Mini Normal 2148 (Post Game)

[stungun0404]

So deadline is at 9:18 PM EST/8:18 PM CST, we need to keep an eye out for that and vote someone out to avoid a no lynch which will occur if we do not reach a majority.

[Dunnstral]

Why cant scum take the middle road route (which is realtively normal scum play) and only be active enough to balance influencing the gamestate and not over commiting? Especially if dunn was town and slash or GC/pork was a TvT which plays into their agenda.

[Porkens]

Can switch to tato if it comes to that

[stungun0404]

Why cant scum take the middle road route (which is realtively normal scum play) and only be active enough to balance influencing the gamestate and not over commiting? Especially if dunn was town and slash or GC/pork was a TvT which plays into their agenda.

Yeah, tbh I think he is coming from a "less likely" perspective here, which again suggests he is not town but rather scum. Town favors what is more probable, and usually does not throw out what is less possible, but HK has done so quite a few times this day phase.

Also, he came up with a reason to support Gera being scummy. He does not vote gera, but actually ends up drawing attention to all three of the counterwagons that are voting him.

Ding ding ding: they could be scum together.

[HK 50]

Why cant scum take the middle road route (which is realtively normal scum play) and only be active enough to balance influencing the gamestate and not over commiting? Especially if dunn was town and slash or GC/pork was a TvT which plays into their agenda.

Yeah, tbh I think he is coming from a "less likely" perspective here, which again suggests he is not town but rather scum. Town favors what is more probable, and usually does not throw out what is less possible, but HK has done so quite a few times this day phase.

Also, he came up with a reason to support Gera being scummy. He does not vote gera, but actually ends up drawing attention to all three of the counterwagons that are voting him.

Ding ding ding: they could be scum together.

How is my point that you are ignoring a playstyle typically employed by scum "unlikely"? I'm literally asking why cant scum sit back if one of those cases was leading to a mislynch? You didnt actually address the point.

Does it not concern you that three counter wagons, including one that you have a potential scum read on all hopped to germ.? Yes I'm debating it and reading the counterwagons before committing to a wagon.

[Dunnstral]

I'm not really sold on HK 50 being scum due to more recent posting that came after my initial vote
There's a lot of people I don't think are scum - Malakittens isn't one of them. And yes, I'll settle on Geraitm too

[Dunnstral]

Does it not concern you that three counter wagons, including one that you have a potential scum read on all hopped to germ.?

It doesn't matter

[stungun0404]

I mean, passivity makes more sense than that based off the gamefeel so far, firstly. Second of all, you are assuming GC and pork is T vs. T and that their agenda fits that description which I could not possibly disagree with more (I think personally it is highly unlikely they are T vs. T based off their early pushes of each other, although others can debate that too). Third of all, you are supporting a point that still speaks to scum taking on a certain degree of passivity, which actually ends up supporting my point in a way (lol).

And not really, I think Dunn is likely town, and Vot I am coming around on. Porkens, meh, maybe/maybe not. Does not worry me too much, and it's because of how anti-town some of gera's post have come off to me. If he is playing town that is to say that I think he is playing a really bad game FMPOV, which makes it easier to assume he is scum because in that case he is not playing a bad game so far FMPOV.

Worst case scenario with this vote IMO, we knock out someone who although town hasn't contributed anything to helping us lynch this far. In fact, they have made it that much harder, and thus it makes sense that they are scum. We also get rid of someone who has done more anti-town things than town things, meaning we rid this game of a distraction.

[HK 50]

I can actually follow what lead them to vote there looking into their ISOs. The fact that votato and Dunn dont want to vote eachother makes me feel better on the opportunistic hop on point since I dont see them as scum buddies.

Pedit: give me a moment to read that

[stungun0404]

Updated votes

Geraintm (5): stungun0404, bob3141, votato, Porkens, Dunnstral
Dunnstral (2): DoctorPepper, Malakittens
votato (2): farside22, notscience
notscience (1): geraintm
Not voting: HK50

Since we have 3 hours 39 minutes left in the day phase, we're at a point where it is going to be difficult to vote out anyone except Geraintm, so we might as well consolidate there, even if we want to wait a little longer as it looks like the only feasible place we could end up. We would need 5 more votes in any other direction to secure a lynch there, which would make for a really risky last-second lynch.

[HK 50]

I mean, passivity makes more sense than that based off the gamefeel so far, firstly. Second of all, you are assuming GC and pork is T vs. T and that their agenda fits that description which I could not possibly disagree with more (I think personally it is highly unlikely they are T vs. T based off their early pushes of each other, although others can debate that too). Third of all, you are supporting a point that still speaks to scum taking on a certain degree of passivity, which actually ends up supporting my point in a way (lol).

And not really, I think Dunn is likely town, and Vot I am coming around on. Porkens, meh, maybe/maybe not. Does not worry me too much, and it's because of how anti-town some of gera's post have come off to me. If he is playing town that is to say that I think he is playing a really bad game FMPOV, which makes it easier to assume he is scum because in that case he is not playing a bad game so far FMPOV.

