomorrow you'll wake up to me being dead, and Prana with another non-result.
Or in the unlikely scenario where Prana is town, you'd wake up to Battle Mage dead, and Prana with another non-result.
So you'd end up lynching them tomorrow anyway.
Scum seem to have a peculiar skill in targeting someone other than who Prana watches.....

There you'd still have the off-chance of Flippy+BattleMage or Flippy+Una depending on which of them is still alive.
The only unconfirmed but almost obvious townie is Hiraki at that point.
Hoopla is considered lynch-worthy by quite a few (I still think they are silly, but town)
Micc is the new Gypyx who I deemed would be the LyLo-mislynch target for scum to use (although I do think having Micc there now should help us a lot)
I think notscience is easily still on the scummier side of null, and should definitely be the lynch tomorrow if Prana ends up flipping town.

So if we do not lynch Prana today, the pressure and risk are going to be way higher for tomorrow, with the assumed town-cohesion being quite low as well.

[PranaDevil]

No. No it isn't. The case on me is "That's a claimed Watcher, lynch them". That's the entirety of it.

notscience turned my role into a WIFOM hellhole that allowed him to push my lynch regardless.

Prana, I absolutely do not want this to be a heated argument, but you are objectively WRONG here.
AGar was the only thing that mattered.
NO MATTER WHO SAID WHAT FOR "WIFOM".
AGar had soft-guiltied a scum that we lynched, and who indeed flipped red.
AT THAT POINT YOU WATCH THEM. NO IFS OR BUTS.

If they had killed me?
Fine, you'd likely see no one visiting AGar, and I'm dead. SO WHAT?
AGar would've still gotten one more chance to roleblock a killer.
Not a likely shot to land, I know, but still a higher real estate than me being soft-inno'd at that point.
And the same goes for every single one of the rest of us.
Had scum shot Flippy, or...hmmmm...YOU(??) as the claimed Watcher, the end result would've still been the same.
And to make matters worse, scum DID do the one thing they were obviously gonna do, and you weren't there to see it.
So do not try and defend your actions here.

Whatever your view on it, it's merely that, opinion.

Maybe watching Agar may have been better, but right now, we have what we have.

You are pushing to lynch a fucking claimed PR, with no counter claim, despite evidence I AM what I claim to be, and the fact we have people like Hoopla who spent D1 trying to out PRs.

Seriously, you can bitch and whine all you want about "what I believe you should have done", but that does not help town here, and lynching a town PR is a fucking stupid idea.

I DID, however, state the scum would likely assume I would be on Agar, and so went for the next most confirmed town, Una. Because they weren't killing me while they feel they can make me be an easy mislynch.

Again, this already is false thinking.
If you are really town, you'd KNOW that scum KNOW you are town, and therefore could even accidentally provide town with a guilty.
Especially since their next few targets are more or less spelled out for us anyway.
You talking about how they'd keep you around for a mislynch is flawed, since they'd keep you around and risk being guiltied the next night anyway.

And therefore I was never their 2nd-best target after AGar.
It was you.
I know, you can't watch yourself and even less report about it, but that should've made you NOT target the 3rd target in me/Flippy, but instead AGAIN, went with the obvious #1 in AGar.

End of discussion.

Really? "I" am their next best target? With at least 2 town clearly willing to piss the game up the wall by lynching me, possibly three by the looks of it?

At this position, if I catch scum, you numpties would tell me I'm clearly lying and lynch me first anyway. Scum also know this.

theres also an argument for giving them both another night to see what happens. its not like tomorrow is lylo if we mislynch.

Then the only lynch I'd "accept" for today is on notscience.
But since Prana is on them, I'm not even seriously considering it.

And assume we mislynch today.
Tomorrow you'll wake up to me being dead, and Prana with another non-result.
Or in the unlikely scenario where Prana is town, you'd wake up to Battle Mage dead, and Prana with another non-result.
So you'd end up lynching them tomorrow anyway.
Scum seem to have a peculiar skill in targeting someone other than who Prana watches.....

That's an interesting way of saying "Prana targeted the other claimed PR Night 1, and scum WIFOM'd and went elsewhere, and then Prana guessed they would do the same night 2".

The only unconfirmed but almost obvious townie is Hiraki at that point.

That is not a confirmed town slot, not the way they are twisting and lying about shit, that's one of the three scummy slots. You are just giving them a free pass because they are focused on me. Step back, assume I'm town (because.. y'know, I fucking am), and re-read their posts today... that's not town posting.

Hoopla is considered lynch-worthy by quite a few (I still think they are silly, but town)

Obv-scum is obvious I'd say. Very fucking obvious. No other reason to try and out PRs day 1.

