Newbie 2012 - Game Over

[Ydrasse]

@jt: also, i want clarification on this: do you not have any townreads at all?

[TheThirteenthJT]

321 looks like an attempt to keep options open and tread on eggshells. It contains a null list and a list described as "I've seen strong town points/reasons but at times felt something off and having a hard time pinpointing". Since this second group is JT's second tier of suspects I think it's interesting that he chose to describe them in such a neutral way.

Next I got called out on asking for reads of myself as being scummy but also in post 57 he asks 72 for his reads on himself, Ydrasse and me.

It is 100% clear from context why those things are different, and since you were doing a reread and I am your biggest scumread I don't believe you could have missed it.

Leaving that aside: you are accusing me of being scummy for doing something, while saying that the very same thing is not scummy when you do it. Either you think the read asking point is scummy or you don't, you can't only think so when it suits you. There is no way this can be a genuine point.

Post 121 and 128 are what really strike me here. He groups himself with DrPepper and states I've been avoiding their posts besides my original post. This was posted a time that gave me no time to respond to some of the latest posts so it seemed opportunistic. He also stated that him and DrPepper had contributed more to the thread but his only posts at the time had been about the Italiano situation. I call him out on this and he changes his point.

You will have noticed that I said this was a misread. I can only imagine that choosing to persist with it is deliberate.

Re: the early Italiano push. I still think it was correct. The mod-vote was the most suspicious thing in the game at that point and pushing it did get the game going.

What I was stating with that point was simply, if thats a scum point for other players, I have not been the only one to do it. Do I presonally find it scummy? 50/50 The context is important. The same point may or may not apply to separate situations. Nothing is in a vacuum in this game. Did you ever explain why you asked?

And me calling out Italiano to give me his read on me was also explained previously. I felt it was an inderect buddy attempt that would be called out by someone else had I not done because of my defence for him. I also asked for walter because he was the only other player left out of his reads besides me.

You stated you misread my point on Italianos bold play. 121 and 128 were not related to that.

[TheThirteenthJT]

He came back into the game with very weak posts, that is undeniable, but I dont necessary see it as scummy. I see it almost as a bit of disinterest.

why do you assume the disinterest isn't indicative? I think most players, as town, have interest in lynching correctly and influencing the thread in the direction they want. I think scum are more likely not to want to rock the boat or do too much, and make safe/bland posts on entry. 72offsuit also made a meta argument that DoctorPepper is makes weaker posts as scum.

Maybe because I foundd myself in a similar boat a few days ago. I was tired irl which was translating to my game. DRpepper has stated that he has had a rough week. I see him currently as a tired person who needs a few days of rest to be able to get back into the game. Also in regards to meta.

This is a newbie, and with newbie games come the misconception of "scum want to push easy mislynches". The last newbie game I played, I won as scum not by pushing for mislynches but because I intentionally stayed under the radar. I hard defended the day 1 mislynch, knowing full well that it will flip town. The rest of the mislynches I joined but I never drove the wagon, I found flimsy reasons to do it. So Italiano, while I don't think it automatically means you're scummy, it's odd that you're painting it as such because I am pushing for your mislynch

I mean I agree, being reactionary and painting a target on your back isn't a good way to play scum. That doesn't necessarily mean that you won't do it.
In fact that's weird that you're scum reading people just because they're voting you. If either of us were scum, why did we single you out as the mislynch of the day?

I just find it hard to buy he would flat out tells how he played as scum and then just do it. Maybe so but if thats the case props to him for fooling me.

[TheThirteenthJT]

@jt: also, i want clarification on this: do you not have any townreads at all?

You should know this better than everyone else why i dont give out Townreads day one. (You may hvae even called me out on this last game.) Last game I had no townreads Day one and Day 2 I had one, Poyzin who was scum and I was very against lynching. That is a perfect example of why I dont like townreading people.

And I was a mason there so even Knowing BM was town, I didnt give out reads.

[72offsuit]

Spoiler:

Votecount 1.03

TheThirteenthJT (3) -

GuiltyLion, Ydrasse, 72offsuit

ItalianoVD (2) -

DoctorPepper, UNOwen

UNOwen (2) -

ItalianoVD, TheThirteenthJT

Ydrasse (1) -

WaltertheDunce10

Not Voting (1) -

piisirrational

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-06-28 20:00:00).

DoctorPepper is V/LA until 6/21.

Votecount 1.04

ItalianoVD (3) -

DoctorPepper, UNOwen, GuiltyLion

TheThirteenthJT (2) -

Ydrasse, 72offsuit

UNOwen (2) -

TheThirteenthJT, ItalianoVD

72offsuit (1) -

WaltertheDunce10

Not Voting (1) -

piisirrational

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-06-28 20:00:00).

