Newbie 2012 - Game Over

[DoctorPepper]

Same, I hope you have a good night Jt
72 definitely does not come off so great off of the lynch if jt is town
.

Even if JT is scum this is bad

[ItalianoVD]

Huh? I see a lot has happened. I was expecting 72 to be the one getting the votes. I was certain Walter was gonna vote for him since he had suspicions of him earlier. Voting for TTJT was kind of weird for me. And after 72’s move onto TTJT I have to assume JT is town because if 72 is scum it would be extremely dumb to bus your partner when you didn’t have to. Unless neither of them are scum. I don’t know what to think now. I wish it was as easy and JT flips scum, but if not I don’t see why we shouldn’t/wouldn’t vote for 72 on Day 2. That’s who I expected to go anyway. Ehh.

[ItalianoVD]

Had I said this someone would have said this was scum motivated.

This was my main reason for reading you the way I did, because you weren’t saying anything. Had you said this earlier I know I would have felt better about you. I think you mentioned this too late. You were saying that you felt at least one scum was experienced, but you didn’t want to vote for any of the experienced players. Sorry if you flip town, but I think we have a pretty good town atmosphere here so the scum will eventually be caught because we seem to be working together somewhat.

[ItalianoVD]

Suddenly TTJT's top scumreads are the top 2 wagons.
Yeah nah.

VOTE: TTJT

You can’t tell me that you weren’t aware of the vote count. That just doesn’t make sense to me.

[ItalianoVD]

Lol. Nice so im scum either way. Fits nicely with your tunnel

At best you’re bad townie, so either way it’s not a help to the town.

[UNOwen]

Well there are many variables to how things can go down. People can have quick turnarounds when wanting to join a wagon. They can go from defending a player to turn on them quick for various reasons. Sometimes when you have suspicions on someone you want to make sure you know where they stand to see if som something can become suspicious turnaround or gradual. So while it's not likely that two scum off wagon would jump into to quicklynch a player, the possibility exists and you want to make sure you cover some ground so it's not so much of a blindside. There also chance that one town one scum or two town decide to quicklynch a player on accident or as a play and it comes out of nowhere.

I'm sorry I'm posting after waking up not too long ago so I hope I'm not jumbling too much and that I've answered your question. I just might not have much time to post later.

I'd consider something like that as good as a confession

, so I don't agree that it's a realistic possibility. Thank you for answering though.
When you get the chance I would appreciate an answer to my question in 162 as well.

Bolded holds regardless.

[UNOwen]

If JT isn't trolling then the partner is probably GuiltyLion.

[ItalianoVD]

i feel that dp had a lot more to lose from thunderdoming it out with 72 in this situation and i think that 72's response of "oh we can work this out you might not be scum" feels scummier than dp's conviction that 72 is scum. i think that dp became townier the longer it went on. 568 in particular is a good representation of this thought process.

i don't know if a scum!72 would hammer like that and try to pretend it was fake/accidental though, because that seems dumb as hell to do.

I’m wondering when you felt this because you voted for DoctorPepper. Whether it was before or after you voted for him doesn’t change anything.

[ItalianoVD]

If JT isn't trolling then the partner is probably GuiltyLion.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Well there are many variables to how things can go down. People can have quick turnarounds when wanting to join a wagon. They can go from defending a player to turn on them quick for various reasons. Sometimes when you have suspicions on someone you want to make sure you know where they stand to see if som something can become suspicious turnaround or gradual. So while it's not likely that two scum off wagon would jump into to quicklynch a player, the possibility exists and you want to make sure you cover some ground so it's not so much of a blindside. There also chance that one town one scum or two town decide to quicklynch a player on accident or as a play and it comes out of nowhere.

I'm sorry I'm posting after waking up not too long ago so I hope I'm not jumbling too much and that I've answered your question. I just might not have much time to post later.

I'd consider something like that as good as a confession

, so I don't agree that it's a realistic possibility. Thank you for answering though.
When you get the chance I would appreciate an answer to my question in 162 as well.

Bolded holds regardless.

Well hopefully it's that easy. There's something I'm thinking but I don't know if should say or not. I don't know if it would help or hurt the town so I might just have to let you guys figure it out tomorrow.

[72offsuit]

no, we're lynching 72 tomorrow, he's the one who hammered

^ That quick turnaround.

[Micc]

Votecount 1.13

TheThirteenthJT (5) -

UNOwen, MiniMegabyte, WaltertheDunce10, GuiltyLion, 72offsuit

72offsuit (3) -

DoctorPepper, ItalianoVD, TheThirteenthJT

DoctorPepper (1) -

Ydrasse

Not Voting (0) -

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to Eliminate.

An Elimination has been achieved.

[Micc]

TheThirteenthJT has been Eliminated Day 1. They were a

Vanilla Townie

.

It is now Night 1. The deadline for Night 1 is in (expired on 2020-06-30 11:10:00).

[Micc]

There were no deaths Night 1.

It is now Day 2.

Votecount 2.00

Not Voting (8) -

MiniMegabyte, WaltertheDunce10, ItalianoVD, UNOwen, Ydrasse, DoctorPepper, GuiltyLion, 72offsuit

With 8 players alive it takes 5 votes to Eliminate.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2020-07-07 13:05:00).