Micc is the new Gypyx who I deemed would be the LyLo-mislynch target for scum to use (although I do think having Micc there now should help us a lot)

Fuck knows, I'm not sure about them being useful for town though as they're suspecting me. Gypyx was merely a dumbass.

I think notscience is easily still on the scummier side of null, and should definitely be the lynch tomorrow if Prana ends up flipping town.

If it's between me and notscience, and considering notscience is in the trio of scum possibilities with Hiraki and Hoopla. I'll happily switch to lynch them too, even though Hoopla is the most obvious.

So if we do not lynch Prana today, the pressure and risk are going to be way higher for tomorrow, with the assumed town-cohesion being quite low as well.

And when you do lynch me today, you piss a PR up the wall, deliberately and knowingly, and so when we fail as town, we know where to point the finger. The tunnelling town who allowed themselves to be steered by scum.

Fuck sake. This town has no fucking chance.

[UnaBombaH]

You are pushing to lynch a fucking claimed PR, with no counter claim, despite evidence I AM what I claim to be, and the fact we have people like Hoopla who spent D1 trying to out PRs.

You have to non-results.
No evidence whatsoever.

[UnaBombaH]

Really? "I" am their next best target? With at least 2 town clearly willing to piss the game up the wall by lynching me, possibly three by the looks of it?

At this position, if I catch scum, you numpties would tell me I'm clearly lying and lynch me first anyway. Scum also know this.

BUT WE WOULD CATCH SCUM.
If you end up being town here, I am very disappointed in how you view this matter.

[UnaBombaH]

That is not a confirmed town slot, not the way they are twisting and lying about shit, that's one of the three scummy slots. You are just giving them a free pass because they are focused on me. Step back, assume I'm town (because.. y'know, I fucking am), and re-read their posts today... that's not town posting.

No, you go check my ISO.
I've had them as town for a lot longer than I've had you as scum.
And if that wasn't apparent before, at least now I have said it.

[UnaBombaH]

And when you do lynch me today, you piss a PR up the wall, deliberately and knowingly, and so when we fail as town, we know where to point the finger. The tunnelling town who allowed themselves to be steered by scum.

I'm not steered by scum, so unless you call me scum...? Town isn't "steered" by scum into lynching you.
Your own actions are leading us down this path.

Had you targeted AGar as you obviously should've, and had you even claimed a "no result" (=blocked), even then I wouldn't have been all over you today.
Because at least then, your actions would've been reasonable.
As things are now, your actions fit way too well into what scum would do with your role.

[UnaBombaH]

And ffs.
Even if you weren't a Watcher, but still scum.
Your actions aren't as impressive as you make them sound.

N1 - you claimed no one targeted Flippy.
What role could've/would've targeted Flippy at that point?
He was a claimed PR, so no town-blockers obv.
Potentially a Watcher - but you already knew there was no counterclaim to yours - so not that either.
I could've only been a town!protective, or a straight-up Cop - EITHER OF WHICH you would've been happy to out if you had shitty luck.
Furthermore - scum would've known that there had been no protective on Flippy N1 if they tried to kill someone else, and wake up to a no-kill.

Your N1 action-claim would've been almost a freebie to scum anyway.

And your N2 action?
Scum now had the information where the protective was in AGar, and they already knew I had gotten a fruit.
Therefore targeting me became the "freebie" action to claim. Why would anyone target me N2?

[notscience]

Una you aren’t going to convince him he’s scum he either knows it or knows you’re wrong you need to be spending that effort trying to Lynch him. You yourself said you would be disappointed in how he played it if he flipped town given your knowledge which should tell you all you need to know- he’s likely not town.

[Hiraki]

I am really starting to miss the Jesus wept stuff. Can we bring that back?

[brassherald]

VoteCount 3.06

PranaDevil (4):

bob3141, notscience, Hiraki, Hoopla

Hoopla (2):

Pranadevil, Battle Mage

Not Voting (4):

Emperor flippyNips, UnaBombaH, CooLDoG, Micc

Still looking for a CooLDoG replacement
Prodding bob3141
With 10 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch
Day 3 ends in (expired on 2020-07-06 07:30:00)

[/area]

[bob3141]

will get caught up later today

[bob3141]

yeah I get the impression that is a counterwagon for the sake of a counterwagon.

can you give your thoughts on Flippy? as much as my initial take aligns with where you guys going, I'm looking at Flippy and seeing a lot of similarities to prana, just with a slightly more believable claim. Run up and claimed power D1, still getting results despite being claimed, not pushing a strong wagon today. am I wrong to be a little suspicious there?