DoctorPepper is V/LA until 6/21.

Sera Masumi replaces piisirrational.

Votecount 1.05

ItalianoVD (3) -

DoctorPepper, UNOwen, Ydrasse

UNOwen (2) -

TheThirteenthJT, ItalianoVD

Sera Masumi (2) -

GuiltyLion, WaltertheDunce10

TheThirteenthJT (1) -

72offsuit

Not Voting (1) -

Sera Masumi

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-06-28 20:00:00).

DoctorPepper is V/LA until 6/22.

Votecount 1.06

ItalianoVD (2) -

UNOwen, Ydrasse

UNOwen (2) -

TheThirteenthJT, ItalianoVD

Sera Masumi (2) -

GuiltyLion, WaltertheDunce10

TheThirteenthJT (1) -

72offsuit

WaltertheDunce10 (1) -

DoctorPepper

Not Voting (1) -

Sera Masumi

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-06-28 20:00:00).

DoctorPepper is V/LA until 6/22.

Votecount 1.07

UNOwen (2) -

TheThirteenthJT, ItalianoVD

Sera Masumi (2) -

GuiltyLion, WaltertheDunce10

TheThirteenthJT (2) -

72offsuit, UNOwen

ItalianoVD (1) -

Ydrasse

WaltertheDunce10 (1) -

DoctorPepper

Not Voting (1) -

Sera Masumi

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-06-28 20:00:00).

Prodding Sera Masumi.

Votecount 1.08

UNOwen (2) -

TheThirteenthJT, ItalianoVD

Sera Masumi (2) -

GuiltyLion, WaltertheDunce10

TheThirteenthJT (2) -

72offsuit, UNOwen

ItalianoVD (1) -

Ydrasse

WaltertheDunce10 (1) -

DoctorPepper

Not Voting (1) -

Sera Masumi

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-06-28 20:00:00).

Prodding DoctorPepper.

Votecount 1.08

TheThirteenthJT (3) -

72offsuit, UNOwen, GuiltyLion

UNOwen (2) -

TheThirteenthJT, ItalianoVD

MiniMegabyte (1) -

WaltertheDunce10

ItalianoVD (1) -

Ydrasse

WaltertheDunce10 (1) -

DoctorPepper

Not Voting (1) -

MiniMegabyte

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-06-28 20:00:00).

TheThirteenthJT is V/LA until 6/27.

Votecount 1.09

TheThirteenthJT (3) -

UNOwen, GuiltyLion, MiniMegabyte

UNOwen (2) -

TheThirteenthJT, ItalianoVD

MiniMegabyte (1) -

WaltertheDunce10

ItalianoVD (1) -

Ydrasse

WaltertheDunce10 (1) -

DoctorPepper

DoctorPepper (1) -

72offsuit

Not Voting (0) -

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-06-28 20:00:00).

TheThirteenthJT is V/LA until 6/27.

[72offsuit]

DP votes Walter in 242

[Ydrasse]

@jt: also, i want clarification on this: do you not have any townreads at all?

You should know this better than everyone else why i dont give out Townreads day one. (You may hvae even called me out on this last game.) Last game I had no townreads Day one and Day 2 I had one, Poyzin who was scum and I was very against lynching. That is a perfect example of why I dont like townreading people.

And I was a mason there so even Knowing BM was town, I didnt give out reads.

that's fair. i asked only because your play feels like, opportunistic? in the sense that if you don't have any townreads and instead have this weird null/"town but off sometimes" list in place of it you're in a position where you can pick and choose where to push because you haven't committed much to any reads.

but you've explained a bit more now at least and tbh i wasn't thinking a lot about your previous play.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I actually disagree a little with you here. I have stated my stronger reads. With the energy I had that's were I needed to focus. I felt like I've been 50/50 between scumhunting and having to defend myself this game. To the best of my ability I've questioned players when something has seemed off and have pushed my highest reads throughout. Claiming I had stronger reads on players I didn't would have been a lie. I do hope my last post to Walter clarified my reads a little as to the main driving force of why they landed were they did.

My hardest two reads this game are 72 and GuityLiOn. If we are blind sided it's from one of these two. Bit like I said not Day 1 Iynches for me. This in rankings of blindside is Ydrasse. Again I know you've probably been busy but I just haven't felt as strong of game from you as previous ones.

[72offsuit]

UNO switches votes from IVD to TTJT in 297

[72offsuit]

TTJT switches votes from UNO to Walter in 416

[72offsuit]

I'm wondering why !scum TTJT wouldnt vote for mini

[72offsuit]

If its !scumDP and !scumTTJT

[72offsuit]

Why would they both vote for Walter, when its unlikely walter will be lynched?