Worst case scenario with this vote IMO, we knock out someone who although town hasn't contributed anything to helping us lynch this far. In fact, they have made it that much harder, and thus it makes sense that they are scum. We also get rid of someone who has done more anti-town things than town things, meaning we rid this game of a distraction.

And you are assuming that it's a T v S and

their partners are not active to is try and save their buddy

. I think a point later that illustrates my point more is your take on NS regarding votato a page ago. Defending one player to push another without actually consolidating onto one target.

I'm not saying mafia "can never be passive". I'm implying that there are typically reasons relating to the game state to why mafia would be inactive vs active. One of this is to just muddy the game phase into a inactive lurkfest like you suggested (even though that does require some active manipulation usually). However, we like you said have had multiple instances where we cannot secure one lynch. Now that can be because of inactiveness/lack of clout from scum, but it can also be simply that scum doesnt want particular lynches for whatever reason (such as not wanting to lynch a buddy). I don't think we are in a situation to accurately gague what's going on which lead to led to the question I'm the first place.

[HK 50]

Hmm.

VOTE: Geraintm

L1

[stungun0404]

Updated votes

Geraintm (5): stungun0404, bob3141, votato, Porkens, Dunnstral
Dunnstral (2): DoctorPepper, Malakittens

Porkens (2): Green Crayons, Not_Mafia

votato (2): farside22, notscience
notscience (1): geraintm
Not voting: HK50

EBWOP

[HK 50]

Hmm.

VOTE: Geraintm

L1

I'm also not going to be around deadline potentially, so this gives the chance to hammer if others are in the same boat.

Trash time. Brb

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: GeraintM

[stungun0404]

Good, I found a scum game of his I was reading here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11502149

Similarly, he stuck to an early RVS vote, but then eventually pushed a player that was town with a case that led to that townplayer's lynch. So he held back any other votes until he had that possible sticking gun.

I am happy with where this vote went, and hope he flips scum. Thanks nm for hammering!

[geraintm]

Well, that's annoying I guess. Bound to get lynched day 1 eventually. I dont apologise for my day 1 mehness.
Go town then I guess. I would suggest you look at how that wogon formed on me in the end.

[Porkens]

Another decent part of this is it will tell us something about GC I think

[stungun0404]

Gera, if you do happen to be town and see this thread before the Mod returns and posts, please do give us a final reads list if you can.

[farside22]

Good, I found a scum game of his I was reading here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11502149

Similarly, he stuck to an early RVS vote, but then eventually pushed a player that was town with a case that led to that townplayer's lynch. So he held back any other votes until he had that possible sticking gun.

I am happy with where this vote went, and hope he flips scum. Thanks nm for hammering!

I don't see why he wouldn't just fake claim as scum.
But what do I know.

[geraintm]

I knew at some point today that there was a risk I would get lynched, but I was happy with vanilla townie going than anyone important

[geraintm]

I would be looking at those who jumped to the wagon once it got going. As I said, stun I just have as the type of player who I cannot get along with and rile up to them voting me. They may be scum, but I think toen. The rest of you....if you are town then you need to work out how you get pressured into voting for me.

I didnt jump onto the porkens wagon to get that one finished off instead of me, I didnt read them as scum.

[geraintm]

Good, I found a scum game of his I was reading here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11502149

Similarly, he stuck to an early RVS vote, but then eventually pushed a player that was town with a case that led to that townplayer's lynch. So he held back any other votes until he had that possible sticking gun.

I am happy with where this vote went, and hope he flips scum. Thanks nm for hammering!

I don't see why he wouldn't just fake claim as scum.
But what do I know.

Other people in this game have seen me run up close to a lynch as town, and I didnt flinch then and flail around and try and get a wagon started. I wasnt going to start now.

Day 1s suck, townies suck in them and they dont help town win.

[stungun0404]

Geraintm, i think from my perspective it didn't look like you were scumhunting, and I didn't like a lot of the theories that came off as anti-town to me based off my experiences, so I would just suggest to be careful if you are town here in future games to make sure your theories can't be interpreted as anti-town (such as the no lynch).

I am looking at those who simply followed up on me asking them next if you flip town, which would be in the pool of Porkens, HK. Porkens probably first needs to be looked at, especially with his scumreads of me, you, Bob, Dunn and Votato? Like 4 of those might flip town imo if that is the case.

Votato as a dark horse on your wagon.

[farside22]

Geraintm, i think from my perspective it didn't look like you were scumhunting, and I didn't like a lot of the theories that came off as anti-town to me based off my experiences, so I would just suggest to be careful if you are town here in future games to make sure your theories can't be interpreted as anti-town (such as the no lynch).

I am looking at those who simply followed up on me asking them next if you flip town, which would be in the pool of Porkens, HK. Porkens probably first needs to be looked at, especially with his scumreads of me, you, Bob, Dunn and Votato? Like 4 of those might flip town imo if that is the case.

Votato as a dark horse on your wagon.

Votato is scum in this game. You should learn to listen to others and not just your own views.
That's my 2 cent.