[GuiltyLion]

also i feel that if 72 is scum too gl just became a lot more of a likely partner and they could have coordinated that vote on a townie!jt.

if jt is scum i don't know what motivation a scum 72 has to hammer his partner though or even switch wagons like that when he's under a lot of scrutiny because dp is going to still go after him the next day.

If JT isn't trolling then the partner is probably GuiltyLion.

IMO both these twilight shades were ugly

I would like both of you to explain why exactly you think scum!GL and scum!72 have any kind of need to coordinate a quickhammer there. I know it may not mean much coming from me, but I believe scum quickhammers on D1 are tremendously bad play unless you're absolutely sure you've got the PR (even then, it's a gamble that can easily sink you), and I really don't see how you think TTJT was such an urgent need to remove that our hypothetical team would need to trash my good standing as well as 72's in order to secure THAT specific D1 mislynch.

i feel that dp had a lot more to lose from thunderdoming it out with 72 in this situation and i think that 72's response of "oh we can work this out you might not be scum" feels scummier than dp's conviction that 72 is scum. i think that dp became townier the longer it went on. 568 in particular is a good representation of this thought process.

i don't know if a scum!72 would hammer like that and try to pretend it was fake/accidental though, because that seems dumb as hell to do.

I’m wondering when you felt this because you voted for DoctorPepper. Whether it was before or after you voted for him doesn’t change anything.

This is also a really good question that I want Ydrasse to answer.

VOTE: 72offsuit

[GuiltyLion]

IMO either Mini is 72's partner and he felt the need to make a desperation Hail Mary turbohammer D1 because he knew the team was absolutely screwed if he got lynched D1

or 72's partner is in UNOwen/Ydrasse and they felt sufficiently set up for endgame already even with throwing him to the gallows today

It's possible we're in the first world (which I do kinda want out of vanity for my post 218 being spot on), but I'm going to need a lot of help today from Ydrasse/UNOwen each to help me see it without paranoia given how they played that twilight.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I agree gl
What do you make of the no deaths N1?
VOTE: 72offsuit

[GuiltyLion]

I think it rules out the mason setups and either a doctor saved DoctorPepper (IMO he's the easy choice for most likely NK there) or a JKer prevented the kill. Not sure if it's wise to speculate beyond that at this point, the main thing I'm taking from it is DocPep should be basically treated as conftown for today

[WaltertheDunce10]

I think it rules out the mason setups and either a doctor saved DoctorPepper (IMO he's the easy choice for most likely NK there) or a JKer prevented the kill. Not sure if it's wise to speculate beyond that at this point, the main thing I'm taking from it is DocPep should be basically treated as conftown for today

Alright.
I will keep that in mind.

[Ydrasse]

also i feel that if 72 is scum too gl just became a lot more of a likely partner and they could have coordinated that vote on a townie!jt.

if jt is scum i don't know what motivation a scum 72 has to hammer his partner though or even switch wagons like that when he's under a lot of scrutiny because dp is going to still go after him the next day.

If JT isn't trolling then the partner is probably GuiltyLion.

IMO both these twilight shades were ugly

I would like both of you to explain why exactly you think scum!GL and scum!72 have any kind of need to coordinate a quickhammer there. I know it may not mean much coming from me, but I believe scum quickhammers on D1 are tremendously bad play unless you're absolutely sure you've got the PR (even then, it's a gamble that can easily sink you), and I really don't see how you think TTJT was such an urgent need to remove that our hypothetical team would need to trash my good standing as well as 72's in order to secure THAT specific D1 mislynch.

i feel that dp had a lot more to lose from thunderdoming it out with 72 in this situation and i think that 72's response of "oh we can work this out you might not be scum" feels scummier than dp's conviction that 72 is scum. i think that dp became townier the longer it went on. 568 in particular is a good representation of this thought process.

i don't know if a scum!72 would hammer like that and try to pretend it was fake/accidental though, because that seems dumb as hell to do.

I’m wondering when you felt this because you voted for DoctorPepper. Whether it was before or after you voted for him doesn’t change anything.

This is also a really good question that I want Ydrasse to answer.

VOTE: 72offsuit

you have to understand fmpov how shady that hammer looked coming from 72, and fmpov it was a potential way for scum!72 to survive when votes started to pile up against him. it wasn't so much that jt was a threat but that it was the only option for self-preservation in that moment.

i said it made you more likely because i think that thing IS super easy to coordinate, and it could be easy for you as a scum player to get away with. "not my fault that this person voted after me" sort of thing, and the timing of when you two voted made me super antsy because of how close together it was. i recognize though that you aren't inherently scum because of it though, and it could also be 72 jumping on the vote without you being involved in it. i just can't not consider it.

and for doctorpepper, i still had misgivings in 552. he was jumping on people who were voting him, his activity came only after the pressure on him started, and he was ignoring things that i found weird to ignore in lieu of tunneling the people who were after him. and when i came back, jt was already hammered and i was reading in the context of 72 doing that. seeing 72 slap down a vote and then go "oops" made me realize how 72 had already tried to get out of going toe to toe with dp and as i stated, i thought that him doing that could've been a way to avoid getting lynched as scum. my read of dp flipped pretty fast after that.

