Open 781: JK9++ Game Over!

[Something_Smart]

So do you think it’s PP?

Most likely, yes.

[Bingle]

I think /think/ I’m okay with bingle winning if he didn’t use a role N2 and got fb to make the kill /just in case he was being tracked/

I would still like to attempt VCA with him though

There is no world in which JOAT me both didn't roleblock the claimed vig who suspected me AND didn't strongman the claimed vig when there was already a missed kill.

[Bingle]

Actually, that VCA kinda looks bad for monkeyman.

[PenguinPower]

So do you think it’s PP?

Most likely, yes.

[Bingle]

If A50 scum:

Bingle

[4]:

Menalque

,

PenguinPower

,

gobbledygook

,

Firebringer

,

Menalque

[3]:

skitter30

,

Datisi

,

Bingle

,

PenguinPower

[3]:

Blake Belladonna

,

lilith2013

,

MariaR

,

Not Voting [3]:

Something_Smart

,

Pink Ball

,

Almost50

,
-------------------------------------

gobbledygook

[5]:

Bingle

,

Datisi

,

PenguinPower

,

Menalque

,

MariaR

, [L-2]

Bingle

[2]:

Firebringer

,

gobbledygook

,

PenguinPower

[2]:

Blake Belladonna

,

lilith2013

,

MariaR

[1]:

skitter30

,

Not Voting [3]:

Something_Smart

,

Pink Ball

,

Almost50

,
-------------------------------------

gobbledygook

[4]:

Bingle

,

Datisi

,

Menalque

,

Pink Ball

,

MariaR

[2]:

gobbledygook

,

skitter30

,

skitter30

[2]:

Blake Belladonna

,

MariaR

,

Something_Smart

[1]:

Firebringer

,

PenguinPower

[1]:

lilith2013

,

Menalque

[1]:

PenguinPower

,

Not Voting [2]:

Something_Smart

,

Almost50

,
-------------------------------------

gobbledygook

[7]:

Datisi

,

Pink Ball

,

Something_Smart

,

MariaR

,

lilith2013

,

Firebringer

,

Almost50

, — HAMMER

Something_Smart

[2]:

gobbledygook

,

Bingle

,

PenguinPower

[2]:

Blake Belladonna

,

Menalque

,

MariaR

[1]:

skitter30

,

Not Voting [1]:

PenguinPower

,
-------------------------------------

lilith2013

[4]:

Menalque

,

Almost50

,

PenguinPower

,

Blake Belladonna

, -- [L-2]

Something_Smart

[2]:

skitter30

,

Firebringer

,

Not Voting [5]:

Bingle

,

MariaR

,

Something_Smart

,

lilith2013

,

Datisi

,
-------------------------------------

lilith2013

[4]:

Menalque

,

Almost50

,

PenguinPower

,

Blake Belladonna

, -- [L-2]

Something_Smart

[3]:

skitter30

,

Firebringer

,

Bingle

,

Not Voting [4]:

MariaR

,

Something_Smart

,

lilith2013

,

Datisi

,
-------------------------------------

MariaR

[3]:

skitter30

,

Almost50

,

Datisi

,

lilith2013

[2]:

MariaR

,

PenguinPower

,

Something_Smart

[2]:

Firebringer

,

Bingle

,

Firebringer

[1]:

Blake Belladonna

,

Not Voting [3]:

Something_Smart

,

lilith2013

,

Menalque

,
-------------------------------------

MariaR

[4]:

skitter30

,

Almost50

,

Datisi

,

Menalque

, -- [L-2]

lilith2013

[2]:

MariaR

,

PenguinPower

,

Something_Smart

[2]:

Firebringer

,

Bingle

,

Firebringer

[1]:

Blake Belladonna

,

Blake Belladonna

[1]:

lilith2013

,

Not Voting [1]:

Something_Smart

,
-------------------------------------

lilith2013

[5]:

PenguinPower

,

Blake Belladonna

,

MariaR

,

Almost50

,

skitter30

, — [L-1]

MariaR

[2]:

Datisi

,

Menalque

,

Something_Smart

[1]:

Firebringer

,

Blake Belladonna

[1]:

lilith2013

,

Not Voting [2]:

Something_Smart

,

Bingle

,
-------------------------------------

lilith2013

[6]:

PenguinPower

,

MariaR

,

Almost50

,

Bingle

,

Firebringer

,

Menalque

, — HAMMER

MariaR

[1]:

Datisi

,

Blake Belladonna

[1]:

lilith2013

,

Firebringer

[1]:

Blake Belladonna

,

Not Voting [2]:

Something_Smart

,

skitter30

,
-------------------------------------

[Bingle]

If A50 scum:

Bingle

[4]:

Menalque

,

PenguinPower

,

gobbledygook

,

Firebringer

,

Menalque

[3]:

skitter30

,

Datisi

,

Bingle

,

PenguinPower

[3]:

Blake Belladonna

,

lilith2013

,

MariaR

,

Not Voting [3]:

Something_Smart

,

Pink Ball

,

Almost50

,
-------------------------------------

gobbledygook

[5]:

Bingle

,

Datisi

,

PenguinPower

,

Menalque

,

MariaR

, [L-2]

Bingle

[2]:

Firebringer

,

gobbledygook

,

PenguinPower

[2]:

Blake Belladonna

,

lilith2013

,

MariaR

[1]:

skitter30

,

Not Voting [3]:

Something_Smart

,

Pink Ball

,

Almost50

,
-------------------------------------

gobbledygook

[4]:

Bingle

,

Datisi

,

Menalque

,

Pink Ball

,

MariaR

[2]:

gobbledygook

,

skitter30

,

skitter30

[2]:

Blake Belladonna

,

MariaR

,

Something_Smart

[1]:

Firebringer

,

PenguinPower

[1]:

lilith2013

,

Menalque

[1]:

PenguinPower

,

Not Voting [2]:

Something_Smart

,

Almost50

,
-------------------------------------

gobbledygook

[7]:

Datisi

,

Pink Ball

,

Something_Smart

,

MariaR

,

lilith2013

,

Firebringer

,

Almost50

, — HAMMER

Something_Smart

[2]:

gobbledygook

,

Bingle

,

PenguinPower

[2]:

Blake Belladonna

,

Menalque

,

MariaR

[1]:

skitter30

,

Not Voting [1]:

PenguinPower

,
-------------------------------------

lilith2013

[4]:

Menalque

,

Almost50

,

PenguinPower

,

Blake Belladonna

, -- [L-2]

Something_Smart

[2]:

skitter30

,

Firebringer

,

Not Voting [5]:

Bingle

,

MariaR

,

Something_Smart

,

lilith2013

,

Datisi

,
-------------------------------------

lilith2013

[4]:

Menalque

,

Almost50

,

PenguinPower

,

Blake Belladonna

, -- [L-2]

Something_Smart

[3]:

skitter30

,

Firebringer

,

Bingle

,

Not Voting [4]:

MariaR

,

Something_Smart

,

lilith2013

,

Datisi

,
-------------------------------------

MariaR

[3]:

skitter30

,

Almost50

,

Datisi

,

lilith2013

[2]:

MariaR

,

PenguinPower

,

Something_Smart

[2]:

Firebringer

,

Bingle

,

Firebringer

[1]:

Blake Belladonna

,

Not Voting [3]:

Something_Smart

,

lilith2013

,

Menalque

,
-------------------------------------

MariaR

[4]:

skitter30

,

Almost50

,

Datisi

,

Menalque

, -- [L-2]

lilith2013

[2]:

MariaR

,

PenguinPower

,

Something_Smart

[2]:

Firebringer

,

Bingle

,

Firebringer

[1]:

Blake Belladonna

,

Blake Belladonna

[1]:

lilith2013

,

Not Voting [1]:

Something_Smart

,
-------------------------------------

lilith2013

[5]:

PenguinPower

,

Blake Belladonna

,

MariaR

,

Almost50

,

skitter30

, — [L-1]

MariaR

[2]:

Datisi

,

Menalque

,

Something_Smart

[1]:

Firebringer

,

Blake Belladonna

[1]:

lilith2013

,

Not Voting [2]:

Something_Smart

,

Bingle

,
-------------------------------------

lilith2013

[6]:

PenguinPower

,

MariaR

,

Almost50

,

Bingle

,

Firebringer

,

Menalque

, — HAMMER

MariaR

[1]:

Datisi

,

Blake Belladonna

[1]:

lilith2013

,

Firebringer

[1]:

Blake Belladonna

,

Not Voting [2]:

Something_Smart

,

skitter30

,
-------------------------------------

[Menalque]

Bingle, recap me again on why S_S can’t be scum

[Menalque]

Because if it can’t be be S_S then it’s literally GG and the final scum is in A50/PP

[Bingle]

Bingle, recap me again on why S_S can’t be scum

If SS is scum, he was run up simultaneously with one of his scumbuddies, was softbussed by the other scumbuddy as the sole scum PR, and none of the scumteam voted MariaR when she cropped up as the alternative to two scum lynches.

[Bingle]

Also there a thing a long time ago where SS seemed to be trying to derail the gobbles lynch onto Firebringer that I thought might make them not scum together.

[Bingle]

like they see their partners are doing x, so they throw shade on the people not doing x to validate what their partners are doing, if that makes sense

Yeah, that's kinda what I thought you were getting at.

Softdefending gobbles and simultaneously casting shade at the other people soft defending gobbles to hedge his bets against the wagon shifting to a scumbuddy. I think the inverse conclusion (SS is not scum with Skitter/FB/I think there was one more person doing that) is more reliable, though.

[Almost50]

VOTE: Bingle

Just to make a statement. I acknowledge the loss already and congratulate you on yet another scum!win over me.

@Menalque: JFTR, PP doesn't block you and shoot BB here, and especially not when you have announced being on him. Instead, PP would hust stay put and holster, thus implicating Maria. The RB on you was done precisely to prevent a hrd clear on PP when somebody does die.

Now I dunno why Bingle didn't think of THAT. He probably wanted the game to end faster?? I dunno. All I know is (1) if you do the VCA assuming Bingle is red it makes MUCH more sense than with the assumption PP is red, (2) Bingle is back to his favourite hobby: shake "monkeyman" just before LyLo. Did you notice how he has been TRing me ALL game, only to come TODAY to the conclusion my voting pattern looks bad?? And (3) Bingle already said if it was me, PP & him in LyLo that he will convince me to vote PP to make it equal. I -and PP- know exactly what he is referring to, but -also- it was a "soft scum claim" to refer to in post-game when he goes "nya nya nya, I pulled yet another one on you two, and especially on A50".

I was going to stay silent and let you guys mislynch whoever you wanted today and then vote Bingle in LyLo, but with your declaration you are OK handing Bingle the win I am afraid he may lynch PP and kill S_S using the Ninja shot and have you side by him in LyLo.

I suggest I should be the lynch today if all 3 of you vow to lynch Bingle in LyLo after I have been confirmed. That is my one and only request.

[PenguinPower]

Oh dear gods it’s happening again.

[PenguinPower]

Also, scary that A50 knows me that well.

[Almost50]

There is no world in which JOAT me both didn't roleblock the claimed vig who suspected me AND didn't strongman the claimed vig when there was already a missed kill.

There is no world where I would take your argument here seriously. You

knew

skitter wasn't going to shoot YOU. Even if you expected her to shoot FB he was a burden AND he was not afraid of hopping on your wagon at anytime, so you knew his vote (your own partner's vote) couldn't be relied on. You sent FB to shoot skitter as he was going to be your bus target next if he wasn't shot at that night anyway. You knew Menalque was Tracker and deliberately played obtuse assuming he might be JK, but that was ALSO a mistake, because you TMI'd (and I know nobody else would see it my way) in expressing knowledge we had a JK AND a TRACKER. How do you know we had a JK? THAT is wjere the N1 Scum N1 went. It was blocked. I don't even remember if BB crumbed her targets, so I may go reread her ISO, but you KNEW we had a JK in-play is my point.

[Bingle]

@Menalque: JFTR, PP doesn't block you and shoot BB here, and especially not when you have announced being on him. Instead, PP would hust stay put and holster, thus implicating Maria. The RB on you was done precisely to prevent a hrd clear on PP when somebody does die.

This is objectively wrong, A50.

Holstering gets maria lynched, sure, but it also gives us an additional mislynch. And there's still a clear on whatever night Blake and Mena both act.

[Almost50]

@PP: Bingle is setting us BOTH as suspects to pit us against each other in LyLo. Of course, Bingle is not stupid AND is accounting for the possibility one of us is today's lynch and he'd have to deal with S_S in LyLo instead. I am leaving Maria out of this because she is confirmed and Bingle now has an even bigger problem because he needs to kill her AND Menalque, but then Menalque is falling for Bingle's plit and may be an asset for him in LyLo.

Note: You can change LyLo to MyLo I guess, which -I think- works even better for Bingle because he can find out who is showing more tendency to go with him. I guess the plan is to try and mislynch someone in MyLo, or to end the day with a No Lynch after having gauged consensus and decided whom to throw out of the arena for his plan to work.

[Bingle]

There is no world where I would take your argument here seriously. You knew skitter wasn't going to shoot YOU. Even if you expected her to shoot FB he was a burden AND he was not afraid of hopping on your wagon at anytime, so you knew his vote (your own partner's vote) couldn't be relied on. You sent FB to shoot skitter as he was going to be your bus target next if he wasn't shot at that night anyway. You knew Menalque was Tracker and deliberately played obtuse assuming he might be JK, but that was ALSO a mistake, because you TMI'd (and I know nobody else would see it my way) in expressing knowledge we had a JK AND a TRACKER. How do you know we had a JK? THAT is wjere the N1 Scum N1 went. It was blocked. I don't even remember if BB crumbed her targets, so I may go reread her ISO, but you KNEW we had a JK in-play is my point.

:thorface:

The argument here is that on N2, I had a hard tracker read on Mena, had a soul read that a kill would go through on skitter despite a missing kill the night before, and knew skitter wouldn't vig me after:

{a50}
{mena}
{ss}
{dats, blake}
{pp}
{lilith} - idk/null
{mariar, fire, bingle}

i'd want someone in the last tier vigged, and there's absolutely scum in my townreads, i think

I'm good, monkey. I can't see the future.

[Almost50]

@Menalque: JFTR, PP doesn't block you and shoot BB here, and especially not when you have announced being on him. Instead, PP would hust stay put and holster, thus implicating Maria. The RB on you was done precisely to prevent a hrd clear on PP when somebody does die.

This is objectively wrong, A50.

Holstering gets maria lynched, sure, but it also gives us an additional mislynch. And there's still a clear on whatever night Blake and Mena both act.

That would be true from YOUR PoV, but PP isn't you and does not think the way YOU do.

Anyway, you win. I have not enough confidence in others to see it my way, but I KNOW Town!You NEVER syays something like

Actually, that VCA kinda looks bad for monkeyman.

After having said

I don't see a world in which I ever vote SS or A50 this game.

Your KNOW PP is going to flip green, and you are keeping your options open by retracting your own statement there, because if you would never vote me/S_S and both Menalque and Maria are confirmed that only leaves YOU as JOAT. Right?

[Almost50]

The argument here is that on N2, I had a hard tracker read on Mena, had a soul read that a kill would go through on skitter despite a missing kill the night before, and knew skitter wouldn't vig me after:

Well, we all knew skitter wasn't going to shoot you. If you asked me beforehand whom she was going to shoot I would have told you with much confidence it was in S_S/FB with a very low chance of a holster. skitter NEVER shoots you unless she is SURE you are scum because she knows you are also an asset as town.

The missing kill on N1 told you there was a JK/Doctor in play, and if you had deduced somehow that it's a JK then it follows skitter would have NEVER been the target, because that would BLOCK her shot too. What JK blocks a claimed Vig??

In case of a Doctor it would have been a bit more WIFOMy, since the Doctor would know skitter's the obvious protection, so may go for the same one they pretected on N1.

I dunno if you "hard" read Menalque as Tracker, but you suspected him to be at the very least. I know I had him figured for "one of 4 possible PRs", but I just didn't know which one myself.

[Almost50]

Btw, 6147 bottom quote is misleading because skitter would NOT shoot you in that case EVEN IF she was sure you were scum, because she was AFRAID OF THE BUSDRIVER. Like, if you had any chance of being Town she wouldn't shoot you, and if she knew you were scum she still wouldn't shoot you because she would know that if a BD existed they'd switch you with someone you wanted dead.

[Almost50]

Like, why do you think she shot FB over you/Maria, assuming you were all equally likely scum to her? it's because FB was the least likely to be Busdriven (in fact, no chance of that happening because the BD is one-shot anyway, and it wouldn't be wasted saving someone who was likely to be lynched the very next day if they survived the night)

[MariaR]

I’m genuinely so annoyed I had to be cleared this game. Although I’m not surprised just disappointed.

[MariaR]

I’ll come back when I don’t want to just slump my head into my desk but atm I’m prob voting SS

[Menalque]

I’ll come back when I don’t want to just slump my head into my desk but atm I’m prob voting SS

Hmm, how come? I think that may be the wrong choice if we only have 2 lynches left, and if it is you can always choose S_S tomorrow if you’re that certain that penguin is town