[72offsuit]

I'd probably bet the game on Italiano, 72offsuit, and UNOwen being town

Ydrasse and Walter are town most of the time, but I'd be thinking if I'm getting snowed by scum, they're more likely than the first three.

MiniMegabyte is a tossup, but I stand by their doubling down on not having any scumreads outside of TTJT as being loosely town-indicative.

Which leaves TTJT/DoctorPepper which I think is the team. We have TTJT at 3 votes and DocPepper at 2, I don't see a point of switching right at this moment, but happy to go with DocPep if UNOWen/Walter prefer to go there.

This doesnt make any sense to me ^

[Ydrasse]

I actually disagree a little with you here. I have stated my stronger reads. With the energy I had that's were I needed to focus. I felt like I've been 50/50 between scumhunting and having to defend myself this game. To the best of my ability I've questioned players when something has seemed off and have pushed my highest reads throughout. Claiming I had stronger reads on players I didn't would have been a lie. I do hope my last post to Walter clarified my reads a little as to the main driving force of why they landed were they did.

My hardest two reads this game are 72 and GuityLiOn. If we are blind sided it's from one of these two. Bit like I said not Day 1 Iynches for me. This in rankings of blindside is Ydrasse. Again I know you've probably been busy but I just haven't felt as strong of game from you as previous ones.

i think that, like i said, you've clarified which gives me more context as to why you're approaching this as you are. i think it's a similar issue i had last game where i don't Like It, the same way i didn't like how MT approached reading people. it seems counter-intuitive to how i like to approach things and in conjunction with the earlier qualms i had it stuck out to me.

and that's fair, i've not been putting in as much energy as i could and i'm trying to rectify it now with the free time that i have.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm wondering why !scum TTJT wouldnt vote for mini

Why would they both vote for Walter, when its unlikely walter will be lynched?

eh actually that's a fair point

I think TTJT's vote for Walter doesn't make a lot of sense in general to me. Like you said, it's unlikely Walter will be lynched. I didn't vibe with the case, I think TTJT just summarized a lot of Walter's play but didn't actually do the legwork of why he thinks Walter is scum outside of "afraid to lead wagons". And I got the sense TTJT is avoiding the DoctorPepper wagon. That's why I thought the associative made sense, but it is a good question why scum!TTJT doesn't just vote Mini there.

[GuiltyLion]

Anyone care to explain TTJT as scum? I'm kinda town reading their posts because the UNOwen analysis makes sense to me

yeh I guess this is also unlikely from scum!DocPep with scum!TTJT

VOTE: Doctor Pepper

[72offsuit]

Hmmm

[72offsuit]

Anyone care to explain TTJT as scum? I'm kinda town reading their posts because the UNOwen analysis makes sense to me

yeh I guess this is also unlikely from scum!DocPep with scum!TTJT

VOTE: Doctor Pepper

Yes. If DP is scum then TTJT is town.

[72offsuit]

Off that post alone

[72offsuit]

No scum player invites town to present a case against their scum partner.

[72offsuit]

Its the sort of line !scumDP points to after !town TTJT is lynched

"Hey, i told u he wasnt scummy, those on his wagon are scum!"

[TheThirteenthJT]

Why would I do mini over Walter? I don't see a convincing enough case there and don't see a justifiable one on Walter being town. Like I said I would only do mini as a last second if we have to Lynch someone. We are close but there's enough time for them to maybe post content? While with Walter they've had all Day 1 to do the same.

And do you guys think DP would have been so open about his meta. Cause that's clearly what he stated he did is scum. Lie low and oppose the biggest townplayer wagon.

[DoctorPepper]

I'm currently re reading the game but I have this huge inkling *shocker* that my wagon is scum motivated. And a lot of flimsy reasons are being thrown around.

I really dislike post 446. For one, that's a complete misrep of my meta statement of lying low and defending the wagon. I dislike meta but to prove my point, in Newbie 2000 (also modded by Micc, you sly dog) I actively DEFENDED the biggest wagon and made sure to stay away from it. As in my posting was really there to drive home the point that I believed their claims and I made it so adamant that it was a mistake lynching them.

Here? I legitimately asked a question. A question of why this player is scum because if you haven't noticed, I haven't been reading the game and I wanted to know why TTJT was the wagon.

[DoctorPepper]

As irresponsible as this sounds, I'm not really super concerned with my lynch if town wants to make that mistake

I don't know, this last post here makes me feel uneasy about voting for DoctorPepper now. What is everyone else's thoughts about it? Scum

could

say it's a "mistake", but how likely?

Surely scum

would

say it's a mistake, unless they were throwing in the towel completely. Could you explain what you mean by "how likely"?

Don't treat this as Alignment Indicative. Tired DP would be tired and demotivated regardless if he was town or scum.