VOTE: 72offsuit

[UNOwen]

IMO both these twilight shades were ugly

I would like both of you to explain why exactly you think scum!GL and scum!72 have any kind of need to coordinate a quickhammer there. I know it may not mean much coming from me, but I believe scum quickhammers on D1 are tremendously bad play unless you're absolutely sure you've got the PR (even then, it's a gamble that can easily sink you), and I really don't see how you think TTJT was such an urgent need to remove that our hypothetical team would need to trash my good standing as well as 72's in order to secure THAT specific D1 mislynch.

Well I wasn't thinking too deeply about it, just my initial reaction. Having considered I think my reaction was right though. 72 doesn't take that kind of risk unless he thinks his partner is well positioned to win the game, and my first instinct is that would be you. DoctorPepper is not worth considering. Italiano and Walter I think are town but I don't think they would fit anyway. Mini - not a chance. However Ydrasse is also a potential partner that didn't occur to me until rereading. Italiano raised a good point in 682, since at end of day Ydrasse seemed to be favouring DrP/JT as the scum team.

Basically 72 scum requires his partner to be either you or Ydrasse.

IMO either Mini is 72's partner and he felt the need to make a desperation Hail Mary turbohammer D1 because he knew the team was absolutely screwed if he got lynched D1

72's push against DrP was uneccessary from a scum perspective, unless he bought in to the "softing" talk in which case he was aggressively pr hunting. That's not a way to play when your partner is everyone's compromise lynch.

p-edit: not voting 72 yet in case he self-hammers

[ItalianoVD]

So this was the votecount before Walter, TheThirteenthJT, GuiltyLion, and 72 all made their final votes:

DoctorPepper (3)

- 72offsuit, Ydrasse, GuiltyLion,

TheThirteenthJT (2)

- UNOwen, MiniMegabyte

72offsuit (2)

- DoctorPepper, ItalianoVD

WaltertheDunce10 (1)

- TheThirteenthJT

Walter voted for TTJT, (which as I mentioned was a bit weird to me), and tied up the score between him and DoctorPepper @ 3.
TTJT then voted for 72 which made it a 3 way tie between himself, DoctorPepper, and 72.
That's when GuiltyLion broke the tie and voted for TTJT, which made the vote count:
TTJT(4)
72offsuit(3)
DoctorPepper(2)

I still don't understand how and why 72 would/could not have seen the votecount at the top of the page before hammering, but I have to say both moves onto TTJT look suspicious imo. I guess I'd be okay with a 72 lynch today, however I can't shake it that GuiltyLion was the one that broke the tie first and also pulled his vote away from DoctorPepper. If GuiltyLion and DoctorPepper are scum together it would make sense and the push onto 72 is a sham.

For the record when something is too easy in this game I have always questioned it and always will. I only have trust in myself at the moment. I know I townread the people I did and scumread the people I did, but I feel I need to throw all that out and start fresh. The worse thing I could do if believe that I'm not wrong on my reads. The final moments of Day 1 and the lack of a night kill makes me think this way.

I think it rules out the mason setups and either a doctor saved DoctorPepper (IMO he's the easy choice for most likely NK there) or a JKer prevented the kill. Not sure if it's wise to speculate beyond that at this point, the main thing I'm taking from it is DocPep should be basically treated as conftown for today

Why was DoctorPepper the easy choice for NK? Compared to yourself or myself or anyone else? And what gives us the impression that he be treated as confirmed town? Nothing shows that this is true. Unless I am missing it.

[GuiltyLion]

Why was DoctorPepper the easy choice for NK? Compared to yourself or myself or anyone else? And what gives us the impression that he be treated as confirmed town? Nothing shows that this is true. Unless I am missing it.

I'm working off the assumption(s) that 72 effectively scumclaimed with the pre-emptive hammer and that we're most likely going to lynch him today as a result.

it's certainly possible that I am wrong and someone else was targeted, but I feel the closest person to "clear town" on a 72 redflip is DocPep, so I think he's the most likely person to draw the NK last night.

I think it's healthy to check those assumptions, to a degree you are right to question it, but for right now I'm choosing to believe 72 is scum, DocPep is town, and thus building the framework for how I'm viewing the rest of the game from there today. If I'm wrong we'll likely know after another flip.

I need to think about the Ydrasse/UNOwen responses before getting to those

[ItalianoVD]

Yeah I get it, I just don’t like easy days. If 72 is scum, he has played this game very poorly imo. Oh well.

VOTE: 72offsuit

That is

L1

[GuiltyLion]

I guess I'd be okay with a 72 lynch today, however I can't shake it that GuiltyLion was the one that broke the tie first and also pulled his vote away from DoctorPepper.

also on this, my move to TTJT was motivated primarily because I really didn't like how he was dancing around both DocPep and 72 slots, it felt like he was noncommittal about making reads or votes on either of the slots in question. Also because we really needed to consolidate on a lynch at that point and at that point I was fine with any of the three, if anything I was starting to have some doubts about DocPep