My two cents

Also after klicks flip it doesnt look likely. I very much get the sense that it couldnt be s/s. If you look at the read list of his I posted it doesnt look like scum trying to push against his buddy. Looks liek a real try at pushing flipy

[UnaBombaH]

If Prana flips scum, I honestly think the CoolDoG-slot is our last one remaining.
If Prana flips green, I want notscience powerlynched tomorrow, and I might've been wrong about my Hoopla-read.
Or it's still just the CoolDog-slot.

[PranaDevil]

And when you do lynch me today, you piss a PR up the wall, deliberately and knowingly, and so when we fail as town, we know where to point the finger. The tunnelling town who allowed themselves to be steered by scum.

I'm not steered by scum, so unless you call me scum...? Town isn't "steered" by scum into lynching you.
Your own actions are leading us down this path.

You are town, being steered by scum.

Hiraki, Hoopla, and notscience. One of those, at a bare minimum, is scum. You are following them. You are being steered by scum.

Had you targeted AGar as you obviously should've, and had you even claimed a "no result" (=blocked), even then I wouldn't have been all over you today.
Because at least then, your actions would've been reasonable.
As things are now, your actions fit way too well into what scum would do with your role.

So... had my slot been scum, and lied about being blocked, you would believe it more? Interesting.

So... what you are saying, is scum-Prana, who would have lied about what happened, is more believable than town-Prana...

Do you not think scum WOULD have lied about being blocked? Do you not think the fact I'm willing to be completely fucking honest about things count for anything?

Scum 100% would have lied about who they checked, you're right. So, tell me why scum-Prana announces they protected you. I'll wait.

[UnaBombaH]

You are town, being steered by scum.

Hiraki, Hoopla, and notscience. One of those, at a bare minimum, is scum. You are following them. You are being steered by scum.

I. Am. Not. Being. Steered.
If none of them were on you today, I'd still be on you for your claimed actions, and the fact that I had you pegged as scum D1.
Go check if you don't remember.

[PranaDevil]

And ffs.
Even if you weren't a Watcher, but still scum.
Your actions aren't as impressive as you make them sound.

N1 - you claimed no one targeted Flippy.
What role could've/would've targeted Flippy at that point?
He was a claimed PR, so no town-blockers obv.
Potentially a Watcher - but you already knew there was no counterclaim to yours - so not that either.
I could've only been a town!protective, or a straight-up Cop - EITHER OF WHICH you would've been happy to out if you had shitty luck.
Furthermore - scum would've known that there had been no protective on Flippy N1 if they tried to kill someone else, and wake up to a no-kill.

First, I announced it immediately, so made damned certain nobody could claim I waited to see what happened and shit in response.
Secondly, any other protective roles would target him, and scum would likely target a claimed PR. So it was entirely possible I would have caught scum. Maybe I would have caught scum N1, nobody fucking knows, so anyone trying to complain that I "didn't catch scum" when there was no night kill is being a fucking idiot at the very least.
Third, that's enough putting words in my mouth. I was NOT the one outing any PRs, nor have I done anything of the sort. Hoopla has been doing that, not me. If I had caught a PR there, I'd have merely said I saw "someone" visiting you, and thus I would have a likely town role to protect in another way too, as I would have been a witness to them if they revealed later.

Which is a very good position for a Watcher.

You know... not outing people who visit other people when you don't wish to fuck over town.

Your N1 action-claim would've been almost a freebie to scum anyway.

And your N2 action?
Scum now had the information where the protective was in AGar, and they already knew I had gotten a fruit.
Therefore targeting me became the "freebie" action to claim. Why would anyone target me N2?

This is a massive pile of bollocks, and if you remove your tunnel vision glasses, you would see as much.

Seriously, you are literally only tunnelling today, and you're pissing into the wind, and you're wearing slippers.

You refuse to step back and pause for a minute. You know, like you did last game. Like you pissed that one up the wall in too because you tunnelled on me and afterwards went "wait, maybe Prana is town?" After it was too late. You are doing exactly the same here, and it's getting tiring.

So fuck it, either lynch me and let's piss the game up the wall, or you can actually play well this go around and we can actually hit some scum.

[UnaBombaH]

So, tell me why scum-Prana announces they protected you. I'll wait.

Well, I'm not sure where you suddenly got the "protect" from..?

Any and either way - I'm done having this discussion with you.
You haven't budged at all, or tried to make an actually reasonable argument for why you are town here.
Your only shield is your claim, and it's full of holes and made of paper.

[UnaBombaH]

The only reason I'm not voting Prana yet is because I don't want them to selfvote for the hammer before we habe a replacement for CoolDoG.
But I am done replying to them now.

[Battle Mage]

Prana - can you at least acknowledge now that I'm